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Signings, Cuts, Trades
- Thread starter RavensMania
- Start date
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I got sucked into the rumors too, but before that he was my favorite choice, after we picked him I just chose not to believe them
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
Plus, he wasn't alpha enough.
Who plays for the 6 games he misses due to injury next year?
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
The 2016 pre-draft was the beginning of the end for me on BR.com. It was the year I decided to call out all of the horrible draft analysis done on those boards.
The most common "guaranteed homerun picks" were to grab Hargreaves in the 1st, and Noah Spence on the 2nd. I remember people having heart attacks when we didn't trade up like 3 spots in the 2nd round to land Spence.
Question is would you have preferred DeForest Buckner over Stanley in a re-do?
Obvious second round misses include Michael Thomas and Derrick Henry, among others.
Also fun fact... we took Bronson Kaufusi (ouch) at #70. Another DE went at #69. That was Yannick Ngakoue.
2016 was a rough one for sure from a Ravens perspective. Michael Thomas is the one that got me. He was my #1 WR all throughout the process and for him to still be available at our 2nd pick... I was fuming that we didn't pick him. Day 2 as a whole was just rough with Correa and Kaufusi.
I definitely bit on Hargreaves. Didn't necessarily think he was ever going to be a Raven, but thought he'd be a damn good player for whoever got him. Missed that. Never saw it in Spence, though.
In hindsight, that was probably the best I've ever evaluated now that we have a few years of data. I think Hargreaves and Corey Coleman were pretty much the only 2 guys I was pretty high on that didn't make an impact. Just hurt more from the side of being a fan of the Ravens.
Believe Dat
Practice Squad
Facts on facts. Clowney at 17-18 mil is a steal. Even with missed games due to injury, and him never really turning into a star pass rusher, he is a top 10 type EDGE. And we are very much lacking at the position.
Sandtown
Pro Bowler
Adreme ask @JoeyFlex5 who will play in place of Clowney after he meets his inevitable fate when comes to missing games. Will Joey ever respond ? or will this be long wait out process while their power levels are over 9000. The only way to find out is to stay tune to the next episode of Dragon Ball Z !!!.
#Dontpaymenomind #Thisthestuffyousaywhenyouonlockdown
#Keepyourhandsclean
#Stayhome
#Ineedapizza
BloodRaven
MVP
Id be surprised if we sign Clowney, I think we look to the draft and post draft free agency to address our edge rush.
Inqui
Pro Bowler
I remember I bought into the media hype with Tunsil - I think it was the same with Sammy Watkins where I saw he was the consensus #1 and that made me more receptive to the good stuff he did.
Stanley's feet were amazing, and that's the stuff that's way harder to teach. And that made his "floor" higher in my eyes, not to mention Notre Dame had quietly been building itself an OL resume. I can understand people's concerns with his size to an extent, but as a wise man once said: those issues are nothing you can't fix by adding 12lb of quick-twitch muscle.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Bit of a stretch to just guarantee that happens lol. If you wanna avoid good players entirely due to injury risk then you can get on the slippery slope of “it could happen to anybody”. Hayden hurst had a perfect bill of health and then derailed his whole rookie season with foot surgery, Ronnie Stanley had a perfect bill of health and just had his first healthy season in 2019, jimmy smith in college as well.
like I get it, some players have been more prone to injury than others, but unless it’s an injury that you can stone cold guarantee will linger then you can’t write players off entirely, like this isn’t gurleys or ajayis knee we’re talking about, we’re talking about multiple fluke injuries that have been surgically repaired and as far as I’ve seen only one lingered later on and then never showed up again.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
While I agree you can't avoid injury concerns, you largely can in that price range.
You want me to pay $8-10M for a guy with that talent who may get hurt, so be it. The equivalent of getting Jimmy or Wolfe at the price point we got them at.
But we're talking near top of the market value here.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
I don't think he's anywhere close to a "steal" at that price. $12-13M a year would be a "steal".
If he's willing to "lower his price tag" to that range, it means nobody so far is interested in paying him that much money. If he had a $17-18M a year offer, he would have signed it already, since he's now lowered his price tag to that point.
He either doesn't have one, which is likely, or it doesn't contain the kind of guaranteed money he wants, which likely won't change.
And obviously there's no possible scenario where he and Judon are both Ravens, so we'd need to trade Judon first OR rescind the tag all together. And its likely that signing Clowney would wash out the comp pick for Judon anyway, since they'd be in similar price ranges.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
And our other option is a guy that even though he’s been consistently healthy, doesn’t produce very much and will get top of the market value anyway. We can overpay a proven average player top of the market value, or pay essentially the same to a guy who is elite at generating pressure on his own and an elite run defender as well, and take the risk of injury.
maybe I’m skewed because I think pretty little of judons ability on the field.
yeah i mean im not judon's biggest fan but i really think you're vastly overestimating clowney and underestimating judon...
we get caught seeing the highs of clowney and assuming that's what he's like all the time when tbh he's just as inconsistent in terms of taking games over as judon
raiders fans may well feel the same way you do about clowney about judon after his sack trick in 2018
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I put a lot less into sacks and a lot more into consistent pressure, and even more so pressure generated in a real 1v1 situation. Finishing with sacks is great but that is a stat that honestly means so little, because sacks don’t happen in a vacuum and there is so much that has to come together that is often out of that one players control, so clowneys low sack totals mean nothing to me when he is one of the most consistent pressure generators in the league, and he’s done it across the entire front from any position out of any formation, while also dominating the run game in the same fashion.
clowney is simply an animal who comes with injury concerns, the low sack totals imo has got to be the most overhyped story of the offseason.
Am posting an extract (the extract that relates to the ravens) from this athletic article: https://theathletic.com/1715455/202...every-nfl-teams-free-agency-moves-and-trades/
im posting it because it seems to demonstrate just how little some execs are watching film of other teams on a week in week out basis... To say that the Ravens might be down on Earl Thomas after year 1 completely ignores what he did for the backend of our defence, the backend of probably the best secondary in the game in 2019 - hard to imagine we wouldnt be thrilled about that but what do i know
also pretty telling that the same exec said Mark Andrews can't block - he's not known as a blocker and its not something we want him doing primarily but he clearly can and does block at a decent level - he's just not someone we use as a puller in the run-game but we absolutely used him as an in-line TE blocker frequently and with success - to say he cant block is not particularly fair given how he was used and how effectively he was used - and tbh id say its flat-out incorrect - he had only 7 snaps of pass blocking i think in 2019 but he was still a major factor in the running game but was used less frequently on those downs than hurst or boyle to 1) keep him fresh for passing downs in some cases and 2) to not over-stress his frame with all the injuries he was fighting through
this is where the work of vince newsome has gone historically underrated by fans of this franchise as the leader of the pro-personnel department for years (until recently when that and the college scouting branch seem to have come together under Hortiz and Kokinis) - and its probably why weve been better than other teams at acquiring late-career vets who can still offer incredible value at their price
Baltimore Ravens
Free agency had not yet officially begun and already the Ravens had agreed to acquire five-time Pro Bowl choice Calais Campbell from Jacksonville for a fifth-round pick. They had also agreed to terms with another durable veteran defensive lineman in Michael Brockers, a 2012 Rams first-round pick.
“This is what Baltimore does every year,” an exec said at the time. “They get older guys and their contracts look reasonable compared to the market because the players are older. Sometimes it works out. Sometimes it does not. I cannot imagine they are thrilled with Earl Thomas, so we will see how that goes with Calais. Who knows if Brockers actually signs.”
Brockers did not actually sign with the Ravens. Baltimore backed out of the deal in the absence of medical protocols that became impractical amid the COVID-19 pandemic. After moving on from Brockers, who returned to the Rams, the Ravens turned to Plan B, reaching an agreement with former Broncos defensive end Derek Wolfe. It was another classic Ravens move.
“Derek Wolfe will be a great addition to that defense,” an evaluator said. “You look at what (Matt) Judon does on the other side. That defense plays really fast and I think they have the ability to get the best out of players. Wolfe had seven sacks last year. What is he going to have this year? The value is great.”
The exec who questioned the Ravens’ pursuit of older players such as Thomas and Campbell tipped his cap to Baltimore for getting a second-round pick from Atlanta in the Hurst trade.
“Great move by Baltimore,” he said. “Hurst was their third tight end and they got a second-round pick for him. Mark Andrews can’t block, either, but he is a much better receiver than Hurst.”
im posting it because it seems to demonstrate just how little some execs are watching film of other teams on a week in week out basis... To say that the Ravens might be down on Earl Thomas after year 1 completely ignores what he did for the backend of our defence, the backend of probably the best secondary in the game in 2019 - hard to imagine we wouldnt be thrilled about that but what do i know
also pretty telling that the same exec said Mark Andrews can't block - he's not known as a blocker and its not something we want him doing primarily but he clearly can and does block at a decent level - he's just not someone we use as a puller in the run-game but we absolutely used him as an in-line TE blocker frequently and with success - to say he cant block is not particularly fair given how he was used and how effectively he was used - and tbh id say its flat-out incorrect - he had only 7 snaps of pass blocking i think in 2019 but he was still a major factor in the running game but was used less frequently on those downs than hurst or boyle to 1) keep him fresh for passing downs in some cases and 2) to not over-stress his frame with all the injuries he was fighting through
this is where the work of vince newsome has gone historically underrated by fans of this franchise as the leader of the pro-personnel department for years (until recently when that and the college scouting branch seem to have come together under Hortiz and Kokinis) - and its probably why weve been better than other teams at acquiring late-career vets who can still offer incredible value at their price
Baltimore Ravens
Free agency had not yet officially begun and already the Ravens had agreed to acquire five-time Pro Bowl choice Calais Campbell from Jacksonville for a fifth-round pick. They had also agreed to terms with another durable veteran defensive lineman in Michael Brockers, a 2012 Rams first-round pick.
“This is what Baltimore does every year,” an exec said at the time. “They get older guys and their contracts look reasonable compared to the market because the players are older. Sometimes it works out. Sometimes it does not. I cannot imagine they are thrilled with Earl Thomas, so we will see how that goes with Calais. Who knows if Brockers actually signs.”
Brockers did not actually sign with the Ravens. Baltimore backed out of the deal in the absence of medical protocols that became impractical amid the COVID-19 pandemic. After moving on from Brockers, who returned to the Rams, the Ravens turned to Plan B, reaching an agreement with former Broncos defensive end Derek Wolfe. It was another classic Ravens move.
“Derek Wolfe will be a great addition to that defense,” an evaluator said. “You look at what (Matt) Judon does on the other side. That defense plays really fast and I think they have the ability to get the best out of players. Wolfe had seven sacks last year. What is he going to have this year? The value is great.”
The exec who questioned the Ravens’ pursuit of older players such as Thomas and Campbell tipped his cap to Baltimore for getting a second-round pick from Atlanta in the Hurst trade.
“Great move by Baltimore,” he said. “Hurst was their third tight end and they got a second-round pick for him. Mark Andrews can’t block, either, but he is a much better receiver than Hurst.”
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
People think we're unhappy with Earl for two reasons:
1. He doesn't force a lot of turnovers, and really never has. He also played a lot more deep free safety in Seattle, and we play a split-safety look, which is different for him. Took him time to adjust.
2. Many fans blame mostly him for the debacle at home against Cleveland. Fans and ignorant media have a tough time praising a player who has one noticeably bad game.