Lol, I’m just kidding with you. Who you voted for is your business and your business only.
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The Well-Mannered Politics Thread
- Thread starter usmccharles
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I think our last 2 presidents were the most hated ever. I mean It seems like nobody likes Trump or Obama IMO.
i didnt realise that was the impression in the US - as a foreigner the outside impression we all had was that obama was incredibly empathetic, presidential, cool, funny and genuine while trump comes off as a scary vitriolic buffoon
I'm not saying I feel that way. I'm saying the people I communicate with think that.
Inqui
Pro Bowler
What got Trump over the line came down to something like 77,000 votes combined in a few traditionally blue states. I'm guessing you have a better finger on the pulse than any of us in one of those states, but you'd imagine the path to victory goes through those states again - so it depends on whether the Democrats can get their asses into gear (kicking Bill and Hillary out would be a huge start - both their brands are way too toxic these days) or whether an establishment Republican like Kasich can make a run for it.
Instinctively I feel like the rage vote (the "get the useless bums out of office and change everything" vote) that Trump perfected the art of harnessing would be damn near impossible to run on as an incumbent, but he's still casting himself as an outsider so maybe he could pull it off. Irrespective of my thoughts on him as a president, he's got to be one of the best TV/campaigning/marketing guys there's ever been.
Oldfaithful
Hall of Famer
Obama was a divisive figure in the country. I was not a fan of his presidency(though I don't think he was nearly as bad as several on the right suggest) overall because I do think he played an integral role in dividing the country(and if you want my honest opinion, both of the previous presidents are to blame for that.. As well as Congress members).
A lot of Liberals criticized Obama for "not being liberal enough". Conservatives believe that he single handedly ruined the country. Now, neither of these are true imo. At times, I thought Obama was a little too liberal. Again, my viewpoints on social issues will more often than not align with the left, but I'm a fiscal conservative through and through. Sure, Obama more or less demonized the image of the Republican Party in this country, but the members of congress routinely do the same. It's a never ending cycle of bullshit.
If Trump somehow finds a way to actually, "drain the swamp", then I will have no choice but to think that he is a good president. I hate the people in Congress with a passion. Far more than I could ever hate Trump, and my opinion of the Donald is very very low so that should say something.
Ironic as it may be, I hate politics. Even though I'm a political science major. I have no friends anyway so I don't care about making enemies but if you want my two cents here it is. America is knee deep in shit right now because both parties have become increasingly polarized. Now if you have read my opinions you know that I am a social liber, and a fiscal conservative. The only reason why I am a registered republican in this country is because I swing a tad more towards the right than I do the left.
I am fiscally conservative, and for the most part am in favor of lower taxes, but I also understand that social safety nets are necessary. Some people cannot take care of themselves, whether they were born with a birth defect, or whether something tragic happened to them. I think the country needs to pay back the veterans who served and were severely wounded in combat, because they put their lives on the line and we owe them one as a government. In spite of the fact that I am catholic, and am a massive proponent of good old family values(strong connections with the family, putting the family first, teaching your family members right and wrong, etc.. Which a lot of the kids I go to school with absolutely loath btw. Sure, I'm not particuarly close with my family, but I am a very independent person. I do keep in touch with them and check up on them every once in awhile) but I am pro choice for scientific reasons and am pro gay marriage. I actually think that women in a lot of ways are better than men, so I'm obviously for equal rights IN GENERAL. I am pro scientific research, and do think that the government should put more funding into it. That said, I am also pro second amendment. I think stricter regulations need to be applied, but also see the need for why they should not be too strict.
What's wrong with the country? Well, for starters the politicians, both sides, are fucking assholes and/or morons with the maturity of a 14 year old. Trump is just an example of that. He's not as stupid as people think he is(though is clearly not a good fit as president.. But let's be real here. Only 20% of his voters ACTUALLY liked him.. Hillary was a terrible idea too. I want a woman president too, but not her. So much corruption, and untrustworthyness there. Her problem was that I couldn't trust a word coming out of her mouth. I hated both so much that I voted third party). Here's what I mean.
For every moderate democrat or republican(people I actually like the most) there are 4 members who are extreme nowadays.
The Tea Party/ The Far Rightis the scum of the earth with primitive social ideas and they take religion a little too literally. I am all for belief in god. I am a Catholic with a strong faith. I pray to Jesus Christ. But I don't agree with EVERYTHING in the Bible. I think that god wants equality for all. The far right claims to love veterans, but will turn their back on anyone, a veteran included, who doesn't agree with them. They have divided the party so much that it can't get anything done anymore, and have ruined the reputation of the party as a whole. Moderate Republicans are not representative of these idiots. They are a silent majority within the party and no one wants to run anymore because they don't want to put up with the bullshit from the far right. These fuckers are a MASSIVE part of the problem, and Trump is a merely a consequence of it. They can go fuck themselves in the ass with a cactus.
SJWs/the Far left are just as bad content wise, but far more annoying. Here's the thing you fucking idiots. You claim that you want "equality for all". Yet you go on to demonize Christians, Jewish people, white people, cisgender people, straight people, men, and "straight white males". Yes, straight white men have a long, and cruel history in this country of oppressing minorities. I'm a minority myself, and I have experience racism.. But they don't have the ability to use logic. Ignoring history may be foolish, but you should not punish the current generation for the previous generation's mistakes. That's only going to piss people off and accomplishes nothing. This is the most tolerant generation of people ever in this country and it's an indisputable fact. Yes, there are still going to be bad people. But the sad but honest truth is that racism and sexism, and homophobia will never die. Some people are either too stubborn to be properly educated, or they are just inherently bad. It's a country of 350 million people, you're bound to have a few bad apples. And they decide to fight racism with ANTIFA violence, and lack the intelligence to realize that by doing so they are stooping down to their level and being just as bad. Provoking violence is NEVER a good idea, and they go looking for a fight. They are also a MASSIVE part of the problem and are a massive reason why SEVERAL of my friends voted for Trump. Most of my friends are straight, white people, whom were consitently demonized for the color of their skin, sexual orientation, and sex. Most SJWs are too stupid to realize that they are being racist towards white people, oppressive towards straight people, and sexist towards men. NONE of these actions are okay, and they pushed a ton of my friends to go in Trump's direction. A notion I disagreed with, but when I saw their actions firsthand I understood completely why they voted the way they did. These assholes can go fuck themselves in the ass with a cactus too. Identity politics is BULLSHIT. You should judge people for their CHARACTER, not their CHARACTERISTICS. Who cares if someone is black, white, asian, male, female, trans, gay, straight? They're people. And at the end of the day, NONE of us matter. We're gonna die anyway. So why oppress others, it's pointless.
A common denominator here? Neither side is willing to listen to the other. Hell, they don't listen to the moderates within their party, which is stupid since the number of the moderates within each party is increasing significantly.
I hate politics, but love democracy. I find that the most logical and a feasible solution to every pertaining socialism contains ideas from both sides. My solution to gun control for example is very moderate. My solution to ending drug problems is also moderate. I think that their needs to be a limit on how much we SHOULD cut tax cuts and the democrats should pitch in ideas. The United States was ultimately the hegemonic superpower of the world from 1945-the present because up until Bush 2 both parties were willing to work together. Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Reagan, Bush 1, and Clinton were all willing to listen to the other side and most of them were willing to compromise in some capacity(And yes.. All of them did it. Reagan too. He had a democratic congress for the majority of his presidency, and he still got shit done for a reason). Nowadays, the media, and the increasingly willingness of people to go towards the extremes has completely eliminated the idea of democracy.
It's a shame really. The benefits of debate are that you get to see both sides of the argument. And oftentimes, unless you're dealing with an extremist idiot, there is no clear right answer. Having come from a family of affluence, and having met SEVERAL influential people in the business world, and politics, a simple observation that I have made is that the most successful people in the world are the ones who understand how to operate in the grey. You should listen to the other side even if you don't agree with them. You shouldn't try to demonize their point(unless it presents an immediate harm to others.. news flash, most opinions don't do this on either side). You should listen.. Be reasonable and not abrasive by using ad homenim attacks. If you disagree with them, try to pick apart their points, not their character. But listen to them.. The other side has merit and validity. And the god honest truth is, history remembers all of the presidents(sans Bush 1, he's a more divisive figure) I listen in the previous paragraph as generally successful ones. Both parties. People liked them, the country had immediate success under them. Both ways can work.
Want to fix the country? The ironic answer is that people need to shut the fuck up and listen.
that's nothing particularly new, the ravens and jags did something similar in london after trump's comments originally
Because the country is so divided, I’d agree with this sentiment. I’d also agree with your statement and I’m not a democrat or republican.
Tank
Hall of Famer
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Trump is, was and always will be an asshole, but he is the consummate manager and far from being a bufoon. If he would just keep his big effing mouth shut and continue on with business I think he could accomplish some great things.
Obama was a cool guy, like somebody you could go have a beer with and hang out. But IMO he was a huge failure in that he had an unprecedented opportunity to bring our nation together and he did the exact opposite and after 8 years left a nation divided. Really sucks.
Trump is, was and always will be an asshole, but he is the consummate manager and far from being a bufoon. If he would just keep his big effing mouth shut and continue on with business I think he could accomplish some great things.
what makes you say he's a good manager? not disputing you per se just wondering what you mean by it...
Tank
Hall of Famer
$3.1 billion net worth
didnt he inherit all of his initial capital and made less money than he would have if hed left his father's money in their original places...
Tank
Hall of Famer
lol....There's many a man that has inherited money but now have nothing. And it seems you may know more than I know about him, so I 'll leave it at that.
i wasnt saying he was bad with money just that i dunno that his still being rich is a great indicator of good management - especially given all his failed business ventures in the past and the multiple lawsuits/allegations of not paying workers etc. - that's just why i err on the side of him not being a great manager but im happy to change my opinion on that particular front given compelling evidence
Yeah and how many times did he use bankruptcy to his advantage.
Wasn't it obvious this is what would happen though.
The Raven
Veteran
I don't think so. Most GOP voters I know didn't think this would happen. They seemed to think it would be a middle class tax cut with tax reform to close the tax loopholes the rich get. That's what Trump promised them. Too bad it's not what he and the GOP is giving them.
Trump promised them trickle down economics which is a staple of republican and conservative economic policy - and there is no evidence that leaving the rich with more money helps middle and working classes
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