The Bad, The Ugly, and the Pathetic

[gtalk12]

1. Agree on Hurst. I don't think he'll ever really be much in this offense. This team can't really sustain two quality TE's in my mind, and I think Andrews looks like a stud. Its unfortunate, because there's players we could have gotten there that would have helped more.
I try to think of it this way... if we took Andrews in the 1st, and Hurst in the 3rd, would we be complaining that much about it? Not ideal certainly.
2. I'm not sure where the "receivers hoopla" in the preseason came from. You basically didn't get to see Hollywood Brown at all, Snead looks exactly like we thought he was (not a world-beater, but a reliable set of hands). So what else was there? Boykin looked better in the preseason, but he's still like your 3rd/4th option in the receiver core, at best. How many teams do you know that can sustain quality production from a 3rd/4th receiver most weeks?
I, nor anybody else, should have bought in on guys like Moore or Roberts or anybody else. YOU'VE SEEN THEM PLAY BEFORE. Why would you think this year is any different? Did anybody really think Joe Flacco was what was holding Chris Moore back?
The reason I'm not concerned about the pass catchers is because, like Lamar, they're all young and have room to grow. And we need to give them at least a couple years to do so. If we just keep drafting more playmakers because a rookie doesn't impress, you'll miss on quality talent that was already there.

My stance on the offense is that, except for the Oline, its mostly rookies. I come close to viewing Lamar as a rookie. He played half a season last year, ran about as conservative of an offense as you could possibly run, and still has less than 16 games under his belt. As a passer... he's WAY ahead of where I thought he'd be. He's not as accurate as I'd like, but he's WAY more accurate than he was last year. His mechanics are greatly improved, which was the one thing I cared about. With the offense, I see clear paths where players can improve.

On defense, I see a lot less of that. In fact, it's close to none. I think a guy like Averett or maybe Canady might improve, but who else? I know what Bowser and Wiliams can and can't do. I know what Onwausor can and can't do. I sure as hell know what Jefferson can and can't do.

Can't say I disagree with this.

 

[BloodRaven]

Honestly I slept on this game and I think someone should be fired, whether that’s a coach or player cut, after this game. That’s how bad this was. A total defensive meltdown. Nobody on defense looked good except a handful of guys. This is a disgrace to Ravens defense. Eric & Ozzie should also answer for this because they set up this “team”. They had to know this interior OL had issues pass blocking and edge defenders were garbage rushing the passer. We’re getting screened to death and Lamar has little time to throw because dudes are getting free releases up the middle and disrupting him. He’s holding the ball too long trying to make a pot and that’s cool he has that confidence but he needs to learn to throw it away as well. I called that we had interior OL issues and had major concerns for edge defender and I wasn’t alone. If I could see it then I know we had to see it. Eric and Ozzie have some real answering to do here.

We've been saying all year the oline would get exposed, Skura has had his 3rd trash game in a row against good competition, him and Bozeman anchor like theyre on roller skates. LG has been a problem for years and the front office ignores it, next year when Yanda retires the entire interior is going to be trash.

 

[rmcjacket23]

We've been saying all year the oline would get exposed, Skura has had his 3rd trash game in a row against good competition, him and Bozeman anchor like theyre on roller skates. LG has been a problem for years and the front office ignores it, next year when Yanda retires the entire interior is going to be trash.

I think Skura has been generally fine. I think he's average, and you're paying him far less than what you would have to pay somebody to be average.
FilmStudy does great breakdowns of Oline play and defense.
https://www.filmstudyravens.com/

Obviously don't have week 4 grades, but through 3 weeks, he gave Skura pretty average marks. Obviously LG is an issue, but if you have two tackles who have played well, an average center, and an All-World RG, your offensive line really should be considered pretty damn good. And generally, I think its been fine.

My issue with fans is that I was told that the reason you move from Flacco to Lamar is because Lamar can move in and around the pocket well enough that you don't have to invest in 5 stud lineman to make him successful. So was that not true, or what has changed?

I'm in no way a believer that one bad position on the Oline derails the whole group. Will be interesting to see what week 4 prognosis looks like from people who evaluate this stuff better than I can.

 

[Militant X 1]

After that embarrassing performance and loss at "DA BANK"...the Ravens sign MLB L.J. Fort:

https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/ravens-sign-former-steelers-veteran-inside-linebacker

 

[BloodRaven]

I think Skura has been generally fine. I think he's average, and you're paying him far less than what you would have to pay somebody to be average.
FilmStudy does great breakdowns of Oline play and defense.
https://www.filmstudyravens.com/

Obviously don't have week 4 grades, but through 3 weeks, he gave Skura pretty average marks. Obviously LG is an issue, but if you have two tackles who have played well, an average center, and an All-World RG, your offensive line really should be considered pretty damn good. And generally, I think its been fine.

My issue with fans is that I was told that the reason you move from Flacco to Lamar is because Lamar can move in and around the pocket well enough that you don't have to invest in 5 stud lineman to make him successful. So was that not true, or what has changed?

I'm in no way a believer that one bad position on the Oline derails the whole group. Will be interesting to see what week 4 prognosis looks like from people who evaluate this stuff better than I can.

The mobility argument for fielding bad linemen is dumb, why? because RG3 and Luck could move around the pocket too, how did they do without stud linemen? The pocket keeps collapsing in Lamars face and if it keeps happening one day hes not going to get back up

 

[RavensMania]

I think Skura has been generally fine. I think he's average, and you're paying him far less than what you would have to pay somebody to be average.
FilmStudy does great breakdowns of Oline play and defense.
https://www.filmstudyravens.com/

Obviously don't have week 4 grades, but through 3 weeks, he gave Skura pretty average marks. Obviously LG is an issue, but if you have two tackles who have played well, an average center, and an All-World RG, your offensive line really should be considered pretty damn good. And generally, I think its been fine.

My issue with fans is that I was told that the reason you move from Flacco to Lamar is because Lamar can move in and around the pocket well enough that you don't have to invest in 5 stud lineman to make him successful. So was that not true, or what has changed?

I'm in no way a believer that one bad position on the Oline derails the whole group. Will be interesting to see what week 4 prognosis looks like from people who evaluate this stuff better than I can.

I'm not a fan of Skura and Bozeman isn't a good pass blocker. I think having two bad position groups inside is a recipe for disaster. That being said, I'm ok giving Bozeman a full year of starting to see if he improves, unless Ben Powers starts showing really well in practice.

 

[Sami84]

It's sad that we've wasted a HOF Guards career by using up the last half-decade with average to below-average LG and C.

People have no idea how an elite and dominant running O line could have masked our deficiencies on Defense. If we focused our energy on building the best O line in football we'd simply not be able to be stopped in the running game.

 

[rmcjacket23]

The mobility argument for fielding bad linemen is dumb, why? because RG3 and Luck could move around the pocket too, how did they do without stud linemen? The pocket keeps collapsing in Lamars face and if it keeps happening one day hes not going to get back up

I agree it's dumb.

My problem with this is two-fold:
1. If you have five stud lineman, I can promise you that eventually one or two of them will get hurt, and when they do, unless you also invested heavily in depth, you'll have what you have. And the likelihood of having one or more offensive lineman injured is quite high. If you look back historically... how frequently do you think any team in the league starts its best five lineman at any given time? Its low.
That's why I'm a bigger fan of James Hurst then most. He's versatile, and he can play every position except for Center at an average level. In this day and age in the NFL, that's borderline impossible to find. You can barely find an average Tackle coming out of college in the first round.
2. If you want a stud Oline, fine. Gotta pay for it. It'll cost significant draft capital, followed by significant financial capital. So where do you pull the money from to pay for that? Chances are, it'll come from your play making receivers, or your defense.
And the last thing I think I'm voting for right now is to take what little assets I see away from this defense.

So like we can spend this offseason on LG and Center if you want. But between retaining some of your own guys (or letting them walk and opening up more holes), that means you have less assets to invest in Dline, Linebacker, Corner, etc., all of which we will need by June.

I'm personally disappointed that Ben Powers isn't our starting LG, and clearly, he didn't do nearly enough to win that job. I expected more from him, because I think you can get solid Guard play from mid-round picks. Does that mean we need to spend a 1 or a 2 next year on one? Maybe. But that's a 1 or a 2 you don't spend on a pass rusher, or an ILB, or a Corner. It's not like we have a great track record of developing those guys in the mid to later rounds recently either.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I'm not a fan of Skura and Bozeman isn't a good pass blocker. I think having two bad position groups inside is a recipe for disaster. That being said, I'm ok giving Bozeman a full year of starting to see if he improves, unless Ben Powers starts showing really well in practice.

I think Skura is average. If you were paying him to be a stud, then I'd call it a problem.

Like it or not, there's one thing I've learned from Roman and this coaching staff... they value continuity on the Oline. Their objective its to get five guys to play together long enough that they'll be above average when its all said and done. I think they believe they can coach the talent out of these guys.

Maybe they can, maybe they can't. But I think they know they're going to try for at least this year before they go the path of trying to gut the middle of the line and start over.

 

[Sandtown]

The mobility argument for fielding bad linemen is dumb, why? because RG3 and Luck could move around the pocket too, how did they do without stud linemen? The pocket keeps collapsing in Lamars face and if it keeps happening one day hes not going to get back up

I tend to think that Lamar Jackson line is better than what Luck and RGIII had to experience. Ravens fans have been talking about the offensive linemen for the past 3 years but The Ravens dont really have a bad offensive line. Its no where near as bad as it was in 2013 but i get it since we used to seeing Matt Birk and K.O we expect more and rightfully so.The reality is that most teams in The NFL is lacking quality offensive linemen.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I tend to think that Lamar Jackson line is better than what Luck and RGIII had to experience. Ravens fans have been talking about the offensive linemen for the past 3 years but The Ravens dont really have a bad offensive line. Its no where near as bad as it was in 2013 but i get it since we used to seeing Matt Birk and K.O we expect more and rightfully so.The reality is that most teams in The NFL is lacking quality offensive linemen.

This line is built specifically for this offense. It's a great run blocking line that struggles in pass protection when faced with great defensive fronts.
The pass concepts to begin with are based on run/pass/play action, and aren't based on 7 step drops and max protections.
And I agree... there are quality football teams who have much worse Olines than ours.

 

[gtalk12]

I agree it's dumb.

My problem with this is two-fold:
1. If you have five stud lineman, I can promise you that eventually one or two of them will get hurt, and when they do, unless you also invested heavily in depth, you'll have what you have. And the likelihood of having one or more offensive lineman injured is quite high. If you look back historically... how frequently do you think any team in the league starts its best five lineman at any given time? Its low.
That's why I'm a bigger fan of James Hurst then most. He's versatile, and he can play every position except for Center at an average level. In this day and age in the NFL, that's borderline impossible to find. You can barely find an average Tackle coming out of college in the first round.
2. If you want a stud Oline, fine. Gotta pay for it. It'll cost significant draft capital, followed by significant financial capital. So where do you pull the money from to pay for that? Chances are, it'll come from your play making receivers, or your defense.
And the last thing I think I'm voting for right now is to take what little assets I see away from this defense.

So like we can spend this offseason on LG and Center if you want. But between retaining some of your own guys (or letting them walk and opening up more holes), that means you have less assets to invest in Dline, Linebacker, Corner, etc., all of which we will need by June.

I'm personally disappointed that Ben Powers isn't our starting LG, and clearly, he didn't do nearly enough to win that job. I expected more from him, because I think you can get solid Guard play from mid-round picks. Does that mean we need to spend a 1 or a 2 next year on one? Maybe. But that's a 1 or a 2 you don't spend on a pass rusher, or an ILB, or a Corner. It's not like we have a great track record of developing those guys in the mid to later rounds recently either.

I think the 2020 Free Agency market will have a few key positions available.

 

[cdp]

This would've never happened in New England. Wink has to realize he can't run the same scheme/call the same plays as last year. You gotta play to your strengths.

 

[RavensMania]

I think Skura is average. If you were paying him to be a stud, then I'd call it a problem.

Like it or not, there's one thing I've learned from Roman and this coaching staff... they value continuity on the Oline. Their objective its to get five guys to play together long enough that they'll be above average when its all said and done. I think they believe they can coach the talent out of these guys.

Maybe they can, maybe they can't. But I think they know they're going to try for at least this year before they go the path of trying to gut the middle of the line and start over.

I think you are right, plus having Nick Boyle is like having a 6th lineman, which is why they grade well as a unit. I'd love to have atleast a very good LG or C and especially with Yanda coming to the end of his career.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I think the 2020 Free Agency market will have a few key positions available.

Generally speaking, I don't. I think most of your guys who become FAs are so for a reason.
I don't think you'll be finding much in terms of Oline help in FA, because there really haven't been that many good Olineman to hit FA in the last few years.

Corner and maybe ILB? Maybe a good shot to land somebody there, but again, you're shopping at the top of the market for pretty much anybody. Pass Rusher I think there's 0%.

If we want quality pass rushers and lineman, you're probably going to the draft. And Olineman in the draft is a utter dart throw at this point in time.

 

[RavensMania]

This line is built specifically for this offense. It's a great run blocking line that struggles in pass protection when faced with great defensive fronts.
The pass concepts to begin with are based on run/pass/play action, and aren't based on 7 step drops and max protections.
And I agree... there are quality football teams who have much worse Olines than ours.

I agree that this line is built specifically for this offense, but disagree that Skura is a good run blocker. He grades out as a better pass blocker then run blocker.

 

[gtalk12]

Generally speaking, I don't. I think most of your guys who become FAs are so for a reason.
I don't think you'll be finding much in terms of Oline help in FA, because there really haven't been that many good Olineman to hit FA in the last few years.

Corner and maybe ILB? Maybe a good shot to land somebody there, but again, you're shopping at the top of the market for pretty much anybody. Pass Rusher I think there's 0%.

If we want quality pass rushers and lineman, you're probably going to the draft. And Olineman in the draft is a utter dart throw at this point in time.

I really wish we made the move for Clowney man....I was thinking of free agency for OLB and DE.

 

[rossihunter2]

The snap counts are really ugly at OLB
Jaylon Ferguson outsnapped bowser and Williams - Timmy played 7 total snaps on defence - I didn’t think he played badly against the chiefs but somehow he’s not getting snaps despite the team not being able to get pressure on the edge - what’s going on?

Bowser’s shown us that he’s a liability in the running game and Jaylon’s still learning - how is Timmy not even getting snaps as an edge setter just to spell pernell?

Likewise we’re down Brandon Williams and activated daylon mack only for mack to play 9 total snaps... that makes very little sense to me given his athletic profile

The bwill injury also hurt our offence because Ricard couldn’t play as many snaps at FB because he was needed at DT which is clearly an issue - he only had 8 snaps of offence compared to 35 on defence

One promising sign is that Elliott finally got some snaps (only 9 but it’s more than before) - you’ve got to think with how poorly Jefferson’s playing that Elliott has a chance to steal some snaps

 

[Militant X 1]

The snap counts are really ugly at OLB
Jaylon Ferguson outsnapped bowser and Williams - Timmy played 7 total snaps on defence - I didn’t think he played badly against the chiefs but somehow he’s not getting snaps despite the team not being able to get pressure on the edge - what’s going on?

Bowser’s shown us that he’s a liability in the running game and Jaylon’s still learning - how is Timmy not even getting snaps as an edge setter just to spell pernell?

Likewise we’re down Brandon Williams and activated daylon mack only for mack to play 9 total snaps... that makes very little sense to me given his athletic profile

The bwill injury also hurt our offence because Ricard couldn’t play as many snaps at FB because he was needed at DT which is clearly an issue - he only had 8 snaps of offence compared to 35 on defence

One promising sign is that Elliott finally got some snaps (only 9 but it’s more than before) - you’ve got to think with how poorly Jefferson’s playing that Elliott has a chance to steal some snaps

And that move of Ricard to DT opposed to him playing FB takes away from our running game. Show our lack of depth on defense.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I agree that this line is built specifically for this offense, but disagree that Skura is a good run blocker. He grades out as a better pass blocker then run blocker.

Right, but I'm talking more as a unit as a whole than as individual contributors. Its a great run blocking unit, and probably an average pass blocking unit.