The 2023 Offseason Thread

[purplepittabread88]

And yet I am happy with Lamar.

oh I agree and don't get me wrong he can be someone to win ***MANY MANY* playoff games

but unless this franchise gets their head out of their ass by getting wrs and a great oc, what's the point you feel?

winning 1 playoff game under Lamar on a rookie contract is one of the biggest disgraces of wasted potential in league history, I fully believe that.
we now have to hope to not only replicate, but vastly improve upon, the former situations with 25% less cap space

 

[rmcjacket23]

What's the point of being aggressive in FA though if you don't have a QB? I'd be surprised if they're overly concerned about big names in FA at this point, regardless of the decision. I highly doubt they're going to rush this thing so they can participate in the annual overpayers banquet.

Agree. Though if you're trading Lamar for a heap of picks, I assume that would involve using one or multiple of those picks to draft a rookie QB to be your new franchise guy.

And so then you would pretty much invest tons in FA if you could. Also I would think some of the $ would be used to extend your own players, which we typically do more of that than spending lots in FA anyway.

 

[ndub]

GIVE LAMAR WHATEVER THE HELL HE WANTS… damn, how fucking stubborn is this archaic FO

 

[Simba]

Agree. Though if you're trading Lamar for a heap of picks, I assume that would involve using one or multiple of those picks to draft a rookie QB to be your new franchise guy.

And so then you would pretty much invest tons in FA if you could. Also I would think some of the $ would be used to extend your own players, which we typically do more of that than spending lots in FA anyway.

Yeah and that's fair, but just don't see a scenario where they rush it to play in the FA market this year. Ideally, they get him signed. If the money doesn't work out, they might trade him. But I struggle to see them making that determination by the time FA opens. Realistically, that decision probably stretches somewhere from the days leading up to the draft until that FT extension deadline.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Yeah and that's fair, but just don't see a scenario where they rush it to play in the FA market this year. Ideally, they get him signed. If the money doesn't work out, they might trade him. But I struggle to see them making that determination by the time FA opens. Realistically, that decision probably stretches somewhere from the days leading up to the draft until that FT extension deadline.

Oh for sure. Only way we trade him this offseason that I see is if Lamar comes to us and says "I'm not signing here no matter what". Even if they can't get an agreement done by July deadline, I still think its like 95% chance he just plays out the year on the tag.

I was mostly pointing out that if there are people who think we'll trade him on or around the 2023 NFL draft, I don't see that having much of an impact on free agency or even really doing much good for 2023 salary cap. Most of the "cap relief" you'd get from trading him wouldn't be very useful after the draft, because most of the players worth any high $ have long since signed elsewhere. The cap savings comes from being able to roll that $ over into 2024, having it to spend for that FA period, and of course not having a QB on a $40-50M cap hit in 2024, either.

Only point to trading him before or on the draft is if you're like totally in love with one of these QBs, and have the trade ammo to get them.

My other issue is that I think the list of teams we'd be likely to trade with don't have high enough draft picks this year for us to necessarily get the QB we would want. I think we'd mostly try to trade him to the NFC. Would pretty much be looking squarely at the NFC South at that point, who have picks 8-10, which probably isn't high enough to get the QB you want perhaps.

That's my concern for 2024 as well if we go that route. All for trading him if it gets to that point, but ideally I'd want to trade him to somebody picking very high in the draft. Like top 5 or even top 3, and i'd like for it to be in the NFC ideally.

 

[rmcjacket23]

GIVE LAMAR WHATEVER THE HELL HE WANTS… damn, how fucking stubborn is this archaic FO

I'd say about as archaic as how over-reactionary and misguided various board members are here...

 

[ndub]

I'd say about as archaic as how over-reactionary and misguided various board members are here...

I get ya. Damn assholes

 

[cdp]

GIVE LAMAR WHATEVER THE HELL HE WANTS… damn, how fucking stubborn is this archaic FO

Right player right price that's what they do. In hindsight they should've started earlier but Lamar probably didn't want to.

 

[ndub]

Right player right price that's what they do. In hindsight they should've started earlier but Lamar probably didn't want to.

We trade him and our trash HC is toast. Lamar saved and has continued to save his ass

 

[cdp]

We trade him and our trash HC is toast. Lamar saved and has continued to save his ass

Huh? Roman and edc's roster management held our offense back. Roman was as advertised, sure many of us wanted him gone 2 years ago. But you can't constantly fire people and expect to have a great culture.

 

[Simba]

Oh for sure. Only way we trade him this offseason that I see is if Lamar comes to us and says "I'm not signing here no matter what". Even if they can't get an agreement done by July deadline, I still think its like 95% chance he just plays out the year on the tag.

I was mostly pointing out that if there are people who think we'll trade him on or around the 2023 NFL draft, I don't see that having much of an impact on free agency or even really doing much good for 2023 salary cap. Most of the "cap relief" you'd get from trading him wouldn't be very useful after the draft, because most of the players worth any high $ have long since signed elsewhere. The cap savings comes from being able to roll that $ over into 2024, having it to spend for that FA period, and of course not having a QB on a $40-50M cap hit in 2024, either.

Only point to trading him before or on the draft is if you're like totally in love with one of these QBs, and have the trade ammo to get them.

My other issue is that I think the list of teams we'd be likely to trade with don't have high enough draft picks this year for us to necessarily get the QB we would want. I think we'd mostly try to trade him to the NFC. Would pretty much be looking squarely at the NFC South at that point, who have picks 8-10, which probably isn't high enough to get the QB you want perhaps.

That's my concern for 2024 as well if we go that route. All for trading him if it gets to that point, but ideally I'd want to trade him to somebody picking very high in the draft. Like top 5 or even top 3, and i'd like for it to be in the NFC ideally.

If the scenario happened to play out like this, I'd think we'd almost prioritize 2024 picks and position ourselves to move then if we needed to. Hard thing with that of course is that you'd expect a team that trades Lamar to most likely have a pick in the back half of the round at worst. Really, just saying that I could see a scenario where Lamar is traded and they still go stop gap in hopes of a better crop, because this year's is pretty meh.

 

[allblackraven]

Lamar has done absolutely nothing to promote deserving a fully guaranteed contract. I get how he sees his leverage, but the browns only gave it to watson because they were out of the race and used that as a final all out bid to have a chance.

you can't finish 3 straight seasons not on the field and want fully guaranteed that's actually comical to me.
don't misinterpret this as me saying we shouldn't pay him what's fair, but if we offer 50+ mil a year and higher guarantees than Patrick fucking mahomet, you better play like or match Patrick fucking mahomes

we are talking about a qb with 1 playoff win and a qb who has 5 straight home afc championship appearances.

Yeah, that's a lot of bull.

Mahomes signed his contract 3 years ago and was surrounded by weapons and the best play callers in the league. Lamar got injured mostly by inability of others to get open to save their fucking life.

 

[purplepittabread88]

Yeah, that's a lot of bull.

Mahomes signed his contract 3 years ago and was surrounded by weapons and the best play callers in the league. Lamar got injured mostly by inability of others to get open to save their fucking life.

u miss the post below that says if we can get a proper oc and wrs then it makes sense but if we continue to neglect than what are we doing?

 

[BoredMarine13]

Wonder how he’s been since coming back from that ACL injury. I know he started slow that season. Wonder if he’s all the way back yet

I thought he looked pretty solid. Not the same explosive guy but still very capable

 

[BoredMarine13]

I wont be surprised if barret is cut… man lots of their players have huge cap hits

I think they are going to ride with Kyle Trask and go through a tough rebuild year. Tickets will atleast be cheap again!

 

[BoredMarine13]

Evans they'll either extend or trade/cut Post-June 1.
Godwin they'll just restructure or extend. He's not movable.

You think so ? I read Evans provides minimal cap relief. I do agree a restructure is likely, they can free up nearly 20 million in cap space by prorating to bonus for them both. If I’m the Bucs, I wouldn’t do that , they need to balance the scales and embrace a tough rebuild year.

 

[Thezone27]

You think so ? I read Evans provides minimal cap relief. I do agree a restructure is likely, they can free up nearly 20 million in cap space by prorating to bonus for them both. If I’m the Bucs, I wouldn’t do that , they need to balance the scales and embrace a tough rebuild year.

If I'm the bucs, I keep my weapons and do my best to delay a rebuild.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Yeah, that's a lot of bull.

Mahomes signed his contract 3 years ago and was surrounded by weapons and the best play callers in the league. Lamar got injured mostly by inability of others to get open to save their fucking life.

Right, and how he has Kelce and literally a whole roster full of JAGs at receiver. And they're in the SB.
They have better coaching offensively for sure. But Mahomes is also a significantly better overall QB than Lamar. Which literally everybody agrees with.

End of day, either you're a "win games" guy or not. If you think the QB is the most important position, they're evaluated off how well the team does, not how well they do. If thats unfair, so be it.

Not sure I'd want to be the "QB stats" guy either, because while I think Lamar's stats are great, they're not close to justifying a $50M contract or a fully guaranteed one either.

Paying Lamar is a decision on two things... a) that Lamar will continue to improve as a QB and get healthier than he's been as a QB and b) that he'll be able to do so without the worlds best play callers or worlds best receivers. Org can do better than what he had last year, but if you're expecting an Eagles or 49ers-level talent crew from your offense, that's an expectation problem on your part. It ain't happening, and it shouldn't happen either.

And if you don't think Lamar can do either of those things, ain't no point in paying him anymore.

I think he can and he will. But nobody knows that for certain either.

 

[rmcjacket23]

If I'm the bucs, I keep my weapons and do my best to delay a rebuild.

Bucs have a lot of problems. If you delay the rebuild, it means you're paying decent $ for a veteran QB. They're not totally in salary cap hell, but close to it.

 

[allblackraven]

u miss the post below that says if we can get a proper oc and wrs then it makes sense but if we continue to neglect than what are we doing?

That's a good question, because I have no idea. They left their QB without either of those for 2 years during which they failed to sign him, despite all the big talking. Now they seem to be eager to find a quality on coaching side and are promising the WR room overhaul but we still have no fucking idea who our QB really is.

I'm sick of all of it.