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General Draft Thoughts

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I think they move him all around (Epenesa). he can play 5t, 3T and rush OLB. I mean, we had Ferguson playing rush backer and Suggs, though he was as smart as they come, was never what I would call athletic or particularly apt dropping. Epenesa can play that role along with moving a bit.
The other thing is that we play so many 2 down looks and he can certainly rotate that way on passing downs particularly.

exactly - he becomes a chess piece on your DL who's not coming off the field

he starts at Rush LB most likely but could also flex inside and play on the interior with someone like Jaylon outside him (and vice versa)

and thinking about the running game he's someone who comes in and immediately becomes physical enough to set the edge which was a huge problem last year - he's not a great technical run defender yet but he has all the tools and football iq to be great at it and he's already so effective on the edge - and has shown the processing ability to penetrate from the interior on running downs

If our evaluation of Ferguson was high enough that we liked him, I don't see why we wouldn't also like AJ Epenesa - outside of the 40 time, Epenesa has Ferguson beat on everything else and we still drafted Jaylon despite all that and playing lower competition
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
The way he answered the Linebacker/Murray/Queen question made me feel reassured we won't pick a guy like Brooks (said something like: coverage ability) and that pretty much takes Murray out of the equation (caveat)
I like how he basically didn't answer their question about Robert Hunt.
I really don't know why, but why on earth did Mink compare Murray to Ray?

i like how hortiz shut that comparison down quickly without tipping his hand lol

idk about the ravens in general but since the beginning ive always seemed to get the impression that hortiz does not like the idea of these top of the class LBs - he's seemed pretty lukewarm at best the whole way on the whole idea (and maybe that's just him being a professional and basically doing counterintelligence) but add that into his pre-draft presser line about liking the guys later in the class who are good at one thing but maybe not everything and how they are still attractive for those qualities
 
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allblackraven

Hall of Famer
you dont think the testing affects him at all?
Probably will for some teams. I still like him regardless, to me he looks to do everything at different speed in the game, compared to his combine drills. Always liked the D linemen who never stop and, as mentioned, gives you versatility all along the front.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
I really like Epenesa, but I just have a hard time seeing the Pats pass on him. IMO he’s everything Bellichick wants in a pass rusher

i think it's about whether someone like xavier mckinney falls to the pats (someone of that ilk and disposition) - the pats board is always weird vs the rest of the league and you're absolutely right that epenesa feels like a guy they would like

the pats, vikings and seahawks to me are the biggest threats to take epenesa

that being said - if @allblackraven is right and epenesa is in play earlier in the draft then maybe we see the Falcons or 49ers or Cowboys go after him - 11 to the jets feels to early to me but who knows - they've not had an edge rusher since I can remember
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
For any nerds out there who want to see one of the studies about trading down vs up (im assuming this is one of the ones that EDC was referring to earlier in the offseason)

https://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1138&context=oid_papers

a real-life academic study about trading and the draft - i have not read it yet but the long and short of it seems to be that trading up in the first round is dumb - and mostly because gms and teams overvalue how important early picks are (i.e. a top 10 player is not that much better than a top 20 player but the way they're valued suggests they are significantly better)

this excerpt courtesy of michael crawford on twitter:



i will hopefully read this tomorrow lol - albeit it's 59 pages long and i think i already know where it's going

but its conclusions may suggest that an organisation that uses analytics might be allergic to a 1st round trade up unless it's for a QB or for a player they are confident is elite
 

LSURavenFan

Practice Squad
Attempting one final mock before the draft.

I really think one of the ILB will be available for the Ravens. I have Philly taking one of them. I initially had NO taking the other but I’ve had a change of heart, with this being potentially Brees’ last ride, I think they go WR even after the Sanders signing, I’m thinking Aiyuk.

I’ve yet to decide on my Raven pick, but on the board would be Murray, Delpit, any RB, Gladney, Mims, Baun.

It would be fascinating to see the discussion on here if the board falls that way..
 
Any of you see this from Peter King?

“My bet is the Ravens might try to move up a few slots to steal Murray; he's the best pure linebacker in the draft, a sideline to sideline menace, and would be a godsend for defensive coordinator Wink Martindale to use as a chess piece,"

First off it would be bad enough for @Sami84 if we took Murray but to trade up to get him? OMG

We talk constantly that we rarely trade up in the first. The evaluation on Murray is all over the place. So many seem to think he’s the best ILB in the draft by a lot. Some here don’t want anything to do with him.
 

Believe Dat

Practice Squad
Murray has got undeniable juice and burst, but he’s more athlete than MLB at this point. I imagine coaches think they can take the talent and hit the scary high ceiling. He also probably has a better shot at success in a multiple scheme like we run.
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
exactly - he becomes a chess piece on your DL who's not coming off the field

he starts at Rush LB most likely but could also flex inside and play on the interior with someone like Jaylon outside him (and vice versa)

and thinking about the running game he's someone who comes in and immediately becomes physical enough to set the edge which was a huge problem last year - he's not a great technical run defender yet but he has all the tools and football iq to be great at it and he's already so effective on the edge - and has shown the processing ability to penetrate from the interior on running downs

If our evaluation of Ferguson was high enough that we liked him, I don't see why we wouldn't also like AJ Epenesa - outside of the 40 time, Epenesa has Ferguson beat on everything else and we still drafted Jaylon despite all that and playing lower competition
I’m very big on epenesa for the ravens. I feel like you can keep it super simple with a guy like that and just line him up against the weakest link on the OL and tell him go apeshit all day, change up the defense for the other ten defenders but epenesa should just batter whatever poor [profanity deleted] lines up across from him
 

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
Murray has got undeniable juice and burst, but he’s more athlete than MLB at this point. I imagine coaches think they can take the talent and hit the scary high ceiling. He also probably has a better shot at success in a multiple scheme like we run.
That’s the thing about players like Murray, people like us can see it plain as day, he’s got too many shortcomings at a not so valuable position so he’s too risky for round 1, but we don’t have defensive coaches in our ears telling us they can fix him.
 

Deebo813

Ravens Ring of Honor
Attempting one final mock before the draft.

I really think one of the ILB will be available for the Ravens. I have Philly taking one of them. I initially had NO taking the other but I’ve had a change of heart, with this being potentially Brees’ last ride, I think they go WR even after the Sanders signing, I’m thinking Aiyuk.

I’ve yet to decide on my Raven pick, but on the board would be Murray, Delpit, any RB, Gladney, Mims, Baun.

It would be fascinating to see the discussion on here if the board falls that way..
I could def see us going baun
 

D1City55

Veteran
I would legit be sick if we traded up for Murray. I think he's a solid player and if he's the pick at 28 then I would be fine since it sounds inevitable. Granted, I don't think Murray is worth the 1st and that's just how I feel. We do need an ILB and it's a big need, but I'll take a guy like Epenesa who can make an impact at a more premium position then Murray even if they were to have similar impact on the defense.

I'm with you guys in wanting Epenesa here. I don't know where to project him in the NFL as far as position goes but I don't see him having much trouble adjusting. If he plays the edge then that will be fantastic since we badly need an edge. I just question if the team would pass on Epenesa honestly, It just doesn't sound like something they would do for a guy like Murray.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Any of you see this from Peter King?

“My bet is the Ravens might try to move up a few slots to steal Murray; he's the best pure linebacker in the draft, a sideline to sideline menace, and would be a godsend for defensive coordinator Wink Martindale to use as a chess piece,"

First off it would be bad enough for @Sami84 if we took Murray but to trade up to get him? OMG

We talk constantly that we rarely trade up in the first. The evaluation on Murray is all over the place. So many seem to think he’s the best ILB in the draft by a lot. Some here don’t want anything to do with him.

I looked at his whole mock and it’s a garbage fire all over the place
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
More often than not, King is full of shit. His mocks in particular are always bad and don't make much sense.

A couple of years ago I thought he was good at what he did - I’ve found myself resenting his takes a lot more as time has gone on - I find him very out of touch with what’s going on in the league

But annoyingly he still gets incredible access to the teams and their draft rooms which makes some of his stuff absolute must reads
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
joe hortiz said that they have lots of 'needs' in their eyes which makes drafting for 1 or 2 specific needs completely pointless - it's why they go BPA almost religiously

in the lounge podcast he said drafting explicitly for need amounts to 'devaluing' the pick'

but it means that we're really free to be able to move up and down the board and accrue positive value at will and just acquire good players

i dont think we'll be looking to end up with 12 rookies like in 2018 but i could definitely see us finishing up with 10 prospects
yes, I saw the podcast, thought it was pretty well done.
 
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