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The Well-Mannered Politics Thread

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Tank

Hall of Famer
1) Greenland is a dependent state, not a distressed asset in a portfolio. They've got their own constitution, their own parliament, their own maritime boundary and they do their own trade deals. Denmark can't just sell off Greenland on a whim - that goes against the constitution of both countries. It's like trying to buy Scotland off the UK - except more absurd because Greenland has more autonomy. Any deal would have to involve Greenland declaring independence. In that regard it reminds me of Gary Johnson (rightly) being laughed out of the room for not knowing about Aleppo. It's fine for you or I to not know these things, but the most powerful politician in the world should be aware of the relevant international law and know what the answer to his offer will be.
2) The subsidy is $535 million. Unless they jacked it up 35% in a year Trump is lying. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/print_gl.html
3) Their deficit last fiscal year was about $70 million. They're doing fine. https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/nationalregnskab-og-offentlige-finanser/offentlige-finanser To respond to what you're about to say,
4) I actually agree the other NATO powers aren't spending enough on national defence. But there's a huge amount of gaps in logic between not spending enough on defensive capabilities and buying Greenland (should Trump make an offer for French Polynesia because France is also coming up short? And for Denmark why assume they have to sell Greenland and not adjust other forms of spending or add debt while it's historically cheap?). From a US perspective if you're worried about spending too much on the military in the region then just cut back military spending in the region and they can't do a huge amount about it (it's actually a policy discussion going in Europe right now). I said this a few years ago and nothing seems to have been done about it.
5) Public finance isn't the same as corporate finance. If a government posts a loss on (for example) a railway, it's to the gain of taxpayers as consumers. Granted it's a little more complicated than that, but the government recording a loss isn't the same as a company recording a loss. Denmark's not sinking money into an underperforming asset, it's supporting a region that they have cultural, political and historical ties to. Over here we spend a lot more money on the Cook Islands than we'll ever get back, but if a US president made an offer to buy them the PM would quickly tell that president where to stick their offer.
6) As allblackraven said, not everything is about money. There's a reason why the US and Denmark have different rules around resource and environmental protection, for example. This ties back to the previous point that there are cultural and historical ties involved between the two countries (Greenland also has an Indigenous population), and good luck being taken seriously when you put a price on those.
7) Even if you ignore the legal, financial and cultural realities of why that deal is a non-starter (and the fact that no one seems to know whether the offer was serious in the first place should say enough) and you treat it like a freewheeling real estate offer, the other part that made the whole thing mind-blowing is the way Trump reacted to being told his absurd idea is absurd. Cancelling a state visit and calling the PM "nasty" is the most thin-skinned thing I can remember from a politician. I own property and I've received offers and made offers (including lowball ones I didn't expect to stick) and I've never known anyone in the business to react like that to being turned down (even using the word itself, which is far softer than words Trump himself uses on a daily basis). I genuinely find the whole thing staggering and my wife and I have been having a good laugh watching it play out.
As ridiculous as it sounds it’s not the first time a sale has been proposed.

https://www.apnews.com/9d4a8021c3650800fdf6dd5903f68972
 

Inqui

Pro Bowler
As ridiculous as it sounds it’s not the first time a sale has been proposed.

https://www.apnews.com/9d4a8021c3650800fdf6dd5903f68972
I do know about the previous attempts to buy it. The world's changed a lot in that time though - empires don't do horse trading anymore, national sovereignty's become a more entrenched part of international relations and the relationship between Denmark and Greenland has gotten more integrated while also putting more emphasis on Greenland's autonomy. The offer was rejected back then and since then there have been fewer reasons for a sale to go through. Like I say, a deal these days would be more like going to the UK and offering to buy Scotland.
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
1) Greenland is a dependent state, not a distressed asset in a portfolio. They've got their own constitution, their own parliament, their own maritime boundary and they do their own trade deals. Denmark can't just sell off Greenland on a whim - that goes against the constitution of both countries. It's like trying to buy Scotland off the UK - except more absurd because Greenland has more autonomy. Any deal would have to involve Greenland declaring independence. In that regard it reminds me of Gary Johnson (rightly) being laughed out of the room for not knowing about Aleppo. It's fine for you or I to not know these things, but the most powerful politician in the world should be aware of the relevant international law and know what the answer to his offer will be.
2) The subsidy is $535 million. Unless they jacked it up 35% in a year Trump is lying. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/print_gl.html
3) Their deficit last fiscal year was about $70 million. They're doing fine. https://www.dst.dk/en/Statistik/emner/nationalregnskab-og-offentlige-finanser/offentlige-finanser To respond to what you're about to say,
4) I actually agree the other NATO powers aren't spending enough on national defence. But there's a huge amount of gaps in logic between not spending enough on defensive capabilities and buying Greenland (should Trump make an offer for French Polynesia because France is also coming up short? And for Denmark why assume they have to sell Greenland and not adjust other forms of spending or add debt while it's historically cheap?). From a US perspective if you're worried about spending too much on the military in the region then just cut back military spending in the region and they can't do a huge amount about it (it's actually a policy discussion going in Europe right now). I said this a few years ago and nothing seems to have been done about it.
5) Public finance isn't the same as corporate finance. If a government posts a loss on (for example) a railway, it's to the gain of taxpayers as consumers. Granted it's a little more complicated than that, but the government recording a loss isn't the same as a company recording a loss. Denmark's not sinking money into an underperforming asset, it's supporting a region that they have cultural, political and historical ties to. Over here we spend a lot more money on the Cook Islands than we'll ever get back, but if a US president made an offer to buy them the PM would quickly tell that president where to stick their offer.
6) As allblackraven said, not everything is about money. There's a reason why the US and Denmark have different rules around resource and environmental protection, for example. This ties back to the previous point that there are cultural and historical ties involved between the two countries (Greenland also has an Indigenous population), and good luck being taken seriously when you put a price on those.
7) Even if you ignore the legal, financial and cultural realities of why that deal is a non-starter (and the fact that no one seems to know whether the offer was serious in the first place should say enough) and you treat it like a freewheeling real estate offer, the other part that made the whole thing mind-blowing is the way Trump reacted to being told his absurd idea is absurd. Cancelling a state visit and calling the PM "nasty" is the most thin-skinned thing I can remember from a politician. I own property and I've received offers and made offers (including lowball ones I didn't expect to stick) and I've never known anyone in the business to react like that to being turned down (even using the word itself, which is far softer than words Trump himself uses on a daily basis). I genuinely find the whole thing staggering and my wife and I have been having a good laugh watching it play out.

See you even got the gumption to say the idea was absurd. Trying to buy an enriched area that has possibilities of having rare earth materials,diamonds and untapperd oil reserves is "absurd". Just saying that is "nasty". So you yourself said if somebody calls your business dealings absurd and look at you like a fool you would continue doing business dealings anyway with them. Ok that's you. This president does not get mocked and go running to appease people. The proper answer should have just been no or not interested. As far as the 535 mil subsidy that was for the year 2017 maybe 18 is different but I'm sure there is other factors. So no Trump is not lying Denmark loses money!!
 

Tank

Hall of Famer
I do know about the previous attempts to buy it. The world's changed a lot in that time though - empires don't do horse trading anymore, national sovereignty's become a more entrenched part of international relations and the relationship between Denmark and Greenland has gotten more integrated while also putting more emphasis on Greenland's autonomy. The offer was rejected back then and since then there have been fewer reasons for a sale to go through. Like I say, a deal these days would be more like going to the UK and offering to buy Scotland.
Understood, but I think the Scotland analogy really doesn’t really fit. Greenland has 56,000 people on about 840k square miles. Scotland’s population is about 5 million living on 31k square miles and has been a developed nation for a much longer period of time. Much larger and diversified economy as well.

I totally agree it was an outrageous proposition, just not as laughable as portrayed.
 

Dom McRaven

Hall of Famer
Speaking of people who deserves to be called out for his disgusting remarks, Joe Walsh apparently is challenging Trump in the primaries. Good luck with that.....
 

52520Andrew

Pro Bowler
https://ourworldindata.org/natural-disasters

The earths temp over the last 150 yrs where we really have accurate readings state that the earths temp has went up a total of...……..wait for it...…..1.5 degrees. OMG!!!!!. The charts above show natural disasters are...….wait for it...….decreasing. Really was all floods reported back in 1970 becuz it says "reported natural disasters" and how in the world do we really know what the temp was really like in lets say Greenland in 1158 AD or how thick the damn ice was.

Listen if you want to talk about polluted waters and terrible air quality I'm 100% with you but all of this affecting climates...………...

As for the little video I'll say again everybody takes him way too literally. I knew he was joking but yet the left...………..remember Mexico paying for the wall well you guys thought he meant they was writing a check lol.

I am not saying he would go do that, but the fact he feels comfortable joking about that tells me all I need to know about his voters and right wing media. They probably would still vote for him if he did something like that and find a way to downplay it or say it never happened. Politics has become a lot like sports where fans of a team(party) will go to great lengths to defend their guy and that is what Trump is addressing here. The democrats are the same exact way but thankfully we don't have anyone defending Hillary on here. But I also don't think things will get better on this front anytime soon so whatever.

In regards to climate...

So wait, I thought you sided with the 3% in that it was a hoax. Is the earth warming or not? Yes or no?

That certainly looks like an increase in natural disasters long term. Of course you just want to focus on the dip the last couple years(similar to how people focused on the dip in temperatures in the 2000s before they went up again with the 2015 el nino, then they shut up real quick). The deaths one is even funnier because of course we have gotten a lot better at dealing with natural disasters(not the first time I have seen that one though, funny enough). Honestly though, some arbitrary natural disasters count doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things here and arguing about it is kinda a waste of time without diving deeper into the numbers. You don't want to go there, I don't want to go there, and honestly it is tough to say what exactly is to be expected here as this situation unfolds in the coming decades.


Frankly there are a couple reasons I haven't talked about climate on this thread to this point.
1. Just about every argument that you guys can make against it is something I have already heard.
2. I am honestly not optimistic that we are going to solve this issue.

https://ourworldindata.org/exports/annual-co-emissions-by-region_v5_850x600.svg

I'll answer questions though
 

52520Andrew

Pro Bowler
I guess wanting to buy Greenland is "absurd". According to Trump the Danes lose 700 mil a year subsidizing the island. That money could be used to properly pay the 2% of their GDP for national defense.

Why would it be a good thing for us to buy it then? Or was Trump joking about that too?
 

JO_75

Hall of Famer
https://www.dailywire.com/news/5090...ook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=benshapiro

The guy who said this vile stuff about Dan Crenshaw deserves to be called out for his disgusting remarks.

The Young....... Idiots strike again. They are the Internet CNN, the chick who does the show with the other guy is pretty hot but outside of that, the show is terrible. Sad that Czen's nephew takes after his uncle.I just want to live in a world where we don't judge people based on color, sexuality, political views, just a world where we see the person beyond the color and everything else this world is trying to separate us by.
 

JO_75

Hall of Famer
Want to know why you should never vote democrat again? It was revealed that Angels Pitcher Tyler Skaggs died of overdose, had opioids and alcohol in his system. The Angels then used the hashtag #RIP45 on Twitter and every leftist on Twitter are tweeting out how they thought it meant Trump had died and are upset that the hashtag wasn't about Trump dying and him still being alive. Then I go through the hashtag and all the tweets and there are some vile people wishing death on him, mad that he didn't die, some saying how they would be happy and celebrating if he did, etc.

Those people are enough for anyone to vote red the rest of their lives. Hate to say it but they need to realize the democrats are doing a terrible job with candidates. Hillary was a terrible candidate despite what the media wanted people to believe and the ones they are trotting out now are just as bad.
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
Want to know why you should never vote democrat again? It was revealed that Angels Pitcher Tyler Skaggs died of overdose, had opioids and alcohol in his system. The Angels then used the hashtag #RIP45 on Twitter and every leftist on Twitter are tweeting out how they thought it meant Trump had died and are upset that the hashtag wasn't about Trump dying and him still being alive. Then I go through the hashtag and all the tweets and there are some vile people wishing death on him, mad that he didn't die, some saying how they would be happy and celebrating if he did, etc.

Those people are enough for anyone to vote red the rest of their lives. Hate to say it but they need to realize the democrats are doing a terrible job with candidates. Hillary was a terrible candidate despite what the media wanted people to believe and the ones they are trotting out now are just as bad.

There is a lot of hateful violent rhetoric from the left but there's too many that just turn a blind eye.
 

gtalk12

Ravens Ring of Honor
There is a lot of hateful violent rhetoric from the left but there's too many that just turn a blind eye.

Not to say that I disagree with you, but this is literally what the left says about the right.


What is the truth? What is a lie?
 

Willbacker

Ravens Ring of Honor
Not to say that I disagree with you, but this is literally what the left says about the right.


What is the truth? What is a lie?

Well unless you consider white nationalists on the right what hateful violent rhetoric do you hear from conservatives? Doxxing, blacklisting/boycotting and wishing our president was dead?



https://nypost.com/2019/08/06/protesters-shout-death-threats-outside-mitch-mcconnells-home/

Make sure you read the article. This is just a fraction of the instances of hateful rhetoric. This is just one example of "peaceful protests".
 

52520Andrew

Pro Bowler
Not to say that I disagree with you, but this is literally what the left says about the right.


What is the truth? What is a lie?
It isn't hard to go find stupid tweets by people on the opposing side. Dumb tweets are everywhere, it isn't breaking news unless you never go on the site
 

gtalk12

Ravens Ring of Honor
Well unless you consider white nationalists on the right what hateful violent rhetoric do you hear from conservatives? Doxxing, blacklisting/boycotting and wishing our president was dead?



https://nypost.com/2019/08/06/protesters-shout-death-threats-outside-mitch-mcconnells-home/

Make sure you read the article. This is just a fraction of the instances of hateful rhetoric. This is just one example of "peaceful protests".



Throughout the years, neither party has admitted to the filth that hides within their parties pockets. The left has many groups that call themselves liberals or democrats because some of the things they say or want somewhat matches what they feel. So they proceed with that. It is literally the same exact thing on the right.
 
I was strongly considering voting for Trump this year but Ive changed my mind, Im not thrilled by the current democratic candidates either.

I guess Im just unrepresented now.
 

gtalk12

Ravens Ring of Honor
I was strongly considering voting for Trump this year but Ive changed my mind, Im not thrilled by the current democratic candidates either.

I guess Im just unrepresented now.


What made you change your mind?
 
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