The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

[JAAM]

We’re so screwed if Biden wins. All these terrorists burning down cities should be sending votes Trump’s way. I can’t imagine living in a Democrat country right now. It’s already bad enough I live in shitty California.

 

[rossihunter2]

The sports boycotts are certainly an interesting choice and I'm really wondering what they're hoping to gain by doing this. You can't just boycott one game and then go back to it. There's no value in doing that. I think the Bucks were on the right path - they boycotted and used their time last night to speak publicly, and then they went back inside and made efforts to have conversations with people in high positions. But it can't stop there if they want to use their platform and make change. I don't think it's a surprise that a lot of these efforts are completely misaligned and there's almost this sense that big change can happen overnight. But as rmcjacket mentioned above, this is a much bigger quest and it's going to require conversation and a mindset shift from both sides.

Human rights issues should not be so rooted in politics, but that's our reality. We've never been so divided as a country so far as the unwillingness to work together from a political standpoint. All conversations are a pissing match and it's become an all or nothing proposal now - no one is willing to concede a little bit in the other direction to make this country better. There used to be a time that you could have differing thoughts but that didn't make you an evil person. You thought differently, you had conversations, you came to an understanding, and you leave with no animosity. But our "leaders" have changed that narrative to where there's only a right and wrong, no in between.

And there's one of the big problems with the latest situation. Jacob Blake is not absolved completely from his role in this, but that also doesn't mean he deserved 7 shots in his back. No one is willing to have the conversation that change is needed on both sides. Policing procedures need reform but so does society as a whole. The longer we continue to sit on one side or the other without realizing that this is an effort that we all need to take, the longer the divide continues and the longer the country spirals. It starts from the top, and we're the ones that can influence that change. Politics have become much more about attacking the opposition than presenting any sort of actual platform for change. That's on us - find the right people that want to have these conversations instead of making it a red vs. blue debate.

i think the thing here is that its black athletes (as many have said publicly) being tired of being tired

the power they have is the ability to withdraw themselves from the entertainment of an audience who may have wished them to stick to sports - the idea that they should have to split their identity between being an black man or woman in america and being an athlete has become unacceptable to them in many cases

so they wield the power they have - the leagues can't operate without black men and women (and other BAME identities too)

with regards to jacob blake - the thing that is most frustrating is the fact that him being potentially a criminal in other facets of his life shouldnt matter at that point in time - not only should black men and women not be being shot by police but guilty black men and women also shouldnt be shot by police

having a criminal history shouldnt mean death by cop and it certainly doesnt justify it either

 

[rossihunter2]

In terms of the political impact, I think many of these athletes and activists are greatly over-thinking this idea that "change" will come in the form of putting more liberal/democrat officials in power. I think you've got decades of evidence of how that's not true, and so I'm not sure why they think that's going to drive significant change. I understand the desire to get Trump out of office for a variety of reasons, but as others have pointed out, it by no means guarantees anything in regards to social change.

the idea i think is that clearly the democrats are more malleable to those issues - they wont enact significant change because that's not in the nature of the democrat party but they are more likely to be responsive to mass movements that demand change in terms of civil and human rights

trump is actively hostile to those ambitions whereas biden is more amenable even if he's not the change or unlikely to be the change

 

[Simba]

i think the thing here is that its black athletes (as many have said publicly) being tired of being tired

the power they have is the ability to withdraw themselves from the entertainment of an audience who may have wished them to stick to sports - the idea that they should have to split their identity between being an black man or woman in america and being an athlete has become unacceptable to them in many cases

so they wield the power they have - the leagues can't operate without black men and women (and other BAME identities too)

with regards to jacob blake - the thing that is most frustrating is the fact that him being potentially a criminal in other facets of his life shouldnt matter at that point in time - not only should black men and women not be being shot by police but guilty black men and women also shouldnt be shot by police

having a criminal history shouldnt mean death by cop and it certainly doesnt justify it either

Yeah I get that. But if you go back the next day... what did you really prove? Athletes are certainly on a pedestal but I also think some act like they have bigger voices than they really do. I applaud the solidarity and everything, but you have to have some action that goes along with it. I think that's the thing that is always being missed when athletes do step up - they aren't aligned. They're starting actions without thinking of where they go next. If you really want to prove something as an athlete, do it as a group. The Bucks started the trend last night and the other cancellations weren't in consideration until they did. Those teams were forced to follow the trend. If you start that conversation with a larger audience that can make an impact and decide on how you want to proceed together, you're much more likely to enact some semblance of change than doing it in silos and then having other groups just hop onboard.

And could not agree more. Yeah, Jacob Blake was not some innocent bystander by any means, but that still doesn't mean he deserved to be shot.

 

[rossihunter2]

Yeah I get that. But if you go back the next day... what did you really prove? Athletes are certainly on a pedestal but I also think some act like they have bigger voices than they really do. I applaud the solidarity and everything, but you have to have some action that goes along with it. I think that's the thing that is always being missed when athletes do step up - they aren't aligned. They're starting actions without thinking of where they go next. If you really want to prove something as an athlete, do it as a group. The Bucks started the trend last night and the other cancellations weren't in consideration until they did. Those teams were forced to follow the trend. If you start that conversation with a larger audience that can make an impact and decide on how you want to proceed together, you're much more likely to enact some semblance of change than doing it in silos and then having other groups just hop onboard.

And could not agree more. Yeah, Jacob Blake was not some innocent bystander by any means, but that still doesn't mean he deserved to be shot.

oh 100% you have to commit to the strike if you're going to do one - you cant cross the picket line (or end the picket) and you have to have clear demands for what it is you want beyond just awareness

 

[JO_75]

the idea i think is that clearly the democrats are more malleable to those issues - they wont enact significant change because that's not in the nature of the democrat party but they are more likely to be responsive to mass movements that demand change in terms of civil and human rights

trump is actively hostile to those ambitions whereas biden is more amenable even if he's not the change or unlikely to be the change

Funny they think it has to do with Trump being in office, Ferguson and Baltimore incidents happened under Obama. Also if they want change, they need to realize the party they support are the ones not holding the police in those cities accountable for their actions.

Keosha, WI Mayor: Democrat
Atlanta Mayor: Democrat
Minnesota Mayor: Democrat
St. Louis Mayor: Democrat

I'm going to say it now, all this is doing is helping Trump secure his re-election come November. The american people see the riots, the looting, the failure by the local government in those cities, run by democrats to condemn these riots. They are waking up more than they did in 2016, and the silent majority is going to be even louder. The polls, whether you believe the accuracy of the polls or not, are tightening and all of this has allowed Trump to close the gap on Biden.

 

[rossihunter2]

Funny they think it has to do with Trump being in office, Ferguson and Baltimore incidents happened under Obama. Also if they want change, they need to realize the party they support are the ones not holding the police in those cities accountable for their actions.

Keosha, WI Mayor: Democrat
Atlanta Mayor: Democrat
Minnesota Mayor: Democrat
St. Louis Mayor: Democrat

I'm going to say it now, all this is doing is helping Trump secure his re-election come November. The american people see the riots, the looting, the failure by the local government in those cities, run by democrats to condemn these riots. They are waking up more than they did in 2016, and the silent majority is going to be even louder. The polls, whether you believe the accuracy of the polls or not, are tightening and all of this has allowed Trump to close the gap on Biden.

it's almost like there arent any riots to condemn...
i dunno about you but ive seen a riot up close and none of these protests look like riots to me

 

[JAAM]

I’m dying to see a Biden v Trump debate. The only saving grace the liberals have is if Kamala “lift them legs in the air” Harris takes command

 

[JAAM]

Take it from someone who was born and raised in California: you do NOT want Biden as your president and Kamala as your VP. That might be a worse combo than McCain and Palin. All good though. ANTIFA and BLM seem to be doing all the work for The Don

 

[JO_75]

Division in America isn't just by the government, its also us doing a very good job of dividing thus country ourselves. It seems everyone is quick to pick a side, they ignore anything that actually hurts their cause, etc.

Like bringing up the criminal record of a black person when police shoot them. "They had a criminal record." The flip side is more of... "That's not important, or that's not the point".

Why can't we just come together and agree that whatever that person did was wrong but also agree that an officer shooting that person is also wrong? It is a terrible look when your essentially defending a criminal while you also have the other side defending a rouge cop who had no business shooting anyone.

 

[rmcjacket23]

it's almost like there arent any riots to condemn...
i dunno about you but ive seen a riot up close and none of these protests look like riots to me

I would say it is. You can't call it a protest if there's people throwing things at other people, destroying property, and stealing from the businesses that they need to survive on.

So if that doesn't qualify as a "riot", then its something in between, because its certainly not a protest either.

Either way, its a bad look for liberals as well, and its their biggest problem going into November.

 

[rossihunter2]

I would say it is. You can't call it a protest if there's people throwing things at other people, destroying property, and stealing from the businesses that they need to survive on.

So if that doesn't qualify as a "riot", then its something in between, because its certainly not a protest either.

Either way, its a bad look for liberals as well, and its their biggest problem going into November.

idk man - this idea that property is more important than human life in a narrative sense is ridiculous
and how much of this "rioting" started as rioting - how much of it was escalated from peaceful protesting...

because going back to post-george floyd's murder i saw a hell of a lot of peaceful protests who's only crime was staying out beyond a curfew being aggressed upon by police and white supremacist groups

 

[52520Andrew]

I’m dying to see a Biden v Trump debate. The only saving grace the liberals have is if Kamala “lift them legs in the air” Harris takes command

The dementia debates as I have been calling them are going to be hilarious watching both of them stumbling over themselves. Between Biden's gaffes and Trump talking about airports in the revolutionary war, I will definitely have the popcorn ready.

 

[rmcjacket23]

idk man - this idea that property is more important than human life in a narrative sense is ridiculous
and how much of this "rioting" started as rioting - how much of it was escalated from peaceful protesting...

because going back to post-george floyd's murder i saw a hell of a lot of peaceful protests who's only crime was staying out beyond a curfew being aggressed upon by police and white supremacist groups

1. There isn't a suggestion that property is more valuable than life, though I could easily argue there's a significant number of lives worldwide that are worth a hell of a lot less than people think. There's no shortage of people who suck off the government tit, provide practically no practical output or benefit to society whatsoever.
Destruction of property that doesn't belong to you in "protest" of something is, by my definition, a riot. A riot doesn't require human life being taken, nor does a person dying justify rioting either.
2. How much was escalated from peaceful protesting? I don't know, and neither does anybody else. I do know there's no shortage of incidents of property destruction, looting, fires, etc. that occur without any police escalation, mostly because the police aren't even in the area, so there's nothing to escalate. Its just people with little or no character taking advantage of those are helpless to stop them, and using the mob mentality to get their 15 minutes.

I've lived in two mid-size cities during two different eras of protests. I found the police response to be genius. Genius in the sense that they did nothing to stop the protesters. They let them do whatever they wanted, including burn buildings/buses/cars, and destroy infrastructure, like businesses. And then, when the dust settles, they rightfully denied any sort of economic stimulus or support for the community, because this wasn't occurring in rich people neighborhoods who could afford to rebuild. These were minorities destroying critical infrastructure they needed to survive, earn income, etc. And those businesses and infrastructure never rebounded, and the area went into even further economic divide than it was already in. And the people involved earned 100% of the economic disadvantage achieved from it.

I kid you not... I live in a city where "protesters" lit fire to several mass-transit buses in a week, they had several people on camera, and rightfully prosecuted. Three months later, there was a protest outside a City Counsel meeting demanding the City pay for new buses, since the loss in transportation and caused significant delays to mass-transit and had a major impact on low-income workers who used it to commute to and from work. The city, rightfully, said it wasn't a priority.

3. As for the curfew concept... so why don't you just not be out after curfew? The very foundation of the idea of a peaceful protest is that it's done within the confines of the law. You can literally apply for permits to protest and the police will shut down streets for you to do it in, so that you're at least partially protected from vehicles or other lawlessness. And they'll grant permits for like 12 hours a day to do this if there's a big enough crowd.

Another great example... there's videos from a beach town in California where commuters in vehicles drove through a crowd of people who were blocking the street, of which our liberal media outlets categorized as "peaceful protesters". Ignoring entirely the idea that there were large sidewalks 10 feet on either side of the road, where several hundred other more "responsible" people had chosen to protest, and that the road wasn't shut down, because there was no organization. I'm pretty sure by like the age of 4 I was taught not to walk down the middle of a road where cars drive by. And then everybody acts surprised when commuters in vehicles, who are suddenly surrounded by people they don't know and have no ability to even move the vehicle, panic and look for a way to get out of the situation. It's not rocket science.

So what's going to be achieved at 2am? Nothing. That's why all of these violent outbreaks you see are at night. The peaceful protests are mostly in the daylight, planned, scheduled, organized, and safe. The act of ignoring a curfew, by definition, is an aggressive act, so its already acknowledging you know you're breaking the law.

 

[rossihunter2]

1. There isn't a suggestion that property is more valuable than life, though I could easily argue there's a significant number of lives worldwide that are worth a hell of a lot less than people think. There's no shortage of people who suck off the government tit, provide practically no practical output or benefit to society whatsoever.
Destruction of property that doesn't belong to you in "protest" of something is, by my definition, a riot. A riot doesn't require human life being taken, nor does a person dying justify rioting either.
2. How much was escalated from peaceful protesting? I don't know, and neither does anybody else. I do know there's no shortage of incidents of property destruction, looting, fires, etc. that occur without any police escalation, mostly because the police aren't even in the area, so there's nothing to escalate. Its just people with little or no character taking advantage of those are helpless to stop them, and using the mob mentality to get their 15 minutes.

I've lived in two mid-size cities during two different eras of protests. I found the police response to be genius. Genius in the sense that they did nothing to stop the protesters. They let them do whatever they wanted, including burn buildings/buses/cars, and destroy infrastructure, like businesses. And then, when the dust settles, they rightfully denied any sort of economic stimulus or support for the community, because this wasn't occurring in rich people neighborhoods who could afford to rebuild. These were minorities destroying critical infrastructure they needed to survive, earn income, etc. And those businesses and infrastructure never rebounded, and the area went into even further economic divide than it was already in. And the people involved earned 100% of the economic disadvantage achieved from it.

I kid you not... I live in a city where "protesters" lit fire to several mass-transit buses in a week, they had several people on camera, and rightfully prosecuted. Three months later, there was a protest outside a City Counsel meeting demanding the City pay for new buses, since the loss in transportation and caused significant delays to mass-transit and had a major impact on low-income workers who used it to commute to and from work. The city, rightfully, said it wasn't a priority.

3. As for the curfew concept... so why don't you just not be out after curfew? The very foundation of the idea of a peaceful protest is that it's done within the confines of the law. You can literally apply for permits to protest and the police will shut down streets for you to do it in, so that you're at least partially protected from vehicles or other lawlessness. And they'll grant permits for like 12 hours a day to do this if there's a big enough crowd.

Another great example... there's videos from a beach town in California where commuters in vehicles drove through a crowd of people who were blocking the street, of which our liberal media outlets categorized as "peaceful protesters". Ignoring entirely the idea that there were large sidewalks 10 feet on either side of the road, where several hundred other more "responsible" people had chosen to protest, and that the road wasn't shut down, because there was no organization. I'm pretty sure by like the age of 4 I was taught not to walk down the middle of a road where cars drive by. And then everybody acts surprised when commuters in vehicles, who are suddenly surrounded by people they don't know and have no ability to even move the vehicle, panic and look for a way to get out of the situation. It's not rocket science.

So what's going to be achieved at 2am? Nothing. That's why all of these violent outbreaks you see are at night. The peaceful protests are mostly in the daylight, planned, scheduled, organized, and safe. The act of ignoring a curfew, by definition, is an aggressive act, so its already acknowledging you know you're breaking the law.

you have a very ghoulish idea of fairness - you're consistent i'll give you that

 

[rmcjacket23]

you have a very ghoulish idea of fairness - you're consistent i'll give you that

I call it an actual idea of fairness, as opposed to a fake one where we appease everyone.

 

[JO_75]

Hey look everyone, we can open up salons and get our hair cuts, hair done and you don't even have to wear a mask inside when you do so because our Speaker of The House got her hair done in a salon that was closed and didn't even wear a mask. The salon Owner was not happy when she found out Nancy used her salon despite being told to keep her business closed due to the pandemic.

Edit: The source quoted was from the BBC website that for some reason embedded a video instead of just the link to the article.

San Francisco's pandemic orders do not allow hair salons to open indoors.

Thousands of California businesses have shut permanently amid virus curbs.

Mrs Pelosi - who always wears masks in public - often admonishes Republicans to "listen to the science" on the pandemic.

The salon owner, Erica Kious, told Fox News she rents chairs to a stylist, who notified her that Mrs Pelosi's assistant had called, saying her boss wanted to come in for a wash and blow dry.

Ms Kious told the cable network: "It was a slap in the face that she went in, you know, that she feels that she can just go and get her stuff done while no one else can go in, and I can't work."

The hashtags #PelosiMustGo and #PelosiBlowOut were trending on Twitter until Twitter magically made those tags no longer trend.

On top of this, the Philly Mayor who shut down businesses and restaurants was seen dining indoors at a Maryland Restaurant. As of now, Maryland allows up to a 25% capacity for dining in but Philly is still closed.

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2...ant-receives-heavy-criticism-on-social-media/

 

[rmcjacket23]

Hey look everyone, we can open up salons and get our hair cuts, hair done and you don't even have to wear a mask inside when you do so because our Speaker of The House got her hair done in a salon that was closed and didn't even wear a mask. The salon Owner was not happy when she found out Nancy used her salon despite being told to keep her business closed due to the pandemic.

Edit: The source quoted was from the BBC website that for some reason embedded a video instead of just the link to the article.



The hashtags #PelosiMustGo and #PelosiBlowOut were trending on Twitter until Twitter magically made those tags no longer trend.

On top of this, the Philly Mayor who shut down businesses and restaurants was seen dining indoors at a Maryland Restaurant. As of now, Maryland allows up to a 25% capacity for dining in but Philly is still closed.

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2...ant-receives-heavy-criticism-on-social-media/

The Pelosi criticism is fair.

Don't really understand the criticism of the Philly Mayor though. They're two different cities with two different exposure levels. Just because his city doesn't allow dine-in restaurants doesn't mean nobody else should or that he shouldn't partake in one that does allow for it. As long as he's following the guidelines set forth by whatever jurisdiction he's in, then the criticism is just trolling to me.

 

[JO_75]

The Pelosi criticism is fair.

Don't really understand the criticism of the Philly Mayor though. They're two different cities with two different exposure levels. Just because his city doesn't allow dine-in restaurants doesn't mean nobody else should or that he shouldn't partake in one that does allow for it. As long as he's following the guidelines set forth by whatever jurisdiction he's in, then the criticism is just trolling to me.

I only brought up the Philly Mayor because people in Philly were angry about that.

I hope people realize that voting and making changes on the local level is just as important as voting for President. The governors and mayors are the ones who have more control over the local police. We wouldn't need a national law for police reform if everything was taken care of locally.

 

[JAAM]

I’m dying to see a Biden v Trump debate. The only saving grace the liberals have is if Kamala “lift them legs in the air” Harris takes command

So excited for tonight