The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

[cobrajet]

No it wasn’t, if he’s claiming so strongly to be one of the good cops, I wanna know if he would follow orders here and tear gas and rubber bullet crowds of people simply exercising their first amendment.

if @cobrajet would carry out these orders like the rest of these departments are, then no he is not one of the good cops.

I will have to find out if our tactical unit has any of these rubber bullets but I have not seen them. There is tear gas on the EVU truck but we are not allowed to use it. Again that is for the tactical unit only. We have one less than lethal shotgun in each district that has a few beanbag rounds and a net that shoots out, pretty much just to deal with if we encounter a violent mental case. I have never used it. I would assume that the EVU truck would have extra bean bag rounds if things got really bad but they are not in our armory. We do have those huge canisters of pepper spray and in my whole career I only used if one time and it was at a huge street fight at a bar where it was just one big free for all. I have to admit it worked very well to break things up, but I felt it was justified.

 

[Inqui]

where did that come from?
Taxation is theft.

Everyone wants the benefits of living in a society without having to pay for it. A nuanced discussion about tax is one thing, but you shouldn't have to haggle with the fire service when your house (or your neighbour's house) is burning down.



If you have THAT much of a problem with paying tax, feel free to go and make your own libertarian utopia.

 

[Willbacker]

Unrelated, but back in the day a friend of mine got a job pumping gas. He called himself a fuel flow technician.

As I am a transportation engineer.

 

[Willbacker]

That’s beside the point, if you’re doing that to a peaceful protest you are violating our constitution. Period.

With all due respect do you know what constitues a peaceful protests and when its not?

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I will have to find out if our tactical unit has any of these rubber bullets but I have not seen them. There is tear gas on the EVU truck but we are not allowed to use it. Again that is for the tactical unit only. We have one less than lethal shotgun in each district that has a few beanbag rounds and a net that shoots out, pretty much just to deal with if we encounter a violent mental case. I have never used it. I would assume that the EVU truck would have extra bean bag rounds if things got really bad but they are not in our armory. We do have those huge canisters of pepper spray and in my whole career I only used if one time and it was at a huge street fight at a bar where it was just one big free for all. I have to admit it worked very well to break things up, but I felt it was justified.

A bar fight is a justified way to use it lol, but that’s not what I’m asking. Suppose you were a philly cop in 2020 rather than a Baltimore cop in the past, if your chiefs ordered you to teargas a group of peaceful protestors and back them into a corner and continue gassing them, would you? If your chiefs ordered you to violate the first amendment would you do it?

 

[Sami84]

Everyone wants the benefits of living in a society without having to pay for it. A nuanced discussion about tax is one thing, but you shouldn't have to haggle with the fire service when your house (or your neighbour's house) is burning down.



If you have THAT much of a problem with paying tax, feel free to go and make your own libertarian utopia.

Nothing to do with libertarianism. You do realize that taxation has nothing to do with anything but paying for an illusionary need that was created by government and the federal reserve? Statism is the ONLY reason for taxation.

Can't people think beyond and see the deeply embedded manipulation of politics and their economic logistics?

Income tax on your blood when and tears is extortion at the long arm of the law [with a gun] and doesn't actually pay for anything of utilitarian value. It covers a portion of the interest the government owes for buying the currency from the private Federal Reserve central bank.

 

[Sami84]

Theft. period.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

With all due respect do you know what constitues a peaceful protests and when its not?

Yes. I’m referring to the peaceful protests all over the goddamn country from Sunday and Monday, literally people standing and chanting and discussing

 

[Inqui]

Nothing to do with libertarianism. You do realize that taxation has nothing to do with anything but paying for an illusionary need that was created by government and the federal reserve? Statism is the ONLY reason for taxation.

Can't people think beyond and see the deeply embedded manipulation of politics and their economic logistics?

Income tax on your blood when and tears is extortion at the long arm of the law [with a gun] and doesn't actually pay for anything of utilitarian value. It covers a portion of the interest the government owes for buying the currency from the private Federal Reserve central bank.

Central banking is a reasonable topic of discussion (hell, I got a job offer on the back of a research paper I wrote about advice for businesses in the face of changing monetary policy so I don't mind a discussion in good faith), but if you're going to argue that any government at all is statism then I don't think you'll get too much support.

Aside from the examples I already got at, there's nothing illusory about the military, the police, property rights, air space (if society ever got that far), water quality, prisons, roads, unprofitable common goods, medical regulations, or anything else I can't think of off the top of my head. Actions speak louder than words and the fact that you live in a society and pay taxes suggests you feel it's better than the alternative.

If all you're going to do is repeat "taxation is theft" and post memes, that may provide a hint about why no one has discussions with you.

 

[cobrajet]

A bar fight is a justified way to use it lol, but that’s not what I’m asking. Suppose you were a philly cop in 2020 rather than a Baltimore cop in the past, if your chiefs ordered you to teargas a group of peaceful protestors and back them into a corner and continue gassing them, would you? If your chiefs ordered you to violate the first amendment would you do it?

I need more information. First let me say I am not firing rubber bullets, if we had them,at no one. That is not what I am about. I am a hands on person, not a wuss. If a rock hits me, they better be able to run pretty fast, I don't care what order I am given to stand down, eff that!

Would I shoot tear gas at peaceful demonstrators? Ok, first that would never happen (tac use only). Second, I can't imagine any of our commanders issuing that order. If you are asking me a hypothetical, like if I belonged to another agency and I had the tear gas - it is still a difficult question to answer. Does anyone in the crowd have a rock in their hand? Are they blocking a main route to one of the dozen hospitals in the city that Medic Units need to get through? Is it after curfew and hell breaking out elsewhere that we need to be deployed to and there a likelihood of we left there would be a high likelihood of the crowd taking advantage. Too many variables the average person does not take into consideration when they are sitting home watching things on TV. I can tell you one thing I can tell you for sure - I would hit anyone with it to be an asshole. I don't have that in me.

Let me also say, I would bet my house that the crowd was warned before that gas was deployed and I would be willing to bet some money that there was some variable that existed in Philly like I threw out, but some members on here probably think I am just trying to make excuses because I am biased.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Nothing to do with libertarianism. You do realize that taxation has nothing to do with anything but paying for an illusionary need that was created by government and the federal reserve? Statism is the ONLY reason for taxation.

Can't people think beyond and see the deeply embedded manipulation of politics and their economic logistics?

Income tax on your blood when and tears is extortion at the long arm of the law [with a gun] and doesn't actually pay for anything of utilitarian value. It covers a portion of the interest the government owes for buying the currency from the private Federal Reserve central bank.

I can side with you on this. Look at social security for fucks sake. If the people were given the money and instead put it in an interest bearing savings account the difference by retirement would be astronomical

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I need more information. First let me say I am not firing rubber bullets, if we had them,at no one. That is not what I am about. I am a hands on person, not a wuss. If a rock hits me, they better be able to run pretty fast, I don't care what order I am given to stand down, eff that!

Would I shoot tear gas at peaceful demonstrators? Ok, first that would never happen (tac use only). Second, I can't imagine any of our commanders issuing that order. If you are asking me a hypothetical, like if I belonged to another agency and I had the tear gas - it is still a difficult question to answer. Does anyone in the crowd have a rock in their hand? Are they blocking a main route to one of the dozen hospitals in the city that Medic Units need to get through? Is it after curfew and hell breaking out elsewhere that we need to be deployed to and there a likelihood of we left there would be a high likelihood of the crowd taking advantage. Too many variables the average person does not take into consideration when they are sitting home watching things on TV. I can tell you one thing I can tell you for sure - I would hit anyone with it to be an asshole. I don't have that in me.

Ok, you have your variables, but you’re ignoring a lot of the video evidence. Police arresting people who are on one knee just speaking, macing people who are just standing there with a sign, macing children, this is what I’m referring to, and it’s the part you keep trying to dance around, and the police are being told specifically to kick the shit out of every protestor they see and Trump is even encouraging it on social media

 

[Sami84]

Central banking is a reasonable topic of discussion (hell, I got a job offer on the back of a research paper I wrote about advice for businesses in the face of changing monetary policy so I don't mind a discussion in good faith), but if you're going to argue that any government at all is statism then I don't think you'll get too much support.

Aside from the examples I already got at, there's nothing illusory about the military, the police, property rights, air space (if society ever got that far), water quality, prisons, roads, unprofitable common goods, medical regulations, or anything else I can't think of off the top of my head. Actions speak louder than words and the fact that you live in a society and pay taxes suggests you feel it's better than the alternative.

If all you're going to do is repeat "taxation is theft" and post memes, that may provide a hint about why no one has discussions with you.

I was clear as fuck

here! You're looking at in in the box of the corruption ( in order to maintain divide and conquer paramaters, taxation is part of the gig, cos you know, you gotta pay for the wars we decide to create, you know '' the war on terror'' LOL)

 

[Sami84]

There is no minimized government that can work. Anything that is fundamentally flawed and against anarchy based values of natural law will always end up in the same place. You can't fix something that was ultimatly founded on violence
Statism is humanity taking responsibility for Natural law
if people cannot be trusted then how can government, where you're actually giving people the power to lie and use you be trusted?

It's a simple choice
embrace anarchy
or continue with the same old story of statism
same threads
same stories
same complains
Same illusion of choice ( vote for me!!! I'm better, I swear) nope, you're voting for THE SYSTEM and playing its game until their next superbowl ( elections). Left wing, right wing, it's the same bird.
same ''solutions''
same results.

i've got news for everyone. In order for life to change 180, you have to all take responsbility and your power back
bad people will always exist
but when you give them a platform to DO BAD THINGS LEGALLY
that makes statism the perfect breeding ground for violence
More pople die in the hands of their own government than any ''terrorists group'' outside their own country!

 

[cdp]

Central banking is a reasonable topic of discussion (hell, I got a job offer on the back of a research paper I wrote about advice for businesses in the face of changing monetary policy so I don't mind a discussion in good faith), but if you're going to argue that any government at all is statism then I don't think you'll get too much support.

Aside from the examples I already got at, there's nothing illusory about the military, the police, property rights, air space (if society ever got that far), water quality, prisons, roads, unprofitable common goods, medical regulations, or anything else I can't think of off the top of my head. Actions speak louder than words and the fact that you live in a society and pay taxes suggests you feel it's better than the alternative.

If all you're going to do is repeat "taxation is theft" and post memes, that may provide a hint about why no one has discussions with you.

Don't get met started on central banks and the finance system.

 

[Inqui]

Don't get met started on central banks and the finance system.

Based on what you've said in the past I don't think I'd disagree if you did get started. In NZ, the first policymakers to act in response to the covid crisis was the Reserve Bank dropping interest rates. The country's facing a supply crisis, a demand crisis and a liquidity crisis at the same time and what's the solution? Let's pump up housing prices some more. Great stuff, boys.

 

[cobrajet]

Ok, you have your variables, but you’re ignoring a lot of the video evidence. Police arresting people who are on one knee just speaking, macing people who are just standing there with a sign, macing children, this is what I’m referring to, and it’s the part you keep trying to dance around, and the police are being told specifically to kick the shit out of every protestor they see and Trump is even encouraging it on social media

Here is where you are wrong. I am not disputing what you are saying. I just refuse to watch the news right now because I am depressed as hell. I am trying to keep my mood from getting worse. Since I am not watching it I can't comment on it. If you want to watch this stuff it is your right. if police are doing it than I don't support it. I just think some of you are just not accounting for patience running to thin because of exhaustion and working conditions, but it is an argument I just don't feel like fighting about. We would just be going round and round all day. Just remember that many police are getting to their breaking point. It has been an extremely long and exhausting week. They just want this to come to an end so they can finally get home and see their wife and kids, wash up in their own shower, and get a good night sleep in their own bed. I can't justify anything but I can empathize a little. If you are not on the front lines you just can't understand how uncomfortable and frustrating it is. Your lower back, legs, and feet are screaming after a few hours on a scurmish line. You would give anything to be somewhere else. For some of the older guys it is just brutal. We wouldrather just be home on leave without pay but there is a duty to fullfil.

Seriously, I don't mind answering questions, but I rather not discuss videos that I am not watching, if that is okay. I also need to point out that I don't know what rules, regulations, and guidelines are in other agency manuals. Some department s may share them but for the most part each agency makes their own. It is the same way with training.

Let me also say that I have ran my mouth about commenting on things when you are not on the front lines or have behind the scene information. I also admit, I am not African American and I have not walked a mile in the shoes of someone that is African American. Therefore, I have no problem with a peaceful protest. I think the Rodney King beating was disgraceful as hell and believe that race played a part in it. Changes needed to be made and some still do. We should be discussing it. Let's just hold off a little longer on a war and keep things peaceful. I have read comments on social media that suggest that this current situation is creating a big divide again. I just don't want to see things get set back 30 years. I also don't want to see police officers so restricted on what they can and cannot do that criminals are so empowered that neighborhoods are living in way more fear and we have even more innocent victims suffering as a result.

 

[Willbacker]

Yes. I’m referring to the peaceful protests all over the goddamn country from Sunday and Monday, literally people standing and chanting and discussing

When you are breaking laws its not a peaceful protest. Curfews were issued cuz of what was happening at nightfall. These are llegal cuz of the destruction being caused. Also you are not supposed to be able to infringe on the freedoms of others. Blocking 2 or 3 blocks of an area is usually allowed but blocking an interstate is stopping commerce and the freedom to travel. So what is the law supposed to do? Let anarchy run wild? Make law and order weak?

Also stating before that its ok to burn down police stations and loot Targets and compare it to the Boston Tea Party is crazy. They dumped tea into the ocean. They requested several times for the ships to be turned back cuz they didnt want it with the restrictions (taxes) and were told they were gonna have to take it regardless of what they wanted. It wasnt a bunch of looting and burning down buildings. Thing is those ships made a decision to stay but the store owners/businesses had no choices.

Ok, you have your variables, but you’re ignoring a lot of the video evidence. Police arresting people who are on one knee just speaking, macing people who are just standing there with a sign, macing children, this is what I’m referring to, and it’s the part you keep trying to dance around, and the police are being told specifically to kick the shit out of every protestor they see and Trump is even encouraging it on social media

A lot of those videos only show the segment they want you to see. Also what you're saying about Trump and the police is completely false.

 

[Willbacker]

I can side with you on this. Look at social security for fucks sake. If the people were given the money and instead put it in an interest bearing savings account the difference by retirement would be astronomical

Dont even get me started about the Social Security ripoff.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Here is where you are wrong. I am not disputing what you are saying. I just refuse to watch the news right now because I am depressed as hell. I am trying to keep my mood from getting worse. Since I am not watching it I can't comment on it. If you want to watch this stuff it is your right. if police are doing it than I don't support it. I just think some of you are just not accounting for patience running to thin because of exhaustion and working conditions, but it is an argument I just don't feel like fighting about. We would just be going round and round all day. Just remember that many police are getting to their breaking point. It has been an extremely long and exhausting week. They just want this to come to an end so they can finally get home and see their wife and kids, wash up in their own shower, and get a good night sleep in their own bed. I can't justify anything but I can empathize a little. If you are not on the front lines you just can't understand how uncomfortable and frustrating it is. Your lower back, legs, and feet are screaming after a few hours on a scurmish line. You would give anything to be somewhere else. For some of the older guys it is just brutal. We wouldrather just be home on leave without pay but there is a duty to fullfil.

Seriously, I don't mind answering questions, but I rather not discuss videos that I am not watching, if that is okay. I also need to point out that I don't know what rules, regulations, and guidelines are in other agency manuals. Some department s may share them but for the most part each agency makes their own. It is the same way with training.

Let me also say that I have ran my mouth about commenting on things when you are not on the front lines or have behind the scene information. I also admit, I am not African American and I have not walked a mile in the shoes of someone that is African American. Therefore, I have no problem with a peaceful protest. I think the Rodney King beating was disgraceful as hell and believe that race played a part in it. Changes needed to be made and some still do. We should be discussing it. Let's just hold off a little longer on a war and keep things peaceful. I have read comments on social media that suggest that this current situation is creating a big divide again. I just don't want to see things get set back 30 years. I also don't want to see police officers so restricted on what they can and cannot do that criminals are so empowered that neighborhoods are living in way more fear and we have even more innocent victims suffering as a result.

I get what you’re saying about getting too depressed to follow, I’m getting to that point too, I had an anxiety attack last night that basically lasted for 7 hours stemming from arguing about this shit with ignorant ass family that is cheering on the beatings and flashbangs and macings and acting like it’s a conservative value because they’re so super conservative.

and if these guys are tired of this... maybe they should stop killing black people and stop violating our constitution, if the police would protest as well, the culture would do a fucking 180 in about 72 hours.