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Pats

Pats

Veteran
allblackraven said:
I tend to agree. Talented but not yet at test level good. Also think our back line wasn't a great selection. Need that big bodied winger(s) and midfield and it's not like we don't have them. These dudes are easily brought down with defense not breaking a sweat.

What were they expecting from J. Barrett? Really lame selection. Our backup front row is better than starters, too. Too much experimenting cost us big time.
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Yeah the front rowers were basically garbage for NZ, and coles I think it was always on the wing is a bad sign seeing how he's a hooker. Should have went with beauden at 10, and a beefier center partnering.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
allblackraven said:
I tend to agree. Talented but not yet at test level good. Also think our back line wasn't a great selection. Need that big bodied winger(s) and midfield and it's not like we don't have them. These dudes are easily brought down with defense not breaking a sweat.

What were they expecting from J. Barrett? Really lame selection. Our backup front row is better than starters, too. Too much experimenting cost us big time.
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yeah im not gonna lie - nz team selection seemed to be about trying to matchup and overpower england upfront - but england have probably the best pack in the world right now 1 through 8 (+ subs)

and i dont remember ever being so unfearful of a all blacks backline than i was yesterday - goodhue probably had the best game of all 7 of them but he really didnt threaten much
 
Pats

Pats

Veteran
rossihunter2 said:
itll depend on the gameplan they come in with - everyone knows how england are going to play but if south africa can draw england into a slugfest then ill be worried
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Saffas are excellent at doing that, they can make every game ugly, and they have speed and power for days.
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Inqui said:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12280730
England fined for their haka response in the semi-final (for a few players crossing the halfway line). That's ridiculous.
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i mean i get why world rugby would do that (i think according to various codes etc. they have to but you can see from the size of the fine how little they care about the "infraction")

pretty sure the fine was only for the 1 or 2 england players who were over the halfway line

and you guys can probably educate me better on this but is it seen as disrespectful to put up a challenge in some form to the haka (in rugby terms)?

one of the things ive always liked is seeing crowds and opposing players put up a challenge be that in singing in the stands (like fields of athenry or the welsh national anthem) or even like england did or wales have done in the past and do something different to just standing there and 'taking it'

especially when it illicits a response - i remember the wales game where they fronted up and then got absolutely spanked by the all blacks

also love that youtube clip of the haka and the sipi tau going on opposite each other at the same time
 
allblackraven

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
rossihunter2 said:
i mean i get why world rugby would do that (i think according to various codes etc. they have to but you can see from the size of the fine how little they care about the "infraction")

pretty sure the fine was only for the 1 or 2 england players who were over the halfway line

and you guys can probably educate me better on this but is it seen as disrespectful to put up a challenge in some form to the haka (in rugby terms)?

one of the things ive always liked is seeing crowds and opposing players put up a challenge be that in singing in the stands (like fields of athenry or the welsh national anthem) or even like england did or wales have done in the past and do something different to just standing there and 'taking it'

especially when it illicits a response - i remember the wales game where they fronted up and then got absolutely spanked by the all blacks

also love that youtube clip of the haka and the sipi tau going on opposite each other at the same time
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You don't "put up" a challenge to haka. Haka is a challenge that the receiving side is supposed to accept. That's exactly what England did.
 
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Inqui

Inqui

Pro Bowler
rossihunter2 said:
i mean i get why world rugby would do that (i think according to various codes etc. they have to but you can see from the size of the fine how little they care about the "infraction")

pretty sure the fine was only for the 1 or 2 england players who were over the halfway line

and you guys can probably educate me better on this but is it seen as disrespectful to put up a challenge in some form to the haka (in rugby terms)?

one of the things ive always liked is seeing crowds and opposing players put up a challenge be that in singing in the stands (like fields of athenry or the welsh national anthem) or even like england did or wales have done in the past and do something different to just standing there and 'taking it'

especially when it illicits a response - i remember the wales game where they fronted up and then got absolutely spanked by the all blacks

also love that youtube clip of the haka and the sipi tau going on opposite each other at the same time
Click to expand...
I'm not super up with Maori culture (from a cultural standpoint the norm is probably to have the opposing chief/captain come forward to accept but it's a really broad issue and fwiw kapa o pango was specifically designed for the ABs), but the response is just as much a part of the haka itself. It's a challenge and a challenge warrants some kind of response. I wish more teams would do it, but World Rugby rules are pretty restrictive. There have been a few good ones, iirc it was the French some years ago who turned around.

Fwiw a Maori researcher doesn't think it's offensive from a cultural standpoint, nor does the bloke who made the All Blacks' haka what it is today. And the people I've seen over here who agreed with the fine only used the "it's the rules" argument (so no prizes for guessing where they stand on other issues...).
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12280290
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Inqui said:
I'm not super up with Maori culture (from a cultural standpoint the norm is probably to have the opposing chief/captain come forward to accept but it's a really broad issue and fwiw kapa o pango was specifically designed for the ABs), but the response is just as much a part of the haka itself. It's a challenge and a challenge warrants some kind of response. I wish more teams would do it, but World Rugby rules are pretty restrictive. There have been a few good ones, iirc it was the French some years ago who turned around.

Fwiw a Maori researcher doesn't think it's offensive from a cultural standpoint, nor does the bloke who made the All Blacks' haka what it is today. And the people I've seen over here who agreed with the fine only used the "it's the rules" argument (so no prizes for guessing where they stand on other issues...).
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12280290
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just thought id ask you guys just because you're closer to being knowledgeable on it than i am

but yeah my gut instinct was there's nothing wrong with it and if anything it honours the idea of the haka - what i will say and this might be why some teams dont do anything about it is that purely anecdotally it seems like previously when teams have done something to respond to the haka they've often been absolutely destroyed in the game that followed almost like its a reaction to the reaction lol
 
rossihunter2

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
on that note if england do win the world cup then this will be the defining image of their (and all nations except for japan's tournament)

GettyImages-1178221546-1024x570.jpg
 
mc_red23

mc_red23

Pro Bowler
One of the funny things is Joe Marler got confused and thought they were meant to circle the all blacks which is why he went so far past the half way line.

I've watched a game or two in the past where teams have marched right up to within touching distance of the Haka. I'm not sure if they ever got fined though.

Edit: Just checked, France were fined £2,500 back in 2011 for crossing the halfway line.

For anybody interested in reading it... https://deadspin.com/a-brief-history-of-rugby-teams-trying-to-respond-to-the-1796680563
 
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