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The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Forum' started by usmccharles, May 22, 2017.

  1. JO_75

    JO_75 Ravens Ring of Honor

    LOL at the Democrats. They just sealed their fate in the election next year by extending health benefits to those living illegally in the US. Democrats still can't figure out why Trump won in 2016 and why they are guaranteeing another Trump victory in 2020. They already were handicapping themselves with terrible candidate choices anyway but now this?

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/california-become-first-state-extend-132010832.html
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  2. Willbacker

    Willbacker Pro Bowler

    Must be nice when they get food, shelter and immediate healthcare while the homeless have tents lined up all over the sidewalks of their cities.
     
  3. gtalk12

    gtalk12 Veteran

    It's also illegal in some areas to be homeless. (standing around asking for money)
     
  4. 52520Andrew

    52520Andrew Veteran

    I'm willing to let the Dems filter themselves out, at this time no one took Trump seriously(He hadn't even announced his candidacy) and look where we are now. I think the big curve ball is the peaking economy and how long that lasts, does the next recession happen during 2020 or does it hold off a bit? I think it is coming regardless(they always come eventually and we are in the latter stages of the economic cycle) but how soon is still up for debate.
     
  5. flynismo

    flynismo Practice Squad

    Yep, like the saying goes, "it's the economy, stupid."
    It's just speculation, but many experts are predicting this year will be bigger than last, and then next year even bigger yet. Of course, opinions + a dollar will get you a cup of coffee....I'm just hoping this is true because we all win together if so.
     
  6. flynismo

    flynismo Practice Squad

    Give us your tired, your hungry, your poor...that is what America stands for. We always have. And that makes me proud.
    But when is it our turn? When do we start taking care of our own without being called racists and xenophobes?
     
  7. flynismo

    flynismo Practice Squad

    Btw...this thread has been going on for over two years strong! Good job keeping it civil guys. I honestly thought this would die in the first three months. It's a shame that our overpaid overlords cannot discuss their differences the way us peasants can.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. rossihunter2

    rossihunter2 Staff Member Moderator

    at the moment though America's not taking care of anyone either american or otherwise... not the refugees/immigrants at the mexican border who are being put in glorified concentration camps and kids who are being separated from parents; not the working classes for whom wealth inequality is close to the worst its ever been in modern history, for whom there are not enough provisions for healthcare, childcare, housing, insurance, food and a minimum wage that is not a living wage; not racial minorities who are still being victimised and profiled by employers and the police and are still stereotyped and hamstrung by the hold overs of jim crow and are now even threatened by a rising white supremacy movement; not the lgbtqia citizens who still have to defend their very existence and its legitimacy from various classes of people from all directions; not the young people in schools who have to do mass shooting drills; not the university students and former university students who have in many cases accrued more debt than they will ever be able to pay off just because they went to college in the first place because they have no employability without a degree; not the women who's bodily autonomy is being threatened on a seemingly weekly basis etc. etc. etc.

    i can think of only one class of people who America is currently taking care of in a positive manner - and they're not people who are like you or I or anyone ive listed above
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. 52520Andrew

    52520Andrew Veteran

    It's a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in the big club
     
  10. That is a pretty radical point of view @flynismo. The irony is we really aren't taking care of our own either right now. In fact the wealth disparity has only increased by virtue of the enormous tax breaks given to the supremely wealthy who have chosen to use those huge funds to just buy back their own stock and keeping their stock prices inflated. That isn't true market economics when you do that. The unwarranted trade wars are fun to watch because it gives one a sense of power seeing that we can impose these tariffs on China and so forth, but in reality it hurts our daily life because we can no longer afford basic things predominantly made elsewhere. And those other countries? They have pride and power too? When they impose sanctions it hurts the very farmers the figure heads propose to help with these tariffs. And then the conservative (at least not fiscally conservative anymore) Govt. turns around and just 'gives' away $15B of your tax dollars and mine to these very farmers because it is politically expedient! How stupid is that entire concept? It is like borrowing your neighbor's ladder, getting up on a really tall wall, extracting the biggest nail you can find and then shoving it deep up your own ass! That's precisely how this idiotic policy has been working so far. There is absolutely no need for these tariff wars other than to feed a huge ego.

    When is our turn? Only when you have a sensible and honest Govt. will the middle class and the working class really be helped. Not otherwise. Right now only innuendo and hate for the neighbor that doesn't look like you feeds us propagated by hateful politics at the highest level and then echoed by dishonest TV opinion hosts (multi millionaires themselves) and Sinclair talk radio hosts across middle and red America. Sorry for the long diatribe but we need honesty and regard for our country and its founders intentions first. The Constitution has to be followed not by the words it forms but the awesome intentions it is supposed to forward.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019 at 5:22 PM
  11. rossihunter2

    rossihunter2 Staff Member Moderator

    its not that big of a club lol - that's the worst thing about it
     
  12. flynismo

    flynismo Practice Squad

    Trump came in and turned around Obama's historically slow growing economy and now this economy is so strong that it is achieving things that it hasn't accomplished in generations, and in some cases, ever. Jobs and companies are coming back here like crazy. WE LITERALLY HAVE MORE JOBS AVAILABLE THAN PEOPLE LOOKING FOR WORK. Trump also just secured a deal with Mexico that is going to protect our southern border. California is providing healthcare to the illegals who aren't even part of our country. And I won't even get started on the billions upon billions of dollars we hand out each year in foreign aid. So please don't tell me how America isn't taking care of anyone.

    I have never in my life seen a concentration camp with a PS4 in it, have you? Or are you referring to the "cages", where they are initially held for a few days?
    Do you weep for the children of citizens of our country who are separated from their parents too when their parents violate our laws? Or do you only sympathize with the ones who try to sneak into a sovereign country illegally?

    "Wealth inequality"? You're reffering to something like when one person risks their life savings and any semblance of a social or family life in order to start a business, which in turn then generates jobs for other people, you think it is unfair that they make more money than some 40 year old loser who pumps gas or folds clothes for a living? Spare me. In this country, if you don't have a serious health issue preventing otherwise, you have all the same opportunities as everyone else. I'm a high school dropout and I make well over six figure salary. If you're poor in this country, it is because you made bad decisions in life.

    All of this, aside from the college debts, is overblown nonsense that garbage media like CNN tries to promote. If you actually lived here in this country, you would know that. And I was going to let the abortion bit slide, but the woman isn't the one who dies during an abortion; this is the baby's bodily autonomy at stake here, not hers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2019 at 6:24 PM
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  13. rossihunter2

    rossihunter2 Staff Member Moderator

    I think this is maybe the most naive thing you’ve said - it’s not about decisions - for many poor or broke people they don’t get to make decisions that pull them out of being poor because they can’t take advantage of any opportunities that come their way and especially if they’re part of a minority in a pseudo-segregated area the opportunities likely don’t exist the same way in the first place

    it’s incredibly naive and insulting that you would suggest people being poor is their own fault

    And in terms of wealth inequality in general - what you’ve suggested it means is not what it means at all
     
  14. flynismo

    flynismo Practice Squad

    No it isn't insulting or naive to blame poverty on people's decisions. Here's a fact:
    If you are in high school and do these three things, you have over 80% chance of being at least middle class in this country
    1. Finish high school
    2. Get a job
    3. Wait until you are married to have children
    https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/...teens-should-follow-to-join-the-middle-class/

    That is something ANY American child can do. And this conversation is a perfect representation of the differences between the left and the right here and why Trump won the election. People are sick of listening to the victim mentality, rather than being accountable for themselves.
    And I'll repeat. I not only dropped out of high school, I also had children before marriage. And here I am, making more money than most. Why? It isn't because I blamed "the system" and begged the government to pay my way. I made smart decisions that I should have when I was still in school and followed through on it.
    I've lived in massive cities, and I've lived in desolate rural areas. No matter where I have been, I have seen people raise themselves out of poverty, and I have seen others make stupid life choices that drove them to poverty.
    So you can certainly feel as offended as you wish, but it is an inescapable fact that here in this country, we have freedom and control over our lives and the ability to make our own choices. I never said it is your fault if you are not rich - I said it is your fault if you are poor. It is very easy to not be poor here, especially if you are married or cohabitating with your significant other, or if you are living at home.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019 at 11:13 AM
  15. gtalk12

    gtalk12 Veteran

    I keep trying to tell yall that the issue in this country is education but ya'll aint trying to hear it.
     
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  16. Charm City

    Charm City Practice Squad

    I'd say its a mindset that people don't adopt for one reason or another that leads to the poor decisions they make in their lives, and I say that your culture plays the largest role in establishing that mindset.

    My parents left their home country in the late 70's when they were each young children. Their families did not speak English, and English was never the language that was spoken in their houses. Their parents were blue-collar workers like hairdressers and construction workers, jobs immigrants take that does not require them to be fluent in the language and norms of the country they moved to. My mom has told me about how her family would pick up dumped furniture off the street so that they had something to sleep on the first few years of their lives in this country. Despite all these factors, my parents were both able to go to local colleges in Southern California and I now live a comfortable middle-class life because of their hard work and am able to do my part to make sure my children are able to live the lives that my grandparents couldn't even dream of when they left their country decades ago.

    Speaking to the point about education that @gtalk12 brings up, my culture stresses the importance of education above everything else. No kids, no getting married, you don't leave school to pick up a job...you stay in school until you have the highest possible degree in your field (PhD, Masters, MD, etc.) and your family will do their best to make sure that you have the resources necessary to accomplish that feat. I find that this is common across other minorities that have broken the so called "cycle of poverty" that many say is real but I call an excuse. Asian people were treated like garbage when they were brought here to build the railroads and when we put them in camps, yet they were the majority at my university and hold plenty of power and prestige in America.
     
  17. rossihunter2

    rossihunter2 Staff Member Moderator

    conveniently ignoring the reasons people drop out of high school or the fact that kids can be broke and homeless and poor too

    and not sure i trust statistics coming from unreferenced and unattached figures from "research" by a partisan organisation like that who have a clear agenda with their research and facts etc.

    and fyi its a signifier of a broken system if marriage or cohabitation is a pre-requisite for not being poor or raising poor kids and completely disregards the structural barriers that do prevent significant swathes of people from graduating high school or moving on even after high school
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Charm City

    Charm City Practice Squad

    well, why shouldn't cohabitation be a pre-requisite for not being poor, and what are the structural barriers that prevent education in America. I just discovered this thread on here and I am looking forward to our well mannered discussion

    and I'm not saying that cohabitation is either sufficient or necessary to escape poverty, but I'd argue that it plays a part
     
  19. rossihunter2

    rossihunter2 Staff Member Moderator

    being homeless, not being able to afford meals, not having a living wage and things like that on a basic level

    but things like illiteracy, lack of childcare access etc. prevent people from breaking out of the poverty cycle because by the time they even get to high school they are behind and their parents are unable to break the cycle because they often dont have the literacy skills to improve their economic position

    gtalk and flynismo are both right that the main way to combat poverty is education but that has to be followed through on or at-risk kids get left behind and the cycle of poverty continues

    and i think its impossible to ignore that it affects some communities a lot more than it does others
     
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  20. Charm City

    Charm City Practice Squad

    So I think the biggest difference between your argument and theirs is probably the part where you address the need to follow through on education. Who is doing that job to make sure they live their lives to their highest potential. I don't want to speak on gtalk or flynismo's behalf, but I would argue that it is the job of the family. Which is why I being up cohabitation and family culture. If you are from a family that stresses that everyone needs to stick up for one another, then you always have people there to keep you straight. But if your mom or dad leave your family when you are young, that is one less person that can help the others.
     
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