JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
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General Draft Thoughts
- Thread starter rossihunter2
- Start date
SepticeyePoe
Hall of Famer
The admin has spoken, lol. Might as well keep the fun in one place.
I dnt thinks its good to use analytics on trading up success unless we are going by our own history.. i think that was a smoke screen by decosta especially when in the past, we have tried to trade up ,and each one of those players( ramsey,lattimore,mack) all have had great careers... is he talking about players success being “50/50”? or trading up with the team being a 50/50 chance of them accepting the deal?
LSURavenFan
Veteran
i think they're referring to the players being successful
and with regards to trading up we also tried to trade up for haason reddick...
as EDC said in the pre-draft group presser... sometimes the best trades are the ones you dont make...
philosophically i dont think EDC likes the idea of trading up in the 1st round - because he's a guy who likes smart analytics and analytics suggest more picks not fewer picks - but he's also a football guy who learned under Ozzie so he also learned that you also have to make a pick
ultimately you trust your evaluations but you also have to trust how and where you value them
and you cant just use our own history of trading up in the 1st round because we havent done it very often... we traded back into the 1st round in 2018 (not sure whether that statistically counts - but ill include it) which obviously has worked out great, we traded up 3 picks to get michael oher in 2009, and joe flacco in 2008, technically we traded up 1 spot for Haloti Ngata, we traded up from our 2nd round pick (using a future 1st rounder) to get Kyle Boller in 2003, for travis taylor in 2000
that's 6 times in ravens history we've gone up in the draft with very mixed results - but that's not enough to study trends especially when all bar 1 happened before 2010... you have to look at other teams
Edgar
Ravens Ring of Honor
A shot of us sending 7
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Ahh. Looked good too. Everyone was covered
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
No reason to believe Eric is pressed on choir boy status the way Ozzie was.
Dom McRaven
Hall of Famer
Glad you accepted it. Your life will now be less stressful. I encourage others to do the same. Stop resisting and accept the inevitable.
JO_75
Hall of Famer
A fine suggestion of how we can Boo Roger Goodell on Draft Day, from Reddit:
Raiders MrAmericanIdiot 10 points·32 minutes ago
Everyone in the US should set up a PA system out their bedroom window. And as Goodell comes on our computer screens, we simultaneously scream boo. Sound should shake the entire US, causing one giant “Boo” earthquake.
Raiders MrAmericanIdiot 10 points·32 minutes ago
Everyone in the US should set up a PA system out their bedroom window. And as Goodell comes on our computer screens, we simultaneously scream boo. Sound should shake the entire US, causing one giant “Boo” earthquake.
I see what you mean now but i feels its just not accurate to base something off others teams success when talking trading up for players.. we have a whole different scouting team, management and everything you know. Not to mention, every pick you take is 50/50 regardless of where you pick.
Im gonna assume he was talking about elite level success when regarding the 50/50 thing. Cause smart as our staff is, i just dont believe they would just go into this thing thinking “ we arent trading up because the chance of that player being good is a 50/50 chance”... other teams bad scouting and evaluation shouldnt stop us from making moves we wanna make
Edit: maybe im just over thinking it
Last edited:
Edgar
Ravens Ring of Honor
Sort of. Browns went for it and converted on 4th and 1 and then scored a TD.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Someone convince me one way or another on uche.
From day one, since LONNGGG AGO when he was regarded as a round 3/4 type, I was a huge fan, I loved his film about as much as anyone I had watched, I’ve watched more of him than anyone in this class which admittedly doesn’t mean much because I’ve watched much less film the past 2 years than I used to, but anyway...
He is so goddamn consistently great on film. From the edge, standup or 3 point, he shows incredible pass rush talent, his fire off the snap is as good as anyone in the class, his bend is probably the best in the class as he uses that short frame and absurd flexibility to drop that upper body so low to the ground he’s got shoulders at the OTs waist level while maintaining speed and balance, it’s absurd. His finishing ability is through the roof as well, when he turns that arc he is gonna impact the throw, he is so good at squaring up after the bend and stepping on the gas and securing the tackle.
He packs a punch when he engages in a skinnier rush, that short frame is put to good use as he comes from down low and gives shocking blows to the blockers core, really staggering guys and creating space and putting them on their heels so he can make his next move. Not a power guy, but really can get up in your shit and back you off a bit so he can let that quickness shine.
slippery, he does a great job using that quickness and flexibility in the run game as well, he slides through traffic very well and blockers just never get clean blocks on him, he’s a pain in the ass for an OL because you can knock him around a bit but you can’t latch and drive, ever, he’s too slippery and quick and nifty with his hands.
he’s a stud of an off ball LB, his vision and pursuit rival the likes of a Patrick queen, and he can engage a blocker with the same violence that a queen can, but is a surer tackler with much better length. He’s stellar in coverage too, great vision on the qb, great zone awareness, positions himself beautifully, not much for ball skills, but can prevent completions.
bad things I’ve seen on tape:
When he doesn’t get the speed advantage off the jump, he tends to have a bad approach, he will often go 2 hands full bull rush square in the blockers chest which plain and simple won’t work for him.
literally, the only problem I have with this guy, is tyus bowser, haasson reddick, those types of guys. They make it hard to commit.
From day one, since LONNGGG AGO when he was regarded as a round 3/4 type, I was a huge fan, I loved his film about as much as anyone I had watched, I’ve watched more of him than anyone in this class which admittedly doesn’t mean much because I’ve watched much less film the past 2 years than I used to, but anyway...
He is so goddamn consistently great on film. From the edge, standup or 3 point, he shows incredible pass rush talent, his fire off the snap is as good as anyone in the class, his bend is probably the best in the class as he uses that short frame and absurd flexibility to drop that upper body so low to the ground he’s got shoulders at the OTs waist level while maintaining speed and balance, it’s absurd. His finishing ability is through the roof as well, when he turns that arc he is gonna impact the throw, he is so good at squaring up after the bend and stepping on the gas and securing the tackle.
He packs a punch when he engages in a skinnier rush, that short frame is put to good use as he comes from down low and gives shocking blows to the blockers core, really staggering guys and creating space and putting them on their heels so he can make his next move. Not a power guy, but really can get up in your shit and back you off a bit so he can let that quickness shine.
slippery, he does a great job using that quickness and flexibility in the run game as well, he slides through traffic very well and blockers just never get clean blocks on him, he’s a pain in the ass for an OL because you can knock him around a bit but you can’t latch and drive, ever, he’s too slippery and quick and nifty with his hands.
he’s a stud of an off ball LB, his vision and pursuit rival the likes of a Patrick queen, and he can engage a blocker with the same violence that a queen can, but is a surer tackler with much better length. He’s stellar in coverage too, great vision on the qb, great zone awareness, positions himself beautifully, not much for ball skills, but can prevent completions.
bad things I’ve seen on tape:
When he doesn’t get the speed advantage off the jump, he tends to have a bad approach, he will often go 2 hands full bull rush square in the blockers chest which plain and simple won’t work for him.
literally, the only problem I have with this guy, is tyus bowser, haasson reddick, those types of guys. They make it hard to commit.
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
So, we're taking Marlon Davidson and Jonathan Greenard - DeCosta obviously told them to hide.
they're not saying they wouldnt trade up - they're saying that trading up is incredibly risky because its still not a guarantee and you're giving up chances to take players at your initial spot
EDC was very clear that they would do it for someone who they thought was an elite talent who was falling - but they'd have to be convinced that this guy was elite vs the type of player they'd be getting if they stick at their original pick
Pros:
- Elite bend
- great first step and burst
- some nice ability in coverage with some room to develop - really natural dropping
Cons:
- not sure where he plays
- if he doesn't win with his bend initially then he's likely not going to affect the QB at all
- lack of power and anchor - often spends time on the ground or getting completely nullified by a tackle (tackles dont fear his speed to power)
- when he does go into the body of OL he engages the whole man not half the man
- frequently taken off the field on 1st and 2nd down - struggles to disengage and shed in the running game
his bend makes him attractive, his potential in coverage make him attractive, his burst and speed make him attractive
everything else to me makes him not a player i want us to draft before early day 3
if we think of him in terms of Tyus Bowser - well Tyus doesnt play a lot on early downs, Tyus is much better in coverage and while Uche's bend makes him potentially more lethal than Bowser as a pass rusher there's no guarantee
add to the fact that we didnt move Tyus to ILB because he's better covering from OLB and also (like Uche) is not a guy who will shed or come downhill as a ILB in the running game - we learnt our lesson from Correa by not moving Tyus, but it probably also means that we're less likely to draft Uche high if he's only going to play 3rd down (and other obvious passing downs) - we criticise Tyus a lot but I dont think Uche as a rookie would have a bigger impact than him and that's what we're looking for in rounds 1-3 - immediate impact
so i like uche the prospect, not a big fan of him for the Ravens - to me he's an early day 3 type pickup if he falls there - but i have to think some team takes him higher
ok, what will you do if they don't draft Murray. Maybe stay quiet until the 2021 season.