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General Draft Thoughts

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
A couple of years ago I thought he was good at what he did - I’ve found myself resenting his takes a lot more as time has gone on - I find him very out of touch with what’s going on in the league

But annoyingly he still gets incredible access to the teams and their draft rooms which makes some of his stuff absolute must reads
I've always resented Peter King for his take on Art Monk and how he shouldn't get into the HOF. Bill Parcells statement when Art Monk retired "He should go into the HOF downhill and on rollerscates." Crazy how long it took to get in and Peter King was the one behind it.

Anyway, I don't pay attention to his mocks nor much that he ever says now.
 

cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
For any nerds out there who want to see one of the studies about trading down vs up (im assuming this is one of the ones that EDC was referring to earlier in the offseason)

https://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1138&context=oid_papers

a real-life academic study about trading and the draft - i have not read it yet but the long and short of it seems to be that trading up in the first round is dumb - and mostly because gms and teams overvalue how important early picks are (i.e. a top 10 player is not that much better than a top 20 player but the way they're valued suggests they are significantly better)

this excerpt courtesy of michael crawford on twitter:



i will hopefully read this tomorrow lol - albeit it's 59 pages long and i think i already know where it's going

but its conclusions may suggest that an organisation that uses analytics might be allergic to a 1st round trade up unless it's for a QB or for a player they are confident is elite

Here are a couple of excerpts in case you don't have time...Caveat it's from 2011, so there might have been some changes.
...we find that their [GMs, Scouting] ability to predict performance is quite low [as found in similar studies]
...We also find that teams discount the future at an extraordinary rate (136 percent). -> A 2020 3rd round pick is roughly equal to a 2021 2nd round pick (mean ~32.5)
...What is the likelihood that a player is better than the next player chosen at his position? ... teams believe that they have the ability to distinguish the good from the great players, implying that this probability is high. If instead teams had no ability to judge talent, the probability would be 50 percent.The answer is 52 percent. Across all rounds, all positions, all years, the chance that aplayer proves to be better than the next best alternative is only slightly better than a coin-flip...

surplus.JPG


This is imho the most interesting finding, as it pretty much confirms what has happened over the last couple of years. It basically tells you which draftslot gives most bang for your buck. In this case for WR it's the second round. It says not that 1st round WRs don't produce, they can still have more yards than a 2nd round WR, but proportionally you're paying more.

This is valid across all positions:..we find surplus value of the picks during the first round actually increases throughout most of the round: the player selected with the final pick in the first round on average produces more surplus to his team than the first pick!

Implied values relative to the 1st pick are: 5th pick 68%, 10th pick 51%, 16th 38%, 32nd 20% and 64th 7%.

Bottom line: Trade down. The more picks you have in the 1st and 2nd round the more chances you have. And you'd better draft well in the 2nd because there is the most value.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Here are a couple of excerpts in case you don't have time...Caveat it's from 2011, so there might have been some changes.
...we find that their [GMs, Scouting] ability to predict performance is quite low [as found in similar studies]
...We also find that teams discount the future at an extraordinary rate (136 percent). -> A 2020 3rd round pick is roughly equal to a 2021 2nd round pick (mean ~32.5)
...What is the likelihood that a player is better than the next player chosen at his position? ... teams believe that they have the ability to distinguish the good from the great players, implying that this probability is high. If instead teams had no ability to judge talent, the probability would be 50 percent.The answer is 52 percent. Across all rounds, all positions, all years, the chance that aplayer proves to be better than the next best alternative is only slightly better than a coin-flip...

View attachment 2295

This is imho the most interesting finding, as it pretty much confirms what has happened over the last couple of years. It basically tells you which draftslot gives most bang for your buck. In this case for WR it's the second round. It says not that 1st round WRs don't produce, they can still have more yards than a 2nd round WR, but proportionally you're paying more.

This is valid across all positions:..we find surplus value of the picks during the first round actually increases throughout most of the round: the player selected with the final pick in the first round on average produces more surplus to his team than the first pick!

Implied values relative to the 1st pick are: 5th pick 68%, 10th pick 51%, 16th 38%, 32nd 20% and 64th 7%.

Bottom line: Trade down. The more picks you have in the 1st and 2nd round the more chances you have. And you'd better draft well in the 2nd because there is the most value.

imagine how good this team would be if it could draft in the 2nd round lol

i posited somewhere that there's a feasible and fairly achievable way for us to get 4 2nd round picks - that's seeming more and more attractive right now
 

Edgar

Ravens Ring of Honor
Jordyn Brooks is getting drafted in the First Round.

Ask a DC, LB coach, or college director to rank the 3 ILBs... I’ve asked 15 (combined) of them to date who extensively watched all 3. NONE had Brooks as #3 (of 3). Many have him as #1. This is fact. Stay woke & @ me draft day!

(this is from someone called, Erik Burkhardt s Twitter)
 

Sami84

Ravens Ring of Honor
38 more hours of this crap * correction

it'll be around 50 hours as we're trading out of the first round.
 

Edgar

Ravens Ring of Honor
in keeping with the 4 picks in round 2 movement started by @rossihunter2
Marlon Davidson
Josh Uche
KJ Hamler
Malik Harrison (maybe Malik will be there in round 3 and we could sub this out for IOL) But Marlon and Malik are two physical run stopping beat you up football players
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
in keeping with the 4 picks in round 2 movement started by @rossihunter2
Marlon Davidson
Josh Uche
KJ Hamler
Malik Harrison (maybe Malik will be there in round 3 and we could sub this out for IOL) But Marlon and Malik are two physical run stopping beat you up football players

That’s a lot of playmakers - I could quibble with each individually but ultimately that would be a nice haul overall

Would be disappointed not to get an OL - it really seems like lots of prognosticators and evaluators are projecting Robert hunt to us so i don’t know if that’s something that the community knows that hasn’t been released - or whether they’re just doing what we’re doing and making sense of the fit here

I think a good OL will be available somewhere in round 2 (especially if we do grab 4 2nd rounders lol)

If we could get in our 2nd round haul one of the top 10 WRs, one of the top 7 DL, an interior OL - or tackle who could move inside (Ruiz if he falls or Cushenberry, Hunt, Niang, Wilson etc.) and an EDGE (if one we like is available)
 

cobrajet

Hall of Famer
That’s a lot of playmakers - I could quibble with each individually but ultimately that would be a nice haul overall

Would be disappointed not to get an OL - it really seems like lots of prognosticators and evaluators are projecting Robert hunt to us so i don’t know if that’s something that the community knows that hasn’t been released - or whether they’re just doing what we’re doing and making sense of the fit here

I think a good OL will be available somewhere in round 2 (especially if we do grab 4 2nd rounders lol)

If we could get in our 2nd round haul one of the top 10 WRs, one of the top 7 DL, an interior OL - or tackle who could move inside (Ruiz if he falls or Cushenberry, Hunt, Niang, Wilson etc.) and an EDGE (if one we like is available)
I would very much like to grab one of the OL you mention in the second.
 

Believe Dat

Practice Squad
in keeping with the 4 picks in round 2 movement started by @rossihunter2
Marlon Davidson
Josh Uche
KJ Hamler
Malik Harrison (maybe Malik will be there in round 3 and we could sub this out for IOL) But Marlon and Malik are two physical run stopping beat you up football players
This seems like a good move. Can quibble with the players maybe, but 4 picks in the 2nd round of this draft would be amazing. Just not sure who would want to trade up to 28th unfortunately.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Didnt really know where to put this but was watching some more jeudy film...

am i crazy to think that Devonta Smith probably turns into the best pro of all the alabama wrs in that group?

i guess he gets to prove he's a better prospect next year with waddle for company (albeit no tua)
looking at the 2021 class generally it wont be as deep as this class (because this class is crazy with depth) but i think the guys at the top are going to be better prospects than the guys at the top this year... and devonta smith might be one of them - but lets see how he does when defences decide to key on him more i suppose
 

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
Didnt really know where to put this but was watching some more jeudy film...

am i crazy to think that Devonta Smith probably turns into the best pro of all the alabama wrs in that group?
No, and if you remember, we talked about this during the season.
Smith and Waddle are Bama WRs I really want, not Jeudy and Ruggs
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
No, and if you remember, we talked about this during the season.
Smith and Waddle are Bama WRs I really want, not Jeudy and Ruggs

i talked about liking him - but i didnt think at the time id be talking about him as a better actual prospect

i partly wonder if devonta is doing himself any favours by going back to college - he wont have tua around to throw to him and he wont have jeudy and ruggs drawing attention away - and he loses a year of being in the league

but then again if he goes off this year with a new QB and with all the attention then he likely proves to every pundit out there that he's a bona fide talent in a shallower class and makes himself some money

but i did really like the idea in early january of potentially 3 players at the same position, from the same school going in the 1st round of the draft in the same draft class - would have been cool
 
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