The Good, The Bills, and the Peterman

[29BmoreBird22]

But, at the same time, I think maybe he DID want to throw it. If Brown wasn’t one of his first reads, why didn’t he throw to the wide open Crabtree in the middle of the field? Only reason for that would be Crabtree wasn’t open until after Joe looked at him, which is possible but I’m not so sure. I think they knew Brown would be wide open.

Like you said, Crabtree may not have been open at the time.

Reads, theoretically, should be boom, boom, boom. Really quick.

Like I said, that's generally a very dangerous throw and one I'd only make if it's wide open, like John Brown was.

 

[rossihunter2]

Just to jump in on the discussion, I'm not sure Joe wanted to throw across the field. That was, what, 28 yards(?) across the field? That's a good 40ish yards to throw the ball over A LOT of defenders. That's not something you want to do unless you have it wide open.

So, what am I saying? This was a really good play from Joe to make his first reads and work through his progressions to find John Brown so wide open on the other side of the field.

i dunno itll be easier to see from different angles but it looks to me like Joe instantly knew he was waiting for Brown to run an S route the whole way and the demeanour of the line and Joe and the way Hurst was setup to make a 2nd block on the adjusted pocket suggests to me the rollout was intentional - and as soon as Joe resets himself he's only looking towards Brown

and tbf i think part of that is that all day the Bills were giving Brown so much cushion that i think we knew Brown was most likely to find space

but its a crazy play design if it was truly a design

because its way more logical for Joe to have hit Crabtree - it was to the side of the field that was less risky and he came open around the time that ordinarily joe would have been looking for him

and also buck allen could have slipped out of the backfield and it would have been easy yardage to make it a more manageable 3rd down and distance (albeit still 3rd and fairly long) but none of those things were even remotely considered

 

[DeVito52]

Like you said, Crabtree may not have been open at the time.

Reads, theoretically, should be boom, boom, boom. Really quick.

Like I said, that's generally a very dangerous throw and one I'd only make if it's wide open, like John Brown was.

Nah. Go back and watch it again.

Crabtree was the first receiver open and he was open for a good while. Flacco quickly scans right to left and you can absolutely tell he wants to go to Brown the whole time. He looked at Brown before he even made his break, meanwhile Crab was wide open, and he knew where the ball was going the whole time.

 

[DeVito52]

i dunno itll be easier to see from different angles but it looks to me like Joe instantly knew he was waiting for Brown to run an S route the whole way and the demeanour of the line and Joe and the way Hurst was setup to make a 2nd block on the adjusted pocket suggests to me the rollout was intentional - and as soon as Joe resets himself he's only looking towards Brown

and tbf i think part of that is that all day the Bills were giving Brown so much cushion that i think we knew Brown was most likely to find space

but its a crazy play design if it was truly a design

because its way more logical for Joe to have hit Crabtree - it was to the side of the field that was less risky and he came open around the time that ordinarily joe would have been looking for him

and also buck allen could have slipped out of the backfield and it would have been easy yardage to make it a more manageable 3rd down and distance (albeit still 3rd and fairly long) but none of those things were even remotely considered

You’re spot on

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Nah. Go back and watch it again.

Crabtree was the first receiver open and he was open for a good while. Flacco quickly scans right to left and you can absolutely tell he wants to go to Brown the whole time. He looked at Brown before he even made his break, meanwhile Crab was wide open, and he knew where the ball was going the whole time.

I disagree. When Joe was looking at Crabtree, he still had a safety over the top and hadn't yet turned into his break. On the other hand, Brown was rounding out of his break and the corner was completely turned around.

There's little reason to want to throw across the field, adding potentially 15 yards more, into what could be double coverage, as your first read.

 

[DeVito52]

I disagree. When Joe was looking at Crabtree, he still had a safety over the top and hadn't yet turned into his break. On the other hand, Brown was rounding out of his break and the corner was completely turned around.

There's little reason to want to throw across the field, adding potentially 15 yards more, into what could be double coverage, as your first read.

The thing you’re not getting is that Crabtree’s route is not a quick one. 10/10 times he wouldn’t be open when you say Joe looked at him, he just simply wasn’t given enough time. So you’re saying Crabtree was Joes read when Crab wasn’t even halfway through his route? Joe turned to Brown right when he got set after the rollout and waited for Brown to finish his break. Joe only looked to the right because that’s where he was rolling, not because those were his first reads.

The play was for Brown. It was designed so Joe could roll out and have a lot of time for Brown to run his route.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

The thing you’re not getting is that Crabtree’s route is not a quick one. 10/10 times he wouldn’t be open when you say Joe looked at him, he just simply wasn’t given enough time. So you’re saying Crabtree was Joes read when Crab wasn’t even halfway through his route? Joe turned to Brown right when he got set after the rollout and waited for Brown to finish his break. Joe only looked to the right because that’s where he was rolling, not because those were his first reads.

The play was for Brown. It was designed so Joe could roll out and have a lot of time for Brown to run his route.

Yes, if Crabtree was not open when Joe looked at him, regardless of his route, Joe is going to move on. It is that simple. And Crabtree wasn't. Why? Because the Bills ran a zone coverage and the weakside linebacker sat on the underneath with a safety over the top. Joe likely read this and worked to his next read quickly. He could not afford to simply sit there and wait when the average time to throw in the NFL sits around 2 seconds.

You're never going to bank on your lone receiver to the opposite side of the field coming open in double coverage as your primary read. Again, that added an additional 15ish yards to the throw AND there was a corner and a safety on that side of the field.
Your first reads are always going to be to your strong side. If you're a right handed quarterback, you're first read will 99% of the time be on your right side. Why? Easiest throwing motion and easiest side to stop in a natural drop back. That's the quarterback position for you.

I'm also going to go off on a limb and just say that the rollouts were designed because the offensive line is still shaky and they wanted to get Flacco on the move and outside the pocket in a 2nd and 26 where the Bills could pin their ears back and just rush.

I don't really have any interest in debating this anymore, honestly. I'm glad you think you know exactly what Joe was thinking and that's totally fine, but I've said what I need to.

 

[Edgar]

I think John Brown is the read. It is utterly brazen as a play call and there have to be maybe 10 people on planet earth that could make that through...( This would include someone in the Serengeti who's never even heard of football probably) but I think it's by Design. That throw is absolutely ridiculous nevermind the fact that it was windy and raining.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

I think John Brown is the read. It is utterly brazen as a play call and there have to be maybe 10 people on planet earth that could make that through...( This would include someone in the Serengeti who's never even heard of football probably) but I think it's by Design. That throw is absolutely ridiculous nevermind the fact that it was windy and raining.

I am very much in agreement that it was a very good throw that few people could make, but as you said, given the conditions, that throw is extremely difficult to make.

That makes me even more skeptical to say he's the primary read. Why risk that level of difficulty on a throw on 2nd and 26 on your opening drive? 3rd and 26 is not where you want to be to set the tempo for the rest of the game.

No doubt he was an option, but I don't think he was the primary option. Still, amazing throw and it really set the tone.

 

[rossihunter2]

I am very much in agreement that it was a very good throw that few people could make, but as you said, given the conditions, that throw is extremely difficult to make.

That makes me even more skeptical to say he's the primary read. Why risk that level of difficulty on a throw on 2nd and 26 on your opening drive? 3rd and 26 is not where you want to be to set the tempo for the rest of the game.

No doubt he was an option, but I don't think he was the primary option. Still, amazing throw and it really set the tone.

i dont know - its the first drive - the ball hasnt hit the ground much at that point and everyone's jersey is drier so the ball is more tacky than heavy so its probably not a bad ball to throw early in the game

 

[Edgar]

Ravens still working out some kinks so far as communication in the secondary is concerned.

 

[RaineV1]

I can't remember seeing anything like this from The Ravens offense. Weigh in on this first play for me guys ( when you have time)...I start out dubious and the more I watched it, the more convinced I am that the entire play is by design; The delayed roll out, The insane Flacco throw across the field, The crazy route by John Brown....I'm amazed the thing worked.

The best part is that with Joe having such a strong arm, defenses still have to stay disciplined and cover the other side of the field when he rolls out.

 

[Militant X 1]

Ravens still working out some kinks so far as communication in the secondary is concerned.

Great stuff Edgar! And THAT'why I'm not too excited after 1 game against "rookie" QB's.

The red rifle and A.J. aka "The Ravens Killer" Green and their other offensive crew members are up tonight in Cinci and in PRIME TIME no less. Let's hope that we can stack up another "w" against not only another AFC opponent but a division rival and take the lead in the division 2-0. Wow!

GO RAVENS!

 

[RL52TheGreatest]

Ravens still working out some kinks so far as communication in the secondary is concerned.

Weddle seems to make these mistakes quite often. Love the dude, but they better clean that shit up for tonight or Dalton is gonna expose us.

 

[OriolesMagicPlease]

Booyah

I jump up and yell this every time the Ravens score a touchdown. If you haven't already tried it, you should because it feels sooo good! <---totally football related.

I like Cyborg, but I think I have to go with Beastboy

Honorable mention.

And Joe so wanted to make that throw. He knows he can.

 

[rossihunter2]

https://twitter.com/VeteranScout/status/1040344422695620608