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2018 Secondary

Y do people get so bent out of shape whenever somebody doesn't like a pick?? Some of you act downright offended like somebody called your gf ugly. Like every top50 pick is going to work out. What is the reaction gonna be if he is a bust?? Saying bs like you don't know what you are looking at. Your opinion is stupid to say that. WTF. Some of you act like you are on a payroll to judge talent. To many unemployed football scouts.

The more you argue he is going to be great.
The more embarrassing it is going to be when he gets roasted repeatedly at cornerback. Some people aren't going to like all the picks. While some have never met top60 pick he didn't think was amazing. Whenever somebody has an opinion you don't like you respond by attacking the credibility. Like it's going to increase the odds of the player being great. It's one thing to disagree it different to attack somebody cuz don't like an opinion.
 
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Truth said:
I understand that, however, he's still an elite talent. He's arguably one of the most polished receivers I've ever scouted, which isn't a stretch given his immediate production. I have a tough time envisioning Lee outperforming Beckham Jr. It's a high bar to set for any WR. Could Lee break the century mark? It's possible. Would be a difficult task with the mouths to feed around him. But in the comparison between the two, talent wise, it's less about the one-handed catches and more about the hands, confidence in traffic, and radius (I'm unsure how Lee being smarter was measured). All three categories are likely to be led by Beckham Jr. in most comparisons on his own merits, and they're exceedingly furthered by Lee's struggles with both focus drops and contested catches, which are significant aspects in determining how much an outside receiver can be leaned on. We've seen players overcome either one or the other. But having both is often outright debilitating. I'd be better understanding about 12 catch game notion if the looks were sparse, but he wasn't short on opportunities this season. He played over 800 snaps this season and saw over 100 targets. He saw 2.8 snaps less per game than Emmanuel Sanders, 7.4 less than Julio Jones. And the most Lee managed despite Allen Robinson's inconsistencies and other skill players struggling was a career-high 7 receptions. Even with roughly 25% more snaps (Which would vault him into the Top 10) and better QB play, it's not overly reasonable to expect that number to literally almost double to 12. He's done it multiple times in his sophomore season at USC, yes. But the NFL is a different animal. If you're not a legitimate threat outside of the hashes as an outside receiver against tight coverage, CBs won't allow you to constantly eat on the inside. They'll simply shade their outside foot right at your center mass and employ the sideline as a coworker. With that in mind, 12 catch games are unrealistic unless the plays are specifically manufactured to put the player in space with decoys and rubs. And then the numbers become a larger byproduct of the system, which grants less credit to the player. In either case, with Perriman's skill-set, I doubt he'd ever need to break double-digit catches in order to be a full-fledged contributor. Targets, yes. But he can be a 5-7 catch receiver and still cross the 100 yard mark.
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I agree for most part. I do think Marqise is a threat outside the hash and contested catches. When he has to. I do think he is held back by many things you stated. As in good weapons around him. A terrible offensive line and system. A young QB clearly rattled by a disgraceful line and very bad system.
 
Sledge Hammer said:
Y do people get so bent out of shape whenever somebody doesn't like a pick?? Some of you act downright offended like somebody called your gf ugly. Like every top50 pick is going to work out. What is the reaction gonna be if he is a bust?? Saying bs like you don't know what you are looking at. Your opinion is stupid to say that. WTF. Some of you act like you are on a payroll to judge talent. To many unemployed football scouts.

The more you argue he is going to be great.
The more embarrassing it is going to be when he gets roasted repeatedly at cornerback. Some people aren't going to like all the picks. While some have never met top60 pick he didn't think was amazing. Whenever somebody has an opinion you don't like you respond by attacking the credibility. Like it's going to increase the odds of the player being great. It's one thing to disagree it different to attack somebody cuz don't like an opinion.
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Because all we hear from the guys who don't like the pick is «Bama CB gonna get roasted». Mkay. Even we (Humphrey's supporters) know his issues more than his deflectors. That's how low the debate is right now. Yes Humphrey is full of flaws but none can't be corrected. Eli Apple is working out pretty well and Humphrey is basically a bullyish and more instinctive version of Apple (this is a pretty bad analysis but I'm referencing to their issues as prospects being quite close). So why wouldn't Humphrey work? Because some didn't like his tape. Gunna get rusted. Mkay.
I, myself, am not even a fan of the pick, I would have taken a handful of prospects before him. But 1) it's not just about the player but his fit in the team (see: Neal, Keanu) 2) Ozzie could roast any of us in 30 seconds on the debate.
I mean you don't like it, fine, but try to raise the damn level cause what I'm reading is pitiful at times.
 
Its fine to not like a pick but those reasons have to based in reality. When people were saying the Ravens might pick Ross I would not have said "I dont like the John Ross pick because he is not fast enough to play WR in the NFL." Basically the minimum requirement for criticizing a pick is that your criticisms have to at least be grounded in reality. That is not a very high bar to ask so you can at least meet.

Citing a players strengths and pretending they are his weaknesses or seeing the Ravens sign a top 5 safety for far under market value and deciding to criticize his 40 time as the basis for why its a bad deal is not basing your criticisms in reality, its fishing for a reason to bash something and not caring if its sensible or not. For example if you wanted to criticize that deal a smarter way to do it would have been to ask if our safeties skillsets were complimentary of each other or if they might in fact not synergize well at all.
 
Adreme said:
Its fine to not like a pick but those reasons have to based in reality. When people were saying the Ravens might pick Ross I would not have said "I dont like the John Ross pick because he is not fast enough to play WR in the NFL." Basically the minimum requirement for criticizing a pick is that your criticisms have to at least be grounded in reality. That is not a very high bar to ask so you can at least meet.

Citing a players strengths and pretending they are his weaknesses or seeing the Ravens sign a top 5 safety for far under market value and deciding to criticize his 40 time as the basis for why its a bad deal is not basing your criticisms in reality, its fishing for a reason to bash something and not caring if its sensible or not. For example if you wanted to criticize that deal a smarter way to do it would have been to ask if our safeties skillsets were complimentary of each other or if they might in fact not synergize well at all.
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In your world it isn't a good basis. And it's more likely a homer fishes for reasons to like a pick. Than a normal fan fishing for reasons to not like the pick. Cuz what kinda fan wouldn't want the player to be really good?? And don't act like 40 times don't mean anything. Sure it's not the tell all. But on the flip side it isn't totally irrelevant. And if the steelers signed him everybody here would be laughing at his 40 time. I did say he played faster than his 40 time. But he is not a safety you would leave on any good receivers.
 
Sledge Hammer said:
In your world it isn't a good basis. And it's more likely a homer fishes for reasons to like a pick. Than a normal fan fishing for reasons to not like the pick. Cuz what kinda fan wouldn't want the player to be really good?? And don't act like 40 times don't mean anything. Sure it's not the tell all. But on the flip side it isn't totally irrelevant. And if the steelers signed him everybody here would be laughing at his 40 time. I did say he played faster than his 40 time. But he is not a safety you would leave on any good receivers.
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If the Steelers had signed Jefferson, I'd have cried.
 
Sledge Hammer said:
In your world it isn't a good basis. And it's more likely a homer fishes for reasons to like a pick. Than a normal fan fishing for reasons to not like the pick. Cuz what kinda fan wouldn't want the player to be really good?? And don't act like 40 times don't mean anything. Sure it's not the tell all. But on the flip side it isn't totally irrelevant. And if the steelers signed him everybody here would be laughing at his 40 time. I did say he played faster than his 40 time. But he is not a safety you would leave on any good receivers.
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Kam Chancellor had a 4.69s 40yd dash dude...
 
Sledge Hammer said:
In your world it isn't a good basis. And it's more likely a homer fishes for reasons to like a pick. Than a normal fan fishing for reasons to not like the pick. Cuz what kinda fan wouldn't want the player to be really good?? And don't act like 40 times don't mean anything. Sure it's not the tell all. But on the flip side it isn't totally irrelevant. And if the steelers signed him everybody here would be laughing at his 40 time. I did say he played faster than his 40 time. But he is not a safety you would leave on any good receivers.
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I strongly doubt that many here would ridicule his 40 time regardless of where he signed given that he's proven to have enough functional speed to succeed in the NFL. It's akin to watching someone like Alfred Morris rush for 1,200+ yards in his first two seasons and then criticizing the fact that he ran a 4.67. It doesn't have nearly the same relevance after the fact given that the slower 40s are often used as potential indicators of a ceiling cap, so when they're not, it's puzzling to mention as a negative after they've been overcome. It does matter from the standpoint of the best type of usage. You're not going to line up Jefferson in man coverage against receivers and expect him to be successful, but you wouldn't do the same with Landon Collins and it doesn't stop him from being a lights-out safety, a game-changer if you will. You would assume that our FO and DC are aware of his limitations and that they won't put him in detrimental situations, so harping on it at this point doesn't hold nearly as much weight as it did pre-draft.
 
Sledge Hammer said:
Beckham always rubbed me the wrong way. Even b4 he showed his true colors I believed he would show himself to be a thuggish jerk. I rooted for Marqise. Marqise could maybe outperform him in a timing offense and good QB. He may never make the one ganders like Beckham. But I think he is smarter and will do better in a timing offense that requires precision. Perriman has that ridiculous catch radius. But I don't think he makes consistent plays in intermediate routes with separation and timing. To consistently to be somebody that can Catch 12 footballs in a single game. Unless his routes get better. But he is a top shelf big play threat always. If his routes get better, a lot better he could be unreal
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you're just wrong - odell beckham is incredible - it feels like all you know about him is his one handed catches but he's an electric receiver throughout the route tree, has pace, instincts, catch radius like you say but also the ability and consistency to make catches - beckham is a 1A receiver - arguably the best in the league and will be for a long time - he's a franchise-building talent - no way marquise is better than him in any situation whatsoever - beckham's only flaw is character and if he stays as good as he is then there is no one in the world who'd begrudge him being a dick given how good he is
 
rossihunter2 said:
you're just wrong - odell beckham is incredible - it feels like all you know about him is his one handed catches but he's an electric receiver throughout the route tree, has pace, instincts, catch radius like you say but also the ability and consistency to make catches - beckham is a 1A receiver - arguably the best in the league and will be for a long time - he's a franchise-building talent - no way marquise is better than him in any situation whatsoever - beckham's only flaw is character and if he stays as good as he is then there is no one in the world who'd begrudge him being a dick given how good he is
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You have it all wrong. I know he is more than one handers. I said that is all he has over Marqise. And I heard the whispers coming out of college he is a thug. Not a diva but complete thug. And rumors all over his teammates don't really like him
 
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Sledge Hammer said:
You have it all wrong. I know he is more than one handers. I said that is all he has over Marqise. And I heard the whispers coming out of college he is a thug. Not a diva but complete thug. And rumors all over his teammates don't really like him
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Beckham has one handers, and literally everything else over lee. There isn't a single thing lee does as well as Beckham. You're delusional
 
I prefer Beckham's teammate at LSU.
I liked the Jernigan pick but really wanted Landry for us.
 
Edgar said:
I prefer Beckham's teammate at LSU.
I liked the Jernigan pick but really wanted Landry for us.
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No way...

Landry needs manufactured touches... I mean he's really good after the catch and in space, but he's not going to win consistently on the outside. Hes not a guy youre basing your game plan around. He's in a good spot with a guy like Gase who is creative and will find ways to get him the ball early.... behind or at the line of scrimmage where hes getting the ball in stride...

But Beckham is a game wrecker. Even when hes not touching the ball hes commanding so much attention it makes everything easier for his team mates, and hes a threat to score on literally any play (as we saw first hand as soon as Jimmy went out..... twice.).

Landry is a nice receiver. Sure, would love to have him as our slot guy... anyone would. But if Landry doesnt have someone on the outside taking the top off, you can bring your safeties down and sit on him, and hes not going to hurt you that bad. He'll make his 5-10 yd grabs here and there, but hes not busting you open.

Beckham in any offense, with any QB is going to be a real problem. If Landry doesnt have packages or plays designed for him, or a play caller willing to force feed him the ball - is never going to be a great receiver on his own right.
 
Boldnpurpblack said:
No way...

Landry needs manufactured touches... I mean he's really good after the catch and in space, but he's not going to win consistently on the outside. Hes not a guy youre basing your game plan around. He's in a good spot with a guy like Gase who is creative and will find ways to get him the ball early.... behind or at the line of scrimmage where hes getting the ball in stride...

But Beckham is a game wrecker. Even when hes not touching the ball hes commanding so much attention it makes everything easier for his team mates, and hes a threat to score on literally any play (as we saw first hand as soon as Jimmy went out..... twice.).

Landry is a nice receiver. Sure, would love to have him as our slot guy... anyone would. But if Landry doesnt have someone on the outside taking the top off, you can bring your safeties down and sit on him, and hes not going to hurt you that bad. He'll make his 5-10 yd grabs here and there, but hes not busting you open.

Beckham in any offense, with any QB is going to be a real problem. If Landry doesnt have packages or plays designed for him, or a play caller willing to force feed him the ball - is never going to be a great receiver on his own right.
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I think he is saying that he would rather have landry than jernigan
 
I can see why we picked humprhey. We lost plenty of games because of lack of cbs.l wanted to see mosley and foster play together. Foster wouldve brung that vicious style back to our defense, but he also had injury concerns i believe.
 
Edgar said:
I prefer Beckham's teammate at LSU.
I liked the Jernigan pick but really wanted Landry for us.
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i really think landry is one of the most-overrated receivers in the league - he's good out of the slot, has a pretty sure set of hands and is great in space but the dolphins literally manufacture touches for him and there's a reason they hope every year that another receiver will emerge and its because landry is not someone an opponent needs to game plan for - he's a great number 2/3 out of the slot but that's it

Sledge Hammer said:
Are we talking football or acting ghetto??
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odell beckham jr is a player who will be double and triple teamed on a snap-to-snap basis for the rest of his playing career - he is virtually unplayable in man 1v1 situations - he is 100% in the top 3 receivers in the league with julio jones and antonio brown and arguably he's the best of all 3 - give me 1 convincing reason why marquise lee is even close to being a number 1 receiver on his own team let alone number 1 in the league like beckham...
 
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