The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

[Willbacker]

i mean tbh ive never had a problem with this - why does their status as a celebrity stop them from being able to publicly express an opinion - if there's a political/societal issue that they believe in strongly then they may feel like its important for them not to waste the privilege of their platform by staying quiet - i also dont get this idea that politics should be a taboo subject in sports or acting etc. it's a topic of conversation that affects literally everone so i never really understand why people shouldnt talk about it

The only reason these people have a platform is they are entertainers that the public thru their money have given them and we could care less about their politics just like they would care less about mine. In other words that's not what they're paid for.

 

[Willbacker]

So, I always see this sentiment thrown around that Obama left the country divided. What specifically did he do that would have divided the country?

I think it is worth mentioning that Obama didn't have anything to have the country rally around like second Bush who had 9/11 to rally the country with.

How bout the way he supports BLM, invited them several times to the WH and was anti police by judging before he had facts just for starters. Look at all the destruction and racial marches that went on. Not uniting.

 

[Willbacker]

The analysis by nonprofit and nonpartisan tax analysts like the Tax Policy Center: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/feature/analysis-tax-cuts-and-jobs-act

"We find the bill would reduce taxes on average for all income groups in both 2019 and 2025. In general, higher income households receive larger average tax cuts as a percentage of after-tax income, with the largest cuts as a share of income going to taxpayers in the 95th to 99th percentiles of the income distribution. On average in 2027, taxes would rise modestly for the lowest-income group,chang e little for middle-income groups, and decrease for higher-income groups."

Not sure how this is since tax rates for the wealthy are staying at the same threshold at 39.6% unless you talking bout corporate tax rates which would bring back jobs from overseas going 35 to 20% and btw helps the working class. The estate tax would also help the wealthy but that's actually a double tax. Closing the loopholes on deductions on state and local taxes and just deductions in general ( which hurts me too btw since I reside in high tax Md ) hurts the wealthy bigtime.

What I get tired of hearing from the left is that this is a tax break only for the wealthy which is complete bullshit. And talking 2027 this is supposed to be revisited well before then.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

How bout the way he supports BLM, invited them several times to the WH and was anti police by judging before he had facts just for starters. Look at all the destruction and racial marches that went on. Not uniting.

Oh, so Obama said to go out and loot and riot? Pretty sure he talked against that behavior.

And nothing wrong with BLM as a group.

If we're going to blame Obama for blacks having race riots for equality, can I blame Trump for white supremecist marches and white shootings?

 

[The Raven]

Not sure how this is since tax rates for the wealthy are staying at the same threshold at 39.6% unless you talking bout corporate tax rates which would bring back jobs from overseas going 35 to 20% and btw helps the working class. The estate tax would also help the wealthy but that's actually a double tax. Closing the loopholes on deductions on state and local taxes and just deductions in general ( which hurts me too btw since I reside in high tax Md ) hurts the wealthy bigtime.

What I get tired of hearing from the left is that this is a tax break only for the wealthy which is complete bullshit. And talking 2027 this is supposed to be revisited well before then.

I dunno either, but I'm smart enough to know what I don't know, and I know for sure that I know less than the Tax Policy Center, which is staffed by prominent government experts, including ex-White House officials.

The left isn't saying that it's only for the rich. The left is saying that the rich benefit far more than the working and middle classes.

 

[rossihunter2]

The only reason these people have a platform is they are entertainers that the public thru their money have given them and we could care less about their politics just like they would care less about mine. In other words that's not what they're paid for.

I’m interested in their politics - they are also elevated by their position and if they feel strongly that something is wrong and needs changing and it affects their fans then they have a social responsibility to address it...

And so often a musicians career is built on political songs that are based in their experiences - performing certain songs are inherently political - would it be ok if they sang their political opinions to you?

 

[rossihunter2]

How bout the way he supports BLM, invited them several times to the WH and was anti police by judging before he had facts just for starters. Look at all the destruction and racial marches that went on. Not uniting.

So it is about race then... blm is a group that is inherently campaigning for equality - I don’t see what the problem with that is

He also never condemned the police unjustifiably

And what has any other president done to bring the country together and bridge racial divides?

 

[29BmoreBird22]

So it is about race then... blm is a group that is inherently campaigning for equality - I don’t see what the problem with that is

He also never condemned the police unjustifiably

And what has any other president done to bring the country together and bridge racial divides?

Well, there was the time that Lyndon B Johnson campaigned for equal rights and helped sign into effect the Civil Rights Act... only to have it repealed by the true American Hero, Ronald Reagan.

 

[Inqui]

I dunno either, but I'm smart enough to know what I don't know, and I know for sure that I know less than the Tax Policy Center, which is staffed by prominent government experts, including ex-White House officials.

The left isn't saying that it's only for the rich. The left is saying that the rich benefit far more than the working and middle classes.

Without having read the report, I'd say the group's referring to the effective tax rate. The US base rates are high but obviously there's a laundry list of deductions for stuff (there are some interesting Treasury reports out there on the subject) and that's the kind of stuff people like Warren Buffet have in mind when they call for tax reform - closing certain loopholes that disproportionately benefit the wealthiest.

I'd imagine the TPC's looking at each tax provision in the new bill and assessing how everyone gets affected by them, instead of simply looking at the headline figures. One example would be the changes to the sale of shares, which would now be based on selling the oldest shares (effectively an increase in a capital gains tax, without being marketed as such), which affects middle-income earners the most.

 

[rossihunter2]

Well, there was the time that Lyndon B Johnson campaigned for equal rights and helped sign into effect the Civil Rights Act... only to have it repealed by the true American Hero, Ronald Reagan.

I was thinking more recently but that’s fair
- given how he was talking about Obama fixing a divide, that divide must have existed for a while before Obama so why didn’t any of those presidents not get criticised for “the divide”?

 

[Willbacker]

Oh, so Obama said to go out and loot and riot? Pretty sure he talked against that behavior.

And nothing wrong with BLM as a group.

If we're going to blame Obama for blacks having race riots for equality, can I blame Trump for white supremecist marches and white shootings?

No you cant. There have been plenty of white supremacist marches before Trump but race riots started under Obama.

I dunno either, but I'm smart enough to know what I don't know, and I know for sure that I know less than the Tax Policy Center, which is staffed by prominent government experts, including ex-White House officials.

The left isn't saying that it's only for the rich. The left is saying that the rich benefit far more than the working and middle classes.

Except its not true and no they keep saying its a tax cut for the wealthy.

So it is about race then... blm is a group that is inherently campaigning for equality - I don’t see what the problem with that is

He also never condemned the police unjustifiably

And what has any other president done to bring the country together and bridge racial divides?

You don't see a problem? The riots and the looting. " Pigs in a blanket. Fry them like bacon." Stirring up anti police sentiment. Disturbing other peoples lives in general by obstruction. Disrupting political platforms like the Bernie incident which was beyond ridiculous

Also Obama never condemned the police unjustifiably? He said cops acted stupidly in the Cambridge Mass incident He condemned the police in the Baltimore and Ferguson incidents where the police were found innocent which gets me back to BLM marching with their "Hands up. Don't shoot" which turned out to be a total fabrication and it was black witnesses that served justice in this by telling the truth.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

No you cant. There have been plenty of white supremacist marches before Trump but race riots started under Obama.

You don't see a problem? The riots and the looting. " Pigs in a blanket. Fry them like bacon." Stirring up anti police sentiment. Disturbing other peoples lives in general by obstruction. Disrupting political platforms like the Bernie incident which was beyond ridiculous

Also Obama never condemned the police unjustifiably? He said cops acted stupidly in the Cambridge Mass incident He condemned the police in the Baltimore and Ferguson incidents where the police were found innocent which gets me back to BLM marching with their "Hands up. Don't shoot" which turned out to be a total fabrication and it was black witnesses that served justice in this by telling the truth.

Oh, wait, you mean that there was never any race riots before? *checks history and sees 1967*. *Checks history and sees Los Angeles Riots of 1992 under George H. W. Bush*.

No, I'll blame Trump for the white supremecist marches because I didn't see any under Obama or Bush, to my memory, and they cropped up under Trump, so I'm going to blame him. I mean, after all, he did fail to condemn them, so he must really like them.

The same way that not everyone wants police represented by the actions of few, we cannot judge the actions of BLM as a whole based on what people in a city said. I support BLM. Does that make me a bad person or do I hate the police?

Yeah because police have never been controversially let off the hook, largely because of their status as a police officer and the reputation it carries.

And speaking of the police, I would largely put relations between blacks and police as the number one reason for people to pinpoint that as the time that "race relations got worse." Polls showed that race relations were actually trending upward under Obama, until Michael Brown was shot. Really, his ratings took a massive hit and after that point, the amount of police being recorded for shootings has spiked.

Given the increased prevalence of social media. Facebook wasn't even made public until 2006 and Twitter wasn't live until 2006, I believe. You really think that this coupled with more people filming had NOTHING to do with the uptick in race riots? It didn't matter who was president; this is why race relations got worse.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

I was thinking more recently but that’s fair
- given how he was talking about Obama fixing a divide, that divide must have existed for a while before Obama so why didn’t any of those presidents not get criticised for “the divide”?

That's really the biggest time in our history and look what it came on the heels of- massive protests, marches, and horrible relations. People don't grasp that change is uncomfortable and will often lead to things like this where we have a shooting and people get outraged and make their voices heard any way they can.

Why was no other president tasked with fixing the divide? Because Obama was black. Obama never made that a main priority, but because he was black, he sure as hell got tasked with it.

 

[rossihunter2]

That's really the biggest time in our history and look what it came on the heels of- massive protests, marches, and horrible relations. People don't grasp that change is uncomfortable and will often lead to things like this where we have a shooting and people get outraged and make their voices heard any way they can.

Why was no other president tasked with fixing the divide? Because Obama was black. Obama never made that a main priority, but because he was black, he sure as hell got tasked with it.

yeah its crazy and what's crazier is it took the assassination of a president and the turmoil around it to allow lyndon johnson to get the civil rights act into law
and as much as he's lauded for supporting civil rights - he also took his damn time no voting rights and his hand was essentially forced because MLK called for the selma march and they ended up getting attacked unprovoked on national tv

 

[29BmoreBird22]

yeah its crazy and what's crazier is it took the assassination of a president and the turmoil around it to allow lyndon johnson to get the civil rights act into law
and as much as he's lauded for supporting civil rights - he also took his damn time no voting rights and his hand was essentially forced because MLK called for the selma march and they ended up getting attacked unprovoked on national tv

Johnson actually was pretty tactful in how he approached getting the Civil Rights Act to even get to voting in the first place. While Kennedy gets a lot of credit for even proposing it, I don't know if he finds the same ability to get it passed like Johnson.

A big issue for the Voting Act was likely the timing. Barry Goldwater VEHEMENTLY opposed any rights for blacks and with the Voting Act coming to congress just before the Republicans chose him as their candidate, many Republicans didn't want to support that bill while simultaneously supporting a president who went against that bill with such great adamant hatred.

 

[rossihunter2]

Johnson actually was pretty tactful in how he approached getting the Civil Rights Act to even get to voting in the first place. While Kennedy gets a lot of credit for even proposing it, I don't know if he finds the same ability to get it passed like Johnson.

oh i agree with that - johnson deserves enormous credit for getting that piece of legislation done

 

[29BmoreBird22]

oh i agree with that - johnson deserves enormous credit for getting that piece of legislation done

Like I said, though- Obama being black is what put him on the map to try to bridge these gaps. It also doesn't help that he was in a day and age of Twitter and FB just now becoming huge and videos of police shootings/brutality spread like wildfire over there, so race riots are naturally move prevalent.

 

[RavensMania]

I don't think so. Most GOP voters I know didn't think this would happen. They seemed to think it would be a middle class tax cut with tax reform to close the tax loopholes the rich get. That's what Trump promised them. Too bad it's not what he and the GOP is giving them.

I thought this is what would happen. Trump isn’t someone I could believe at his word. Now im fiscally conservative, but consider myself Libertarian, not Republican.

 

[The Raven]

Except its not true and no they keep saying its a tax cut for the wealthy..

As a now active Democrat who frequently socializes with other active Democrats, I can tell you unequivocally that we are not saying that. We're pretty firmly saying it's a tax cut that disproportionately helps the rich.

 

[The Raven]

I thought this is what would happen. Trump isn’t someone I could believe at his word. Now im fiscally conservative, but consider myself Libertarian, not Republican.

Ya know, I'm not sure what's worse