Tank
Hall of Famer
Sure did look like it. lol
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Week 8: Lamar, Our Hands, and The Coaching
- Thread starter UPennChem
- Start date
ravenslord
Ravens Ring of Honor
I think the Oweh experiment has failed. He looked promising early this year and as usual had a great training camp but then he just fades away.
Put a fork in Oweh. He done. Put a fork in Ojabo. He done.
ravenslord
Ravens Ring of Honor
My official forks thus far this season:
1) Oweh
2) Ojabo
3) Justin Tucker ,sadly
4) Eddie Jackson
5)Marcus Williams
They done.
1) Oweh
2) Ojabo
3) Justin Tucker ,sadly
4) Eddie Jackson
5)Marcus Williams
They done.
Tbf I'd rather this happen now then after we lock him down for 5 years 80 mil. How does one acquire a top defensive linemen without trading 2 1sts.
Many of us claimed that Rashad and Odafe class would be our success or failure of the future, both have shown great potential but underwhelmed.
Thankfully, the next years 1st round of getting Kyle and Tyler fixed us out
The defense loss Clowney ,Stone , Darby , and Queen then on the coaching side it loss Wilson, Weaver , MacDonald and maybe some other coaches / assistant that we were not aware of. It's a tough task to even attempt to replicate what the defense did last year with so many losses on both the players and coaches side.
I'm not even sure if more experience player caller could have met the standard. Maybe a more experience play caller would have been better but I think we still would have been comparing this year defense to last year defense.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
There’s no one person to be mad at. If Orr could dial up a pressure the pass rush would look better, but he literally hasn’t the slightest clue how to scheme a pressure. If the DBs could communicate and execute zone pass offs and pickups, the coverage would look substantially better. If pass rushers could win 1v1 we wouldn’t rely on a DC to scheme pressures.
It’s a disaster on all fronts. Can’t blame Eric too much for expecting more from oweh and ojabo, at some point you gotta let the horses run, it’s not his fault our horses are running like they got 3 legs. You can certainly be mad at Harbaugh for his choice of DC though. On a Super Bowl or bust team it’s boneheaded as fuck to rely on essentially a free trial DC, a guy who’s the same age as my stupid childish ass. Incredibly stupid move.
ravenslord
Ravens Ring of Honor
Bateman has played well recently though yesterday he had one huge drop.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Oweh is a LB, not a pass rusher. He’s an OLB that can generate some effort/motor sacks. His best asset is just being a pain in the ass by chasing down ball carriers or cutting a scramble short.
Grim
Ravens Ring of Honor
What about Zach Orr?
He's a great great linebacker and easily one of the main reasons we have a top run defense consistently: I wouldn't mind him as a #2 pass rusher
It makes sense the defense would be worse with the list of brains gone from the defense, but we shouldn't be the fucking worst in the league. The Arizona cardinals front seven have one sack in there entire edge group yet they can stop the dolphins. I can't imagine what a healthy dolphins or Texans wr group would do to us
ravenslord
Ravens Ring of Honor
Here are the players lost stats this year :
Clowney -only 1 sack so far
Darby- 0 picks 5 passes defended
Stone-1 interception 2 passes defended
Queen !!!!!!!!!!!!! - O sacks,O interceptions. Steeler fans hate him
Not impressed
ravenslord
Ravens Ring of Honor
I was adding players only but put a huge Halloween fork in Orr . He done.
Darby is the only one I miss we underrated him. Maulet did well for a first game back. Stone and queen have been dreadful afc north spies for us
Alright Marcus text back from my guy... he said to take this one with a slight grain of salt because they're trying to keep it hush-hush so details may not be 100%, but decision was made on Monday to start limiting his snaps. He was informed Tuesday and had a little bit of a blow up. Original intent was to make him inactive this week, but the attrition at DB as a whole led to him still getting to dress as an emergency option. Sounds like it was heat of the moment and they've already worked to squash the issue, but they weren't letting it slide. Just emotion coming out and having to pay the price.
The ultimate unconfirmed piece is that the DB rooms have had it out a few times this year already. A lot of frustration with guys blowing their coverages. He gets the sense that those guys just don't trust each other right now and it's causing strain and exacerbating the problem even more. The one thing he can confirm is that some (not all) of those dudes have been coming in on their off time to put in the work and try to get it fixed. I'd imagine some of the strain is that it's only some and not all of those guys putting in the work, but that's me injecting my own opinion.
The ultimate unconfirmed piece is that the DB rooms have had it out a few times this year already. A lot of frustration with guys blowing their coverages. He gets the sense that those guys just don't trust each other right now and it's causing strain and exacerbating the problem even more. The one thing he can confirm is that some (not all) of those dudes have been coming in on their off time to put in the work and try to get it fixed. I'd imagine some of the strain is that it's only some and not all of those guys putting in the work, but that's me injecting my own opinion.
ravenslord
Ravens Ring of Honor
I agree . I wanted darby back badly.
Grim
Ravens Ring of Honor
I told people the same that Smith isn't necessarily missing Queen because Queen hasn't done anything in PIT. I think there's just a larger issue at work here with the defensive scheming at work. Players aren't executing well. Player body language seems confused. That means either they aren't bought in to the defensive scheme, the defense is too complicated, the players suck, coaching sucks, frustration, the players don't trust each other, the players don't trust the coaches, or something I am missing.
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
I don't get why there's any controversy. Players and coaches on defense have both sucked.
Marcus Williams being so bad he's had to be benched. Dude was an ace in NOLA and had even been at bare minimum average here with us.
Brandon Stephens has probably made 3 plays the entire year. Highly targeted, highly gashed.
Marlon, Eddie Jackson, Ardarius, and Hamilton have all dropped timely interceptions. Some of those guys have dropped multiple.
Oweh and Ojabo are simply not starting caliber pass rushers. Oweh should be on the field but he's just not what he was supposed to be. KVN for 2 years now has shown to be very streaky. High highs but long lulls.
DL is really held up by Mads and Travis. Travis will probably never show numbers and while Madabuike has certainly played well, probably not worth that top money. That money is for getting guys on the ground 10+ a year.
With that being said, that takes nothing away from the following.
We have 1 to 2, sometimes more plays where we simply don't even know what play we're running. That's an obvious coaching issue.
We have 1-5 plays where the coaches explain away the big play with "communication issues". That's a coaching issue. Our players aren't stupid. We've seen literally every single one of them as at a high level for years.
The DBs are playing the least physical brand of football i think we've ever seen from a Ravens team. 10 yards off the line, no one jams. That's a coaching issue.
The personnel group differing. We've gone from lowest dime to most dime in the NFl over the course of a season where we were "continuing" a scheme. That was clearly a lie or a failure. That's a coaching issue.
Finally, the play calling and tendencies. We're putting our worst performing position group in terrible situations with cover 0 calls. That's Winks defense not Mike's. But the thing is Winks sometimes got home. Orr hasn't even once. So despite it not working, we continue to put our DBs in terrible spots. It's panic coaching. At a higher level the usage of Hamilton has been different and the lack of stunts etc is super evident.
So when you have players and coaching doing a bad job, your defense is gonna be bad. No shockers there. But we've seen THESE players play unbelievably better just last year. That means to a totally nonzero and significant extent, the coaches are underperforming. It is literally their job to get the best out of our players.
Marcus Williams being so bad he's had to be benched. Dude was an ace in NOLA and had even been at bare minimum average here with us.
Brandon Stephens has probably made 3 plays the entire year. Highly targeted, highly gashed.
Marlon, Eddie Jackson, Ardarius, and Hamilton have all dropped timely interceptions. Some of those guys have dropped multiple.
Oweh and Ojabo are simply not starting caliber pass rushers. Oweh should be on the field but he's just not what he was supposed to be. KVN for 2 years now has shown to be very streaky. High highs but long lulls.
DL is really held up by Mads and Travis. Travis will probably never show numbers and while Madabuike has certainly played well, probably not worth that top money. That money is for getting guys on the ground 10+ a year.
With that being said, that takes nothing away from the following.
We have 1 to 2, sometimes more plays where we simply don't even know what play we're running. That's an obvious coaching issue.
We have 1-5 plays where the coaches explain away the big play with "communication issues". That's a coaching issue. Our players aren't stupid. We've seen literally every single one of them as at a high level for years.
The DBs are playing the least physical brand of football i think we've ever seen from a Ravens team. 10 yards off the line, no one jams. That's a coaching issue.
The personnel group differing. We've gone from lowest dime to most dime in the NFl over the course of a season where we were "continuing" a scheme. That was clearly a lie or a failure. That's a coaching issue.
Finally, the play calling and tendencies. We're putting our worst performing position group in terrible situations with cover 0 calls. That's Winks defense not Mike's. But the thing is Winks sometimes got home. Orr hasn't even once. So despite it not working, we continue to put our DBs in terrible spots. It's panic coaching. At a higher level the usage of Hamilton has been different and the lack of stunts etc is super evident.
So when you have players and coaching doing a bad job, your defense is gonna be bad. No shockers there. But we've seen THESE players play unbelievably better just last year. That means to a totally nonzero and significant extent, the coaches are underperforming. It is literally their job to get the best out of our players.
ravenslord
Ravens Ring of Honor
Indeed . Why so much confusion?
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
Is it your understanding that the people blowing coverages are the ones putting in the work or it's the ones who are making mistakes who are not?