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The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

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Yup. Bernie filed one but it went nowhere because GOP controlled the Senate. Senate Dems introduced another one a year ago. I wonder if Donald or Mitch got the memo.

Looking at your links it just looks like more talk. I was thinking more of an actual plan that would provide details such as:

How much money would be allocated to each state.

What projects would be completed.

What is the cost and timeline for each project

What methods will be used to control costs.

What measures will be used to assure these projects are done for the people, not political payback.


I want the planning done before a bill is brought up . Americans deserve to see the details before legislation is voted on.
It is one thing to do something, it is another thing to do it well. Both parties seem to struggle with this.
 
Looking at your links it just looks like more talk. I was thinking more of an actual plan that would provide details such as:

How much money would be allocated to each state.

What projects would be completed.

What is the cost and timeline for each project

What methods will be used to control costs.

What measures will be used to assure these projects are done for the people, not political payback.


I want the planning done before a bill is brought up . Americans deserve to see the details before legislation is voted on.
It is one thing to do something, it is another thing to do it well. Both parties seem to struggle with this.
Most of those questions require executive branch involvement to answer. Congress has the pocketbook and the executive branch has the planning. That's how it's always been and how it should always be. Go call Trump and have him tell DOT to get on it. Every agency in DOT has a master plan of what they want to do, based on conversations and feedback from local officials, and it's up to Congress to approve the funds. For example, the Federal Railroad Administration has an extremely comprehensive plan for revamping the northeast corridor, but it's not funded yet. And those priorities are usually based on requests from local officials at the county level. For example, Cecil County officials have been asking for a MARC and Amtrak station for a long time but the federal money has never come. Congressional reps are usually involved in these processes but the bill actually has to be brought up for discussion for details to come out.

Though I can tell you:

Determining the state by state allocation is 1. something that requires executive branch involvement and 2. something that would be hashed out through public hearings and amendments.

As for cost control methods, if the project goes out for a bid to private contractors, I believe the feds would have to pick the lowest qualified bid. That's usually how it goes. If it's done by government employees, they'd have a similar process for defining the scope and cost of the project prior to starting. I mean, there aren't really "methods" for controlling cost. There are mechanisms that encourage lower costs, but some things just cost a lot of money and infrastructure is one of those things.

As for being done "for the people, not political payback," that's just way to subjective to regulate. For a lot of projects, you could make an argument either way. Look at the TIF for Port Covington in Baltimore. You could say "oh, those developers donate a lot to pols. it's just payback." But in reality, Baltimore needs innovative economic development and a TIF may be the best way to achieve that for the people. You can make an argument either way. There's no mechanism or measure you can devise to eliminate any possibility or perception of "political payback." The mere idea of that is utopian. I mean, are you going to block funding for any project backed by a political donor or politician? Great. Say goodbye to the redevelopment of Sparrows Point, the pending redevelopment of Bainbridge in Cecil County, Port Covington, etc... It's just not wise to block funding on the perception of impropriety or corruption. This is is why we have elections. To elect representatives that know what their district needs and will fight for it. The only way to eliminate this perception of corruption is through campaign finance reform but the Supreme Court decided that money is speech, so we're fucked anyway.
 
Looking at your links it just looks like more talk. I was thinking more of an actual plan that would provide details such as:

How much money would be allocated to each state.

What projects would be completed.

What is the cost and timeline for each project

What methods will be used to control costs.

What measures will be used to assure these projects are done for the people, not political payback.


I want the planning done before a bill is brought up . Americans deserve to see the details before legislation is voted on.
It is one thing to do something, it is another thing to do it well. Both parties seem to struggle with this.

If I could click the green button 5 times I would.
 
Most of those questions require executive branch involvement to answer. Congress has the pocketbook and the executive branch has the planning. That's how it's always been and how it should always be. Go call Trump and have him tell DOT to get on it. Every agency in DOT has a master plan of what they want to do, based on conversations and feedback from local officials, and it's up to Congress to approve the funds. For example, the Federal Railroad Administration has an extremely comprehensive plan for revamping the northeast corridor, but it's not funded yet. And those priorities are usually based on requests from local officials at the county level. For example, Cecil County officials have been asking for a MARC and Amtrak station for a long time but the federal money has never come. Congressional reps are usually involved in these processes but the bill actually has to be brought up for discussion for details to come out.

Though I can tell you:

Determining the state by state allocation is 1. something that requires executive branch involvement and 2. something that would be hashed out through public hearings and amendments.

As for cost control methods, if the project goes out for a bid to private contractors, I believe the feds would have to pick the lowest qualified bid. That's usually how it goes. If it's done by government employees, they'd have a similar process for defining the scope and cost of the project prior to starting. I mean, there aren't really "methods" for controlling cost. There are mechanisms that encourage lower costs, but some things just cost a lot of money and infrastructure is one of those things.

As for being done "for the people, not political payback," that's just way to subjective to regulate. For a lot of projects, you could make an argument either way. Look at the TIF for Port Covington in Baltimore. You could say "oh, those developers donate a lot to pols. it's just payback." But in reality, Baltimore needs innovative economic development and a TIF may be the best way to achieve that for the people. You can make an argument either way. There's no mechanism or measure you can devise to eliminate any possibility or perception of "political payback." The mere idea of that is utopian. I mean, are you going to block funding for any project backed by a political donor or politician? Great. Say goodbye to the redevelopment of Sparrows Point, the pending redevelopment of Bainbridge in Cecil County, Port Covington, etc... It's just not wise to block funding on the perception of impropriety or corruption. This is is why we have elections. To elect representatives that know what their district needs and will fight for it. The only way to eliminate this perception of corruption is through campaign finance reform but the Supreme Court decided that money is speech, so we're fucked anyway.

You are correct that states already have lists of projects they would like completed. It would be a simple process for congressional members from each state to obtain these lists with cost estimates. These projects to be funded need to be specified up front. Transparency is important, no deals behind closed doors after the bill is passed. Every state needs to receive benefit.

As for cost control I was referring to things such as value added clauses in minority participation, not allowing materials to be purchased from a supplier then resold to the contractor by a minority at a higher price and counted as minority participation. Eliminating wage scale provisions from these contracts, they are basically a union payoff that adds no value. Wage scale provisions also require costly and needless administration.Making sure these contracts include performance standards to assure quality work.

I do agree with you that campaign finance reform is needed to keep our elected officials in line. That will be a hard fight since neither party will walk away from the money.
 
You are correct that states already have lists of projects they would like completed. It would be a simple process for congressional members from each state to obtain these lists with cost estimates. These projects to be funded need to be specified up front. Transparency is important, no deals behind closed doors after the bill is passed. Every state needs to receive benefit.

As for cost control I was referring to things such as value added clauses in minority participation, not allowing materials to be purchased from a supplier then resold to the contractor by a minority at a higher price and counted as minority participation. Eliminating wage scale provisions from these contracts, they are basically a union payoff that adds no value. Wage scale provisions also require costly and needless administration.Making sure these contracts include performance standards to assure quality work.

I do agree with you that campaign finance reform is needed to keep our elected officials in line. That will be a hard fight since neither party will walk away from the money.

I can tell you without a doubt the Dems will never sign off unless unions are doing the work which will make any project just cost that much more. And yes Bernie has plans. He just wants to tax corporations that much more.
 
I can tell you without a doubt the Dems will never sign off unless unions are doing the work which will make any project just cost that much more. And yes Bernie has plans. He just wants to tax corporations that much more.
God forbid we pay workers a prevailing wage that supports working families. What's wrong with collective bargaining? Workers shouldn't have a right to sit at the table?
 
God forbid we pay workers a prevailing wage that supports working families. What's wrong with collective bargaining? Workers shouldn't have a right to sit at the table?

Govt money would also be going into union coffers to run their daily operation and that's substantial. For taxpayers it is not nessassarily the best option. The union has run its course since they don't believe in right to work. Look at Puerto Rico for example you had to be union to drive supplies and if you was just a volunteer sorry.
 
Govt money would also be going into union coffers to run their daily operation and that's substantial. For taxpayers it is not nessassarily the best option. The union has run its course since they don't believe in right to work. Look at Puerto Rico for example you had to be union to drive supplies and if you was just a volunteer sorry.
Why should people benefit from a union's negotiations without supporting said union?

I don't believe the union has run its course. Since 1980, GDP has exploded and wages haven't even come close to keeping up. If anything, we need more unions -- and more effective ones, too. The average American worker today is more productive and valuable than the average American worker 30 years ago, but their wages don't reflect that. This is why we have unions: to give workers a voice when the factory owners are taking more than their fair share.
 
Why should people benefit from a union's negotiations without supporting said union?

I don't believe the union has run its course. Since 1980, GDP has exploded and wages haven't even come close to keeping up. If anything, we need more unions -- and more effective ones, too. The average American worker today is more productive and valuable than the average American worker 30 years ago, but their wages don't reflect that. This is why we have unions: to give workers a voice when the factory owners are taking more than their fair share.

No if you're not in the union you should not benefit thru their negotitions but they should be able to make their own contracts. Its called freedom of choice.

Wage stagnation is a major problem and I've said numerous times as to why. Its glut of cheap labor. Look I'm not saying unions are completely horrible but they can be quite nasty if you're not involved.
 
No if you're not in the union you should not benefit thru their negotitions but they should be able to make their own contracts. Its called freedom of choice.

Wage stagnation is a major problem and I've said numerous times as to why. Its glut of cheap labor. Look I'm not saying unions are completely horrible but they can be quite nasty if you're not involved.

why's the labour so cheap? oh wait its because they arent being protected from companies trying to exploit them for below minimum wage and minimum wage pay - the labour is only cheap because the government allows companies to exploit it

unions are often the only thing protecting workers from exploitation and in my industry in the UK it particularly saves young people from being essentially forced to work for free to start their careers
 
why's the labour so cheap? oh wait its because they arent being protected from companies trying to exploit them for below minimum wage and minimum wage pay - the labour is only cheap because the government allows companies to exploit it

unions are often the only thing protecting workers from exploitation and in my industry in the UK it particularly saves young people from being essentially forced to work for free to start their careers

Precisely so we should go after employers that employ illegal immigrants right. What is the glut of cheap labor do you think I'm talking about? Oh and Obama lowering the hours for fulltime employment from 40 hrs to 30 hrs could also be a hindrance right. Personally I've done just fine without a union and unions have tried to keep me from making money. When I have time I can explain but unions have treated me as trash..
 
Precisely so we should go after employers that employ illegal immigrants right. What is the glut of cheap labor do you think I'm talking about? Oh and Obama lowering the hours for fulltime employment from 40 hrs to 30 hrs could also be a hindrance right. Personally I've done just fine without a union and unions have tried to keep me from making money. When I have time I can explain but unions have treated me as trash..

umm this only works if only illegal immigrants are being exploited - but virtually every single young person ive ever worked with has been exploited in some way by employers because there's so few jobs that to speak out is to risk losing your job for the foreseeable future...

the unions are the only thing that stop me and mine being consistently exploited by companies that know we dont have alternative options... if we dont like what's presented to us and there's no union to help then we essentially have 3 options: leave our career and take a completely unrelated and worse paying job, struggle and hope that we can afford to allow ourselves to be exploited until someone helps, be unemployed...

the union helps so that if a company tries to exploit then they lose access to an enormous pool of potential employees and potential legal repercussions too to mistreating/circumventing the rules - the union makes it in a company's interest to employ people legally and healthily...

and you know what a great byproduct of that is for all you conservatives? it means they dont hire illegal immigrants or people who dont have a right to work in the country... because suddenly they want to do everything by the book...

so unions functionally help both you and me - they help you by reducing the number of companies that take on people with no rights to work (which seems to be something close to your heart politically) and they stop companies from exploiting young/vulnerable/junior people
 
The Chief opened his mouth again, further angering more immigrant Americans causing one side to attack the other side that is busy trying to come up with ways to be indifferent or defend it.


I love America
 
in any other administration the stormy daniels stuff would be a presidency defining scandal - with trump it'll be forgotten by monday...
 
The Chief opened his mouth again, further angering more immigrant Americans causing one side to attack the other side that is busy trying to come up with ways to be indifferent or defend it.


I love America
Botswana's issued an official please explain. Crazy times we're living in.

http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...-shithole-comment-irresponsible-reprehensible
1515774649791.jpg
 
Honestly it’s hilarious that CNN and other news networks have changed their story about what Trump said in his meeting a few times already.

#fakenews lol

Lol it’s said because no one can truly believe any bs these “news” networks feed us...If you aren’t gonna report the truth the first time then don’t report it. I have a hard time believing anything these days. Everyone has their own agenda.
 
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