The Offseason Thread

[RavensMania]

I get that most GMs do that but I was referring to how I was watching a video about differing GM styles a few months back and was fascinated with how the Rams like to frontload the guaranteed dollars so that they can cut bait in the last 2 years of a contract if they need to with no dead money. I just think a style like that could prove fruitful long term (though the deals that burned the Ravens in most cases burned them really early on).

Don’t confuse guaranteed dollars with the signing bonus. The signing bonus is spread out over the life of the contract. Other guaranteed dollars the GM can be creative with

 

[rossihunter2]

I get that most GMs do that but I was referring to how I was watching a video about differing GM styles a few months back and was fascinated with how the Rams like to frontload the guaranteed dollars so that they can cut bait in the last 2 years of a contract if they need to with no dead money. I just think a style like that could prove fruitful long term (though the deals that burned the Ravens in most cases burned them really early on).

there is a difference between guaranteed money and signing bonus

almost every team in the league frontloads the guaranteed money into the first 2 years of a multi-year deal - the ravens do it - almost every team in the league does it that way

the only guaranteed money at the end of any contract (i.e. dead cap) is signing bonus which you cant change how that hits - it's always even over a whole contract

 

[rossihunter2]

So you think the Fo should pay him whatever he wants because hes going to set the market?

i think the FO should pay CJ because he deserves to be paid and i think we should keep him - he's going to set the market wherever he goes - id rather it be here

 

[Willbacker]

if the market determines CJ's value then we're much less likely to retain him at a decent price...

And btw you're absolutely blind if you didn't see CJ bail once he realised he couldn't get to the QB - he dropped into the hot route passing lane and watched the QB's eyes knowing that it was an all-out blitz - so he got stonewalled - but he was part of an overload blitz so he knew he didn't have to get home he just had to occupy an OL if he couldn't and in the end he both occupied a lineman and dropped into the passing lane

and with regards to top 5 CJ is clearly top 5 - id say he's probably number 3 in the league - there's some promising guys on rookie contracts but you pretty tough to say they're ahead of mosley after 1 year and even then of the young guys in the league i think the only arguments you can make would be LVE and Darius Leonard who were both rookies

and if you count - then that's still top 5...

his year as a blitzer in 2018 was disappointing but his previous 4 seasons he's been a good blitzer and everyone seems to have this nonsensical opinion that he's a bad pass defender pretending they watch him every down when in fact they only notice plays like the Tyreek Hill miracle ball from Pat Mahomes and extrapolate and assume CJ's bad in pass defence - which is not the case - if he was bad as a pass defender he would not be a 3 down starter in the league let alone pro-bowl/all-pro every year

there's a reason why sizzle and the vets called this guy half-man-half-amazing since his rookie training camp

I guess he bailed when the QB threw the ball lol. The last 2 yrs I've seen a dropoff in his play and I've seen plenty of times where it was his fault on giving 1st down passing yds. I'll be there like "There's damn CJ not covering again". So if you believe he had a disappointing year blitzing but was otherwise good in the other years you don't see this as regression in a #1 defense? His best years were probally his 2nd and 3rd when he had strong companions in Daryl Smith and Zack Orr. Last 2 yrs avg at best. If you cant cover (man on man) in a league that passes 60% of the time you don't deserve to be the highest paid at your position. I also believe rookies should count in the top 5 consideration and right now I'd put both Dallas ILB's, Smith from Chicago and Leonard as better than CJ. If we want TE's running all over us then by all means open up the bank for CJ. It wouldn't surprize me if he hasn't already turned down a couple of offers. We need to quit with bad contracts. If he signs a 2 yr 20 mil contract I could buy that but no to anything over a Kuechley contract.

 

[Willbacker]

One of the things that both the Rams generally do and the 49ers did with Jimmy G is try to use there high cap space to frontload the high cap hits and guaranteed dollars so that especially in the Rams case the signing bonus is paid out after the first 2 years so that if you decide to move on there are not real negatives in terms of dead money. I kind of think a case like that could help with avoiding these situations where a player just has so much dead money that they drag the team down even after being cut

Ill use Tucker for instance. Lets pretend (because I like round numbers) that he signs a 4 year 30 million dollar deal (I said pretend) with an 8m signing bonus. If they let 5 million be a year 1 singing bonus and 3m be year 2 then both hits years 3 and 4 will be really low and if you decide he isnt worth it anymore (i said pretend) you can move on easily with no dead money issues dragging the team down without feeling like you are the Broncos paying 29M in cap hit after they likely cut Keenum just for the starting QB.

Basically your idea makes sense in one way. Hopefully I'm correct here but you don't nessassarily have to spread out the signing bonus evenly over the length of the contract but you can bunch more of that in at the beginning of the contract if you choose and then maybe pay a higher base salary as the contract goes along therefore making you able to cut a player 3 yrs into a 5 yr contract lets say but not suffer a financial dead money hit since the signing is spread thru the 1st 3 yrs of the contract. Personally I think its a good idea. Just not sure if a player would buy that tho.

 

[RavensMania]

Signing Bonus
A signing bonus is a lump sum of money to be paid to a player when he signs a contract. This bonus is often a key aspect of contract negotiations, because it is the only truly guaranteed money in any contract. Signing bonuses are not, however, counted in their entirety the year a player signs the contract. Instead, the dollar value is prorated over the length of the contract, up to a maximum of five years. That is only for accounting, though; the bonus is paid, in its entirety, at signing. Let's go back to our example contract. Let's assume Bob Player's contract includes a $3 million signing bonus. It would then be a three-year, $13 million contract, broken down as follows:

• $2 million ($1 million salary and $1 million signing bonus (prorated)) in year 1
• $5 million ($4 million salary and $1 million signing bonus (prorated)) in year 2
• $6 million ($5 million salary and $1 million signing bonus (prorated)) in year 3

However, while his "cap numbers" (the total dollar amount for which he counts against the salary cap in a given year) would be $2 million, $5 million and $6 million over the life of the contract, his actual payouts per year would be $4 million, $4 million and $5 million, because he received the entire bonus in year one.


Here is another example

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/9/6/17600618/nfl-salary-cap-2018-everything-to-know-about-salaries

 

[rossihunter2]

I guess he bailed when the QB threw the ball lol. The last 2 yrs I've seen a dropoff in his play and I've seen plenty of times where it was his fault on giving 1st down passing yds. I'll be there like "There's damn CJ not covering again". So if you believe he had a disappointing year blitzing but was otherwise good in the other years you don't see this as regression in a #1 defense? His best years were probally his 2nd and 3rd when he had strong companions in Daryl Smith and Zack Orr. Last 2 yrs avg at best. If you cant cover (man on man) in a league that passes 60% of the time you don't deserve to be the highest paid at your position. I also believe rookies should count in the top 5 consideration and right now I'd put both Dallas ILB's, Smith from Chicago and Leonard as better than CJ. If we want TE's running all over us then by all means open up the bank for CJ. It wouldn't surprize me if he hasn't already turned down a couple of offers. We need to quit with bad contracts. If he signs a 2 yr 20 mil contract I could buy that but no to anything over a Kuechley contract.

right so what i glean from this is that you only notice CJ when he gets beat - not when he doesn't get beat (which happens way more often) - and what about the times when he bails out his teammates etc.

i think his best year so far was probably 2016 but he's balled out 4 of the 5 years he's played and i see no particular regression this year from year 3 and 4...

and i dont think you really understand the MLB position in the NFL - yes it's partly about covering in man but in a league where TEs play like wideouts it's a schematic failure if your ILB is consistently covering receiving TEs 1v1 in man

i think the more telling pass defence is in zone when you play linebacker and CJ is brilliant against the pass in zone coverage - if you're a receiver running a shallow crosser within 5 yards of the LoS and you run through CJ's zone then he's gonna re route you and you're gonna know about it e.g. https://twitter.com/abukari/status/1069801709956947969 or this one in the same game also https://twitter.com/abukari/status/1070347798019796993 - if you're a qb and you want to throw over the top of CJ then you'd better have incredible touch because his length is gonna force you to make a much riskier throw

and beyond all that he makes the players around him better - he reads the game so well that he literally tells players where the play is going on many plays before the snap especially in the running game e.g. this play he makes for peanut https://twitter.com/abukari/status/1072324569158115328

he's not perfect - i think you'd find that no LB is - and CJ of course had a couple of bad games this year after he came back from his injury against the bengals - i think that's stayed in your mind because down the stretch especially after the bye, CJ was unbelievably good yet your enduring opinion of the season is that he didnt play well

 

[ravenslord]

As much as I’d like us to extend Mosley, I can certainly see us not paying him 14 to 15m per season, even with our 90m cap space in 2020. I could see us going after a player like Kwon Alexander who could be on a prove it deal due to his ACL tear.
If we don’t sign Mosley, I see Weddle back in Purple for one more season.

Weddle didn’t have a single pick the entire season , including the playoffs. You can’t have a Free Safety
with this stat period. He is very slow to the ball . I’d rather have Humphrey lead this team .

 

[ravenslord]

I can't see us keeping both Weddle and Mosley this year. If we can't resign Mosley then bank on us keeping Weddle even with his 9M bucks cap number.

Weddle sucks at this point in his career .Name one big play he made all season .

 

[Ellicottraven]

So......you can or can't see us keeping Weddle and Mosley?

You missed the 'operative' word 'both' there.... but then again you knew what I meant.

 

[Deebo813]

I guess he bailed when the QB threw the ball lol. The last 2 yrs I've seen a dropoff in his play and I've seen plenty of times where it was his fault on giving 1st down passing yds. I'll be there like "There's damn CJ not covering again". So if you believe he had a disappointing year blitzing but was otherwise good in the other years you don't see this as regression in a #1 defense? His best years were probally his 2nd and 3rd when he had strong companions in Daryl Smith and Zack Orr. Last 2 yrs avg at best. If you cant cover (man on man) in a league that passes 60% of the time you don't deserve to be the highest paid at your position. I also believe rookies should count in the top 5 consideration and right now I'd put both Dallas ILB's, Smith from Chicago and Leonard as better than CJ. If we want TE's running all over us then by all means open up the bank for CJ. It wouldn't surprize me if he hasn't already turned down a couple of offers. We need to quit with bad contracts. If he signs a 2 yr 20 mil contract I could buy that but no to anything over a Kuechley contract.

Idk if we can put the rookie lbs over him yet but at the same time they showed alot of promise so idk.. i dnt think he deserves luke type money but what he means to our team, they may have to...what you said all facts though

 

[RavensMania]

Ravens just cut Crabtree

 

[Deebo813]

Ravens just cut Crabtree

Not surprised at all

 

[JAAM]

Ravens just cut Crabtree

Thank God

 

[rossihunter2]

Not surprised at all

good first move - indicative that the FO really is going to have to overhaul the wr corps again - we currently have 4 wrs on our roster and 1 ERFA

those 5 guys are: Willie Snead, Chris Moore (who's a 4th receiver at best and only has a year left on his contract anyway), Jordan Lasley (redshirted), Jaleel Scott (I/Red as a rookie - may well have been cut otherwise), Quincy Adeboyejo (former udfa who's done nothing)

we have only 1 receiver on the roster who's ever started an NFL game and only 3 who've ever even been active on gameday (quincy was active for 1 whole game)

with crabtree gone for sure now and john brown a ufa whom we have seemingly not even approached it seems like we're prioritising remaking our wr corps again

 

[Deebo813]

good first move - indicative that the FO really is going to have to overhaul the wr corps again - we currently have 4 wrs on our roster and 1 ERFA

those 5 guys are: Willie Snead, Chris Moore (who's a 4th receiver at best and only has a year left on his contract anyway), Jordan Lasley (redshirted), Jaleel Scott (I/Red as a rookie - may well have been cut otherwise), Quincy Adeboyejo (former udfa who's done nothing)

we have only 1 receiver on the roster who's ever started an NFL game and only 3 who've ever even been active on gameday (quincy was active for 1 whole game)

with crabtree gone for sure now and john brown a ufa whom we have seemingly not even approached it seems like we're prioritising remaking our wr corps again

Do you think we go with one in 1st rnd?Its looking like decosta alreadt has this shit planned out.. he is making moves ahead of time and getting shit done..

 

[BaltRavens]

Thank God

Seems his drops contributed to his end.

 

[RavensMania]

I remember being ok with his average salary when we signed Crabtree, but didn't like how his cap ballooned up in year two. That being said they were going to have to pay him a 2m roster bonus very soon and although I wouldn't have minded keeping him, I understand why the team wanted to save the 4.6m in cap space. It still leaves us 4.6m in dead money next season.

 

[Tank]

I remember being ok with his average salary when we signed Crabtree, but didn't like how his cap ballooned up in year two. That being said they were going to have to pay him a 2m roster bonus very soon and although I wouldn't have minded keeping him, I understand why the team wanted to save the 4.6m in cap space. It still leaves us 4.6m in dead money next season.

I don’t think it’s about saving cap space. Crab was brought to Baltimore to be a reliable veteran red zone target and to state the obvious it didn’t happen.

 

[MarkAndrewsOurSavior]

We have 27m in cap space after cutting crabtree, that is accounting the flacco trade and tavons extension. So assuming we cut weddle we will have about 30+ to work with for cj and free agents