Signings, Cuts, Trades

[rmcjacket23]

the precedent has already been set if that's what you're worried about... both jared goff and carson wentz got 2nd contracts after the 3rd year of their deal last offseason - they were the class the year before watson and mahomes

so ironically out of that class dak is the only one who didnt get signed after year 3

Good point I had forgotten about those.

The structure's of those kinds of deals get tricky very quick. You basically can't just "wipe out" the salaries on existing deals, so these guys all got large signing bonuses but had really low year 1 cap numbers.

Jared Goff's cap hit jumps from $10.6M in 2019 to $36M in 2020. That's not a typo.
Wentz goes from 8.4 to 18.6 to 34.7 over a three year period.

 

[JAAM]

and he did that without starting the first 5 games of the year

Exactly! Incredible.

 

[rossihunter2]

Good point I had forgotten about those.

The structure's of those kinds of deals get tricky very quick. You basically can't just "wipe out" the salaries on existing deals, so these guys all got large signing bonuses but had really low year 1 cap numbers.

Jared Goff's cap hit jumps from $10.6M in 2019 to $36M in 2020. That's not a typo.
Wentz goes from 8.4 to 18.6 to 34.7 over a three year period.

partly the structure of that goff deal is down to the Rams recent attempts to go all in on a superbowl window that now appears to have closed - they've got a very top heavy team now with no draft picks really to go along with it... but i think that low 2019 cap hit was purposefully to do with the way their team was structured

but generally we should expect the av/yr of qbs to be getting close to 40m a year now - its hard to have those cap hits not be crazy huge

 

[rmcjacket23]

partly the structure of that goff deal is down to the Rams recent attempts to go all in on a superbowl window that now appears to have closed - they've got a very top heavy team now with no draft picks really to go along with it... but i think that low 2019 cap hit was purposefully to do with the way their team was structured

but generally we should expect the av/yr of qbs to be getting close to 40m a year now - its hard to have those cap hits not be crazy huge

And that much I expect. For me its more about structure.

There's almost no justification for having a single player cost $20M+ more on a YoY basis. Teams don't kill themselves by paying $35M to a player. Teams kill themselves by backloading the contract. Joe Flacco's original deal in 2013 wasn't a bad one in terms of total $ or total years... it was bad because the Ravens backloaded the crap out of it from a salary cap perspective. That's how you get a declining player costing significantly more year-over-year, and virtually no chance of getting out from under it.

I was heaping praises on the 49ers two years ago for that Jimmy G deal. I thought he was overpaid at $27.5M a year, but the structure was brilliant. They were flush with cap space in 2018, and they front loaded the crap out of it... $37M cap hit in year 1. They have a great chance to keep a lot of really good players on that team, because Jimmy's structure is ridiculously flat for the next three years, so as the cap grows, its all extra space for them to spend. They'll never have to cut a player because their QBs contract is growing too fast.

 

[rossihunter2]

And that much I expect. For me its more about structure.

There's almost no justification for having a single player cost $20M+ more on a YoY basis. Teams don't kill themselves by paying $35M to a player. Teams kill themselves by backloading the contract. Joe Flacco's original deal in 2013 wasn't a bad one in terms of total $ or total years... it was bad because the Ravens backloaded the crap out of it from a salary cap perspective. That's how you get a declining player costing significantly more year-over-year, and virtually no chance of getting out from under it.

I was heaping praises on the 49ers two years ago for that Jimmy G deal. I thought he was overpaid at $27.5M a year, but the structure was brilliant. They were flush with cap space in 2018, and they front loaded the crap out of it... $37M cap hit in year 1. They have a great chance to keep a lot of really good players on that team, because Jimmy's structure is ridiculously flat for the next three years, so as the cap grows, its all extra space for them to spend. They'll never have to cut a player because their QBs contract is growing too fast.

it depends what they do with the existing money on the rookie deal but yeah there's no reason not to have the first 2 years at least close to the average yearly rate - but front-loading is a luxury of teams with loads of cap space - the rams and eagles did not have much available cap space when they signed those deals

what's promising is it looks like EDC is structuring contracts now with other players and getting the salary cap into a place where a lamar contract could work within the contract framework that EDC seems to prefer (i.e. a lot flatter)

i have no problems with a flatter contract at all - but there's going to be an astronomical difference between jimmy g's contract and all these other ones because he got paid at a discount a little bit - his inflated year 1 cap hit to create flatter cap hits down the line is going to be probably less than the average/yr of any deal that mahomes, lamar and watson get

russell wilson's deal is probably the best deal we can use as a prototype but even that's slightly back-loaded - inevitably any deal you create will naturally have inflation cap hits if your team is competing because the salary cap as a trend increases every year but teams that compete every year are likely to be closer to the salary cap than those that arent

but russell wilson's extension has cap numbers of 26m, 31m, 32m, 37m, 39m on a 4 yr extension that was 4 for 140m at a 35m/yr average

 

[Tank]

we have no idea what the numbers are on this but that's awesome
what's wild is that none of the insiders had this either

All the insiders thought we were bringing Elam back. :-)

 

[rossihunter2]

chuck clark iq example - if you follow michael crawford he pointed out multiple examples of plays like this from chuck all year

 

[JO_75]

Jimmy Smith potentially next or you guys think he is gone? I am now assuming Judon will get the Franchise Tag and we'll try a tag and trade deal with a team.

 

[Charm City]

Jimmy Smith potentially next or you guys think he is gone? I am now assuming Judon will get the Franchise Tag and we'll try a tag and trade deal with a team.

I think it will be an 80-20 rule of sorts between him and Carr. If we can sign him for around 9 mil we will keep him and cut Carr, since he is better than Carr for only 3 million more. If he wants 10+ mil it will be hard to justify the cost considering we'd also potentially get a comp pick in return

 

[JAAM]

Jimmy Smith potentially next or you guys think he is gone? I am now assuming Judon will get the Franchise Tag and we'll try a tag and trade deal with a team.

He needs to stay. Can never have enough DBs, and I could see him stepping in at FS in a Big Dime when ET is in the box. Carr and TJ (obviously) should go. Jimmy needs to give us a hometown discount, however.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

He needs to stay. Can never have enough DBs, and I could see him stepping in at FS in a Big Dime when ET is in the box. Carr and TJ (obviously) should go. Jimmy needs to give us a hometown discount, however.

Jimmy will likely never be a safety, it’s not his skill set. Humphrey and Carr are much more the safety type, but jimmy is clearly a boundary corner, he’s one of the best in the league at leveraging WRs into the sideline and giving qbs a window of inches to work with, and he lacks the lateral movement and one step burst needed to play FS effectively

Jimmy Smith potentially next or you guys think he is gone? I am now assuming Judon will get the Franchise Tag and we'll try a tag and trade deal with a team.

I’d do this. I saw an article that was extremely “what if” but it suggested the possibility of Seattle trading a 2+3 for Judon or NYJ trading a 2+5. I find that to be literally impossible but if we could get just a 2 for him I’d be fucking hype. hell if we could land a 3 and 4 I’d be hype.

 

[rossihunter2]

Jimmy will likely never be a safety, it’s not his skill set. Humphrey and Carr are much more the safety type, but jimmy is clearly a boundary corner, he’s one of the best in the league at leveraging WRs into the sideline and giving qbs a window of inches to work with, and he lacks the lateral movement and one step burst needed to play FS effectively

I’d do this. I saw an article that was extremely “what if” but it suggested the possibility of Seattle trading a 2+3 for Judon or NYJ trading a 2+5. I find that to be literally impossible but if we could get just a 2 for him I’d be fucking hype. hell if we could land a 3 and 4 I’d be hype.

honestly if we could even get a 3 this year itd be worth it because it would save a year of waiting for that pick (+ it would mean we dont have nebulous problems with the comp pick formula like with CJ's injury this year) - obviously you'd want more but in a tag and trade situation if a 3 was the most we could get then id definitely consider it strongly but likely we'd get more than just a 3

if teams want to throw 2nd round pick or more then that's a no brainer trade

 

[JoeyFlex5]

honestly if we could even get a 3 this year itd be worth it because it would save a year of waiting for that pick (+ it would mean we dont have nebulous problems with the comp pick formula like with CJ's injury this year) - obviously you'd want more but in a tag and trade situation if a 3 was the most we could get then id definitely consider it strongly but likely we'd get more than just a 3

if teams want to throw 2nd round pick or more then that's a no brainer trade

If a team is offering a 3, id sweeten the pot and toss in a 4 and see if I can get a 2 for Judon+4

 

[Grim]

Absolutely. Judon is worth unloading for any third round pick because that’s a bird in hand than...one in the bush? Anyway, give me the guarantee because who knows what’ll happen. It also lets us sign any number of FA we want if we’re so inclined.

 

[JAAM]

Jimmy will likely never be a safety, it’s not his skill set. Humphrey and Carr are much more the safety type, but jimmy is clearly a boundary corner, he’s one of the best in the league at leveraging WRs into the sideline and giving qbs a window of inches to work with, and he lacks the lateral movement and one step burst needed to play FS effectively

Yea that makes sense. I just want Jimmy back though and I don't want to switch any pieces around. Peters and Marlon on the outside with Tavon in the slot. I mean I guess if Jimmy is fine with having a backup role and accepting a discount, obviously I'd love him back.

 

[rossihunter2]

Absolutely. Judon is worth unloading for any third round pick because that’s a bird in hand than...one in the bush? Anyway, give me the guarantee because who knows what’ll happen. It also lets us sign any number of FA we want if we’re so inclined.

exactly - albeit that kind of depends on what sort of a contract we expect pierce or peanut or jimmy (if he leaves) get
still not a reason to worry about judon in the comp pick formula - id rather the guaranteed pick a year early

 

[rossihunter2]

Yea that makes sense. I just want Jimmy back though and I don't want to switch any pieces around. Peters and Marlon on the outside with Tavon in the slot. I mean I guess if Jimmy is fine with having a backup role and accepting a discount, obviously I'd love him back.

we've had 3 quality outside corners every year since marlon joined the team - rotation is something that benefits us + there's ways for us to get more than 3 corners on the field if we want in certain packages but more than anything it gives the guys the opportunity to stay fresh + protects us from injuries

i cant wait to have tavon young back on the field though - he's just a playmaker - scores tds, makes plays on the ball and is a great blitzer from the slot

having jimmy and marlon allows us to get the most out of our more gambling secondary guys like ET, tavon and marcus peters

 

[SepticeyePoe]

Yea that makes sense. I just want Jimmy back though and I don't want to switch any pieces around. Peters and Marlon on the outside with Tavon in the slot. I mean I guess if Jimmy is fine with having a backup role and accepting a discount, obviously I'd love him back.

Rotating Jimmy in might also help keep him healthier.

Beat me to it @rossihunter2

 

[Grim]

exactly - albeit that kind of depends on what sort of a contract we expect pierce or peanut or jimmy (if he leaves) get
still not a reason to worry about judon in the comp pick formula - id rather the guaranteed pick a year early

I suspect those guys net us a max 5th round pick. I’d be surprised if we got more than that for any of them. I guess Jimmy could get a 4th if he did leave because I imagine it would be for a considerable sum as I expect us to re-sign him if it’s 7m

I didn’t yet comment on the Clark move but man is this a great move. Our secondary comes back very intact with a starting core players of Humphrey & Peters outside and Young inside with Clark & Thomas at S. We only need depth and have that with Marshall but that’s about it imo. Definitely need a 4th CB with the offenses we will face. It also assuredly means bye Felicia to Tony

 

[JAAM]

It also assuredly means bye Felicia to Tony

Which kind of makes me sad after seeing this tweet. He's such a class act.