The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

[Ellicottraven]

Also for the fairest and full representation it won't hurt to make Election day a national holiday, but there's been great push back on it from one political party. Voter suppression is undemocratic as well not to mention gerry mandering of the House of Representatives. Who are these guys really representing if they're carved out undemocratically? There are way too many undemocratic ideas and principles in our Democracy, the oldest but most definitely among the more flawed among them.

 

[Willbacker]

Also for the fairest and full representation it won't hurt to make Election day a national holiday, but there's been great push back on it from one political party. Voter suppression is undemocratic as well not to mention gerry mandering of the House of Representatives. Who are these guys really representing if they're carved out undemocratically? There are way too many undemocratic ideas and principles in our Democracy, the oldest but most definitely among the more flawed among them.

Well lets see who gets off. Yes the federal public union employee. Yay!! Truck drivers, electricians, Walmart workers yeah they wont get off will they?

What do you mean by voter suppression?

I will say gerrymandering is a major problem on both sides.

 

[Willbacker]

The population in Illinois is over 12 million and the population in Chicago is under 3. If people outside Chicago really wanted to, it would be easy for them to overrule the people in Chicago. More people live in the state of New York than the city as well. I think the biggest problem in Maryland is gerrymandering which has limited them to 1 republican in the house. I am sure the Dems have played dirty with state seats as well. Granted Republicans did a ton of this nationally when they took control in 2010 because they could but at the end of the day that is what motivates both sides on this issue and why I don't take Republicans or Democrats all that seriously on it.

I should have said Cook Co and that was the county Clinton carried or otherwise Trump would have won. NY you can say the same thing. Buffalo,Rochester and Syracuse all these major cities carried Clinton to victory. Idk but I just don't trust these areas tallies. Harvest balloting what do you think of that? Missing boxes of votes just appearing out of nowhere. Oopsy daisy.

 

[52520Andrew]

I should have said Cook Co and that was the county Clinton carried or otherwise Trump would have won. NY you can say the same thing. Buffalo,Rochester and Syracuse all these major cities carried Clinton to victory. Idk but I just don't trust these areas tallies. Harvest balloting what do you think of that? Missing boxes of votes just appearing out of nowhere. Oopsy daisy.

So your solution is to let people in cities not have their votes count by as much because it may help the other candidate win? And your reasoning is something or another about improper counting making the results biased(as if they aren't already). Real sound logic on that one

 

[52520Andrew]

Also for the fairest and full representation it won't hurt to make Election day a national holiday, but there's been great push back on it from one political party. Voter suppression is undemocratic as well not to mention gerry mandering of the House of Representatives. Who are these guys really representing if they're carved out undemocratically? There are way too many undemocratic ideas and principles in our Democracy, the oldest but most definitely among the more flawed among them.

Can't make the elections fair cause the populated counties may vote for the other guy

 

[Ellicottraven]

Can't make the elections fair cause the populated counties may vote for the other guy

Precisely the problem.

 

[Ellicottraven]

Well lets see who gets off. Yes the federal public union employee. Yay!! Truck drivers, electricians, Walmart workers yeah they wont get off will they?

What do you mean by voter suppression?

I will say gerrymandering is a major problem on both sides.

Are you really questioning the idea of voter suppression? I suppose you could depending on where you get your news from. It is real and alive sir. As an aside just read up on North Carolina and Georgia elections from the last cycle.

 

[52520Andrew]

I guess we better get rid of referendums too because we can't have anything close to a tyrannical direct democracy

 

[Willbacker]

Are you really questioning the idea of voter suppression? I suppose you could depending on where you get your news from. It is real and alive sir. As an aside just read up on North Carolina and Georgia elections from the last cycle.

Oh we need to have identification omg the horrors. Its quite amazing that any type of picture id is bad but you guys fight it every step of the way. I find that quite interesting since you're ok with somebody saying I'm such and such and I live at said address. Please don't tell me they cant get one neither.

 

[Willbacker]

So your solution is to let people in cities not have their votes count by as much because it may help the other candidate win? And your reasoning is something or another about improper counting making the results biased(as if they aren't already). Real sound logic on that one

I notice you wont touch what I've said about ballot harvesting. Orange Co republicans won the mail in and ballot box voting until they counted those ballots. I dont trust Cali and if you would have took away just their votes Trump would have won by 2.4 mil in the other states popular vote wise.

 

[rossihunter2]

Oh we need to have identification omg the horrors. Its quite amazing that any type of picture id is bad but you guys fight it every step of the way. I find that quite interesting since you're ok with somebody saying I'm such and such and I live at said address. Please don't tell me they cant get one neither.

any barrier to voting is bad including requiring ID, in the UK i only have to state my address and name and i get given a ballot paper

voting fraud is in fact incredibly rare - for example ill give you the UK's numbers where the above system is in place

"Out of 44.6 million votes cast in 2017, there was one conviction resulting from the 28 allegations of in-person voter fraud – that’s 0.000063%."

it also has no impact on postal votes or early votes, proxy votes, ballot tampering etc.

the only thing adding IDs does is create extra barriers to voting for people who have turned up on the day to vote

 

[52520Andrew]

I notice you wont touch what I've said about ballot harvesting. Orange Co republicans won the mail in and ballot box voting until they counted those ballots. I dont trust Cali and if you would have took away just their votes Trump would have won by 2.4 mil in the other states popular vote wise.

And I noticed you haven't addressed my points.

Why have I not? Because you haven't provided any actual evidence to show it. So you think California literally added millions of votes for Hillary? Prove it.

Oh and FYI according to the link below, the margin was about 100,000 votes. Last time I checked that is smaller than 2.4 mil but correct me if I am wrong.

https://www.ocvote.com/fileadmin/live/gen2016/results.htm

 

[Willbacker]

And I noticed you haven't addressed my points.

Why have I not? Because you haven't provided any actual evidence to show it. So you think California literally added millions of votes for Hillary? Prove it.

Oh and FYI according to the link below, the margin was about 100,000 votes. Last time I checked that is smaller than 2.4 mil but correct me if I am wrong.

https://www.ocvote.com/fileadmin/live/gen2016/results.htm

Ballot harvesting started for the 2018 elections. When did the repubs lose their seats in Orange Co? Also Hillary won Cali by 4.2 mil votes ( not only Orange Co ) but only beat Trump by 2.8 mil. I clearly said Trump if you discounted Cali would have won the other 49 states by 2.4 mil. Seriously dude.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/California-s-late-votes-broke-big-for-13432727.php

 

[Ellicottraven]

Oh we need to have identification omg the horrors. Its quite amazing that any type of picture id is bad but you guys fight it every step of the way. I find that quite interesting since you're ok with somebody saying I'm such and such and I live at said address. Please don't tell me they cant get one neither.

You make so many suppositions and assumptions about me and my thought processes. Listen, all I'm saying is for you to understand that voter suppression is not a liberal idea nor is it a media created notion. It is as real as day light.

Republicans sadly have clung on to power through voter suppression and gerry mandering all these years especially in the red states. That is how they cling to a majority in Texas for example because the demographics don't support Republican ideas. Yet the news that is spewed by conservative talk radio and ridiculous websites like Brietbart are poisoning the minds of impressionable Americans that generally get their news told to them vis a vis talk radio hosts. That is sad.

In reality voter suppression by creating rigorous ID requirements or creating very few polling stations in predominantly dense minority areas thereby creating bottlenecks for voters and then enforcing time rules so after a certain time you can't cast your ballot are all very elementary cases of voter suppression.

I don't think I'll be able to convince you in a paragraph what you've imbibed as news from your opinion hosts or opinion conservative talk shows. Or for that matter what motivates you to have the views you do because if you were intellectually honest you'd realize that you need to get news from real news organizations like the NY Times, Wapo, Reuters, NPR, etc. That's just my view personally.

Also, lastly I have to let you know I don't belong to any party. I am a registered Independent that votes on candidates and not party.

 

[Willbacker]

You make so many suppositions and assumptions about me and my thought processes. Listen, all I'm saying is for you to understand that voter suppression is not a liberal idea nor is it a media created notion. It is as real as day light.

Republicans sadly have clung on to power through voter suppression and gerry mandering all these years especially in the red states. That is how they cling to a majority in Texas for example because the demographics don't support Republican ideas. Yet the news that is spewed by conservative talk radio and ridiculous websites like Brietbart are poisoning the minds of impressionable Americans that generally get their news told to them vis a vis talk radio hosts. That is sad.

In reality voter suppression by creating rigorous ID requirements or creating very few polling stations in predominantly dense minority areas thereby creating bottlenecks for voters and then enforcing time rules so after a certain time you can't cast your ballot are all very elementary cases of voter suppression.

I don't think I'll be able to convince you in a paragraph what you've imbibed as news from your opinion hosts or opinion conservative talk shows. Or for that matter what motivates you to have the views you do because if you were intellectually honest you'd realize that you need to get news from real news organizations like the NY Times, Wapo, Reuters, NPR, etc. That's just my view personally.

Also, lastly I have to let you know I don't belong to any party. I am a registered Independent that votes on candidates and not party.

Rigorous ID requirement? Even if you get them for free lol. Sorry you're supposed to have an ID for lots of things. Who also runs the areas that you say lack polling areas? If there is time rules there should be an extension for people already in line. If not then I'm on your side. I have to ask what do you mean by demographics that don't support republican ideas?? That don't make a damn bit of sense.

If you don't believe the media organaztions you list don't lean pretty wildly to the left then you just keep believing that. I mean some real news organaztions could be NY Post and Washington Times but I believe they lean towards the right but I can easily tell you at least out of the Washington and NY papers who has had to make the most corrections. That's a long list.

Also why you only blaming republicans for gerrymandering. We don't have that problem in Md? You may be an independent but everything you said in this post is extremely liberal.

 

[Ellicottraven]

Rigorous ID requirement? Even if you get them for free lol. Sorry you're supposed to have an ID for lots of things. Who also runs the areas that you say lack polling areas? If there is time rules there should be an extension for people already in line. If not then I'm on your side. I have to ask what do you mean by demographics that don't support republican ideas?? That don't make a damn bit of sense.

If you don't believe the media organaztions you list don't lean pretty wildly to the left then you just keep believing that. I mean some real news organaztions could be NY Post and Washington Times but I believe they lean towards the right but I can easily tell you at least out of the Washington and NY papers who has had to make the most corrections. That's a long list.

Also why you only blaming republicans for gerrymandering. We don't have that problem in Md? You may be an independent but everything you said in this post is extremely liberal.

At this point all I can do is to agree to disagree with you because if I extend this conversation to its logical end, we will not have a consensus point of view. I'm now ready to discuss 'Ravens Football' which I'm happy to note we both love and can agree on!

As for me being extremely liberal, all I can counter you with is that I'm generally well informed and reasonably well read. If that makes me extremely liberal in your view, I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[52520Andrew]

Ballot harvesting started for the 2018 elections. When did the repubs lose their seats in Orange Co? Also Hillary won Cali by 4.2 mil votes ( not only Orange Co ) but only beat Trump by 2.8 mil. I clearly said Trump if you discounted Cali would have won the other 49 states by 2.4 mil. Seriously dude.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/California-s-late-votes-broke-big-for-13432727.php

You bring up ballot harvesting in California(specifically in Orange county) and insinuate that without ballot harvesting(say without California right after pointing out shady practices in California) that Trump would have won the popular vote. I am disputing that. I could care less about 2018, especially in Orange county. In 2016 Hillary won the majority and Kamala Harris had 53% of the vote there as I just posted in the link. Doesn't sound like an overly republican county to me, especially if this ballot harvesting stuff didn't start until 2018 like you just said.

I have only skimmed your stuff to the apparently far left @Ellicottraven because I haven't had time. I've been responding to your posts to me.

 

[Oldfaithful]

I love how this thread constantly devolves into criticizing each other for simply having a different opinion. I’m not calling out a particular side here either... Everyone here is fucking guilty of it. Shit like this is why I vote split ticket. The moment people start calling each other extreme liberal or conservative, or the moment people start deeming the other party as evil, you get a polarized climate. This thread continues to prove my point every time I visit, and as a guy who works for the government, I can assure you it’s not nearly as bad as you all think it is.

Word to the wise as someone who’s actually worked in the shitshow and will be working there again real soon: get the fuck over it. The system is already designed for gridlock to prevent the government from getting too powerful. When unhealthy debate, which has been what’s occurring both here and in the real world, is occurring then nothing gets done.

And again, as someone who has worked in the shitshow(cause that’s what it is), I can respectfully say that none of you know what you’re talking about. The media? Most of them are morons. There’s only about four news sources nowadays that are actually worth reading from because they have no semblance of bias(AP, Reuters, the Print copy of Politico). The rest have agendas and that’s what’s really dividing people. Most of these guys down here don’t hate each other(barring some exceptions) but here y’all are arguing over something that won’t even come close to making it to the House or Senate floors.

It’s a pointless debate btw. The electoral college is never going to go away. So yeah. Get the fuck over it. Criticize it all you want, it’s flawed, but nothing is going to change. That would require a constitutional amendment and states like Wyoming, North Dakota, etc, would never go for it.

Get over Trump. The country has much bigger problems at hand right now(that the media, who’s only after ratings and a narrative, isn’t fucking paying attention to that I refuse to go over with any of you) and he’ll be gone in a year anyway and the next president can undo fucking everything he’s done.

Just because I disagree with practically all of you on something doesn’t mean I hate you(besides @52520Andrew, I hope you rot in hell). I think society needs to relearn that lesson.

 

[Willbacker]

At this point all I can do is to agree to disagree with you because if I extend this conversation to its logical end, we will not have a consensus point of view. I'm now ready to discuss 'Ravens Football' which I'm happy to note we both love and can agree on!

As for me being extremely liberal, all I can counter you with is that I'm generally well informed and reasonably well read. If that makes me extremely liberal in your view, I'll take that as a compliment.

So am I. What is it 97 days till opening day. Long time sheesh.

Just to let you know tho I feel I'm well rounded too. Got Yahoo news when I first open up the computer which is littered with articles mainly from the left and I just skim thru and read whats interesting to me at the time sometimes with a chuckle. When I'm in the truck tho I do like the Patriot channel on Sirius but I don't listen to Breitbart lol. That guys voice grates on me. Where I really feel like I'm well rounded tho is really not thru the news but the people I deal with on a daily basis. I hear all sides of it believe me.

Basically I'm a constitutional conservative that flat out wants the power in the people not the government. Individualism/pulling your own weight is what the USA should be to me. Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness.

 

[Tank]

Opinions on the subject aside, there is no valid reason/excuse that a person should not have a Gov issued picture ID.