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Lamar Jackson

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
I hate Marty as much as the next guy and I know for a fact that he is not the guy I want leading Lamar's development, BUT, I feel like he's too easy of a scapegoat. Joe misses a read? Marty's fault. Joe makes a bad throw? Marty's fault. Offense does poorly? Marty's fault. I know for a fact during the Panther's game that many, many, many people on this forum were calling out some horrendously missed reads.
Can't remember who was it but few days ago I saw a youtube video where someone brought up pretty good point about Marty not getting enough credit for our success after Flacco's injury - the main argument being how it can't be easy to install completely different offensive playbook practically on-the-fly and and make it work.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Can't remember who was it but few days ago I saw a youtube video where someone brought up pretty good point about Marty not getting enough credit for our success after Flacco's injury - the main argument being how it can't be easy to install completely different offensive playbook practically on-the-fly and and make it work.
it's not like it wasn't already installed and they are just taking pieces out of the playbook that he and Roman put in place.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
I hate Marty as much as the next guy and I know for a fact that he is not the guy I want leading Lamar's development, BUT, I feel like he's too easy of a scapegoat. Joe misses a read? Marty's fault. Joe makes a bad throw? Marty's fault. Offense does poorly? Marty's fault. I know for a fact during the Panther's game that many, many, many people on this forum were calling out some horrendously missed reads.
Panthers and Steelers games were kinda the last straw for me. He looked as bad as he ever has, like late 2009 bad, 2008 afc championship bad, he was pitiful, and this was coming off the back of a few bad games prior where you could just sense joe was hitting another one of his lulls.

After seeing it again despite good pass pro and good weapons I just can’t get over it, Marty has his shit for brains moments, whether it’s joe or Marty (Boyle fade in the red zone, wildcat power sweeps on third and short) and at this point it’s more noticeable when it’s on Marty and when it’s on joe, you have quality receivers breaking open constantly, and joe is missing the reads AND the throws, it’s not a case of calling 10 flats to Boyle on third and long anymore, it’s a case of joe genuinely playing like shit and Marty sprinkling in some really bad situational calls.

Lamar isn’t passing as well as joe was, but honestly it’s not that far behind, numbers wise it’s behind because why even bother when the run is working so well, but lamars passing by the eye test looks about on par with joes, the mental dexterity he has in the pocket is visibly way better and that’s sad since joe is an 11 year vet, it’s all in the arm, and frankly joes arm hasn’t been spectacular lately either.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Can't remember who was it but few days ago I saw a youtube video where someone brought up pretty good point about Marty not getting enough credit for our success after Flacco's injury - the main argument being how it can't be easy to install completely different offensive playbook practically on-the-fly and and make it work.
I believe it was pff who said we are running essentially the same play book but most plays from under center are now just being run from the shotgun/pistol/wishbone and the playbook has shrunk to allow for that
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I hate Marty as much as the next guy and I know for a fact that he is not the guy I want leading Lamar's development, BUT, I feel like he's too easy of a scapegoat. Joe misses a read? Marty's fault. Joe makes a bad throw? Marty's fault. Offense does poorly? Marty's fault. I know for a fact during the Panther's game that many, many, many people on this forum were calling out some horrendously missed reads.

i was guilty of that all last year - i was going crazy at marty and yet much of the improvement later in the year was just joe being better both mechanically and also reading the field better

that panther's game was a shitshow though
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
Can't remember who was it but few days ago I saw a youtube video where someone brought up pretty good point about Marty not getting enough credit for our success after Flacco's injury - the main argument being how it can't be easy to install completely different offensive playbook practically on-the-fly and and make it work.
Yeah, I'm not his biggest fan at all, but gotta give him credit for making drastic changes on the fly.
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
i was guilty of that all last year - i was going crazy at marty and yet much of the improvement later in the year was just joe being better both mechanically and also reading the field better

that panther's game was a shitshow though
It's really hard to analyze without seeing the whole field, but I went back and watched the Panthers game. The receivers really struggled on isolation routes going deep, but so many times Joe just missed open receivers because he didn't work through his progression or wait a hair longer (for a suboptimal throw, no less) or he threw so late that it allowed the defender to close. Just no anticipation.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
It's really hard to analyze without seeing the whole field, but I went back and watched the Panthers game. The receivers really struggled on isolation routes going deep, but so many times Joe just missed open receivers because he didn't work through his progression or wait a hair longer (for a suboptimal throw, no less) or he threw so late that it allowed the defender to close. Just no anticipation.

it was a combination of many things - it's not always joe OR marty - in fact the whole team was an absolute shambles on both sides of the ball in that game
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
It's really hard to analyze without seeing the whole field, but I went back and watched the Panthers game. The receivers really struggled on isolation routes going deep, but so many times Joe just missed open receivers because he didn't work through his progression or wait a hair longer (for a suboptimal throw, no less) or he threw so late that it allowed the defender to close. Just no anticipation.
go in and watch the all-22.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
It's really hard to analyze without seeing the whole field, but I went back and watched the Panthers game. The receivers really struggled on isolation routes going deep, but so many times Joe just missed open receivers because he didn't work through his progression or wait a hair longer (for a suboptimal throw, no less) or he threw so late that it allowed the defender to close. Just no anticipation.
Marty has had several games where isolation routes did them in this season. There was a game prior to the Panthers game as well, think it may have been the Browns game.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
it was a combination of many things - it's not always joe OR marty - in fact the whole team was an absolute shambles on both sides of the ball in that game
Marty is ok in the beginning of the game and ok at the end of a half, but when he has to play chess and call some situational plays he tends to fall apart.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Marty is ok in the beginning of the game and ok at the end of a half, but when he has to play chess and call some situational plays he tends to fall apart.
Marty is at his absolute worst when we are nursing a lead. Late third til the end of the 4th, 2 possessions lead you just need a few first downs, chew some clock, get us into fg range to put it out of reach, whatever, and Marty completely shits the bed and hits us with 3 and outs or one first and punt every time, those are the moments where it’s hsrd to blame joe because the play calls are visibly bad, he’ll call a stretch for -2, a dive for 2, and a flat or drag on 3rd and long, or if he’s feeling frisky he’ll call a 7 step drop low percentage pass play with one read for no gain, then 2 quick flats. If we luck out and break a solid run and we end up at 2nd and short/medium, he’ll find a way to call an edge run that gets stuffed and brings us back to 3rd and long.

Protecting a lead is just so goddamn hard for Marty
 

Dom McRaven

Hall of Famer
Marty is at his absolute worst when we are nursing a lead. Late third til the end of the 4th, 2 possessions lead you just need a few first downs, chew some clock, get us into fg range to put it out of reach, whatever, and Marty completely shits the bed and hits us with 3 and outs or one first and punt every time, those are the moments where it’s hsrd to blame joe because the play calls are visibly bad, he’ll call a stretch for -2, a dive for 2, and a flat or drag on 3rd and long, or if he’s feeling frisky he’ll call a 7 step drop low percentage pass play with one read for no gain, then 2 quick flats. If we luck out and break a solid run and we end up at 2nd and short/medium, he’ll find a way to call an edge run that gets stuffed and brings us back to 3rd and long.

Protecting a lead is just so goddamn hard for Marty
It's shit like this why I censor his name because he's basically censoring our offense with these types of bullshit play calls.
 
I dont think the few of us who do still think Flacco should start have thrown any hateful or disrespectful shade at anyone here we have just argued our side of things either way none of our opinions matter and the team will do what the team is going to do on my opinion it's just supposed to be a fun debate between people who all love this team
Thank you for that.

Debate is fine even when it gets a little heated. This particular debate has logical reasons on either side so it’s not like taking one side or the other is crazy. And true the teams gonna do what the team is gonna do. What drives me nuts are those people who seem to be more interested in being right than our team succeeding. There are some who really seem to do that.

I think Lamar is the man in terms of how the team as a whole seems to be functioning based on his style of play. If the team puts Flacco out there I’ll not agree but I’ll root just as hard for success.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Has anyone noticed how after the bengals game, the nfl media was all: “you can’t keep winning like this, it’s not sustainable, joe Flacco is still best for the team” bla bla whatever.

After 3-0 and joe Flacco being healthy again, these analysts aren’t even thinking of joe as having a chance to come back, it’s all lamar now, and while they all seem to wanna put an asterisk next to lamar, they are more along for the ride now, people wanna see what lamar does, the narrative seems to have changed quite a bit.

Only took 3 weeks of seeing lamar for analysts to change up, and he STILL hasn’t even thrown the ball well. Common theme this week is the ravens have a chance to pull the upset in KC, and it’s bexause of the defense and how lamar gives us an unstoppable run game
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Has anyone noticed how after the bengals game, the nfl media was all: “you can’t keep winning like this, it’s not sustainable, joe Flacco is still best for the team” bla bla whatever.

After 3-0 and joe Flacco being healthy again, these analysts aren’t even thinking of joe as having a chance to come back, it’s all lamar now, and while they all seem to wanna put an asterisk next to lamar, they are more along for the ride now, people wanna see what lamar does, the narrative seems to have changed quite a bit.

Only took 3 weeks of seeing lamar for analysts to change up, and he STILL hasn’t even thrown the ball well. Common theme this week is the ravens have a chance to pull the upset in KC, and it’s bexause of the defense and how lamar gives us an unstoppable run game

it's because he's more interesting - it doesnt matter how well joe plays, lamar's style is more exciting
 

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
Has anyone noticed how after the bengals game, the nfl media was all: “you can’t keep winning like this, it’s not sustainable, joe Flacco is still best for the team” bla bla whatever.

After 3-0 and joe Flacco being healthy again, these analysts aren’t even thinking of joe as having a chance to come back, it’s all lamar now, and while they all seem to wanna put an asterisk next to lamar, they are more along for the ride now, people wanna see what lamar does, the narrative seems to have changed quite a bit.

Only took 3 weeks of seeing lamar for analysts to change up, and he STILL hasn’t even thrown the ball well. Common theme this week is the ravens have a chance to pull the upset in KC, and it’s bexause of the defense and how lamar gives us an unstoppable run game
M. Andrews and Crabtree will catch TDs tomorrow, then "analysts" can change the narrative for next week, too.
 
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