JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Having perhaps the leagues best and deepest secondary isn’t a passing teams advantage by any means
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- Thread starter RavensMania
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I mean it depends how you measure success - we’re never going to be prolific stat compilers but both Harbs and EDC have specifically mentioned efficiency and harbs even name-checked DVOA as a stat
Probably worth point out that in 2019 we had the most efficient pass game in the league
that’s what they’re aiming to replicate - efficiency in the passing game
Goff never regressed as a passer - he’s literally not changed at all - defence caught up to what mcvay was doing that super bowl year and adjusted
ndub
Ravens Ring of Honor
Hmm... sounds quite familiar, doesn’t it?
not really
ndub
Ravens Ring of Honor
Ah but it does. What were the complaints about Lamar again? What were the variation in stats between this year and last?
im really confused about the point you're trying to make...
ndub
Ravens Ring of Honor
People are adjusting, Lamar is coming back down to Earth against solid defenses. This offense is getting figured out and the results are being shown
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
That’s football man. It’s our turn to adjust now. That’s why it’s so hard to repeat performances every year.
There is nothing to adjust to imo. yes lamar needs to improve, however our wrs cant get open, our passing concepts suck and our oline lost a HOF guard and a top 3 LT.. a college secondary would probably lock up our wrs. Its really a simple formula for us.
Now if we had a decent oline and a decent passing game and got locked up, then yes we have been figured out.
i was thinking today about OL and how poor the pass pro has been - and i suddenly had the horrifying thought of what it would have been like if Joe has been playing behind that OL - he would have been killed
we have to remember with Lamar that he makes the OL look so much better than they are (at least in pass pro... because let's given them the credit where it's due - they were a great run blocking unit) - for the unit to look bad in pass pro while Lamar was back there suggests there's major major problems with that element of the play
it makes it all the more important to fix it (however it is we're going to do it)
Yea i def agree. I feel like he slows down edge rushers and makes them hesitate alot. Kinda like guarding tyreke hill lol, i wouldnt know if i should run full speed or not cause at any time he can stop and turn around and any hesitation you make will get you killed
RL52TheGreatest
Ravens Ring of Honor
If we can fix the IOL then we should be much improved in pass pro. Seems like most of the time that Lamar gets pressured it ends up coming from the middle and he has nowhere to go in the pocket. This is one of the main problems we have when we play the Chiefs because Chris Jones absolutely KILLS us every time we play them and wreaks havoc on the inside.
it's that but also his ability to scramble and avoid pressure in the pocket can turn would-be sacks into positive plays
but you're right that it also just changes the way EDGE guys play - teams will crash the inside but might try and keep outside contain which obviously slows those guys on the edge a bit more
all these things help out the OL - so for them to still play poorly in pass pro is an issue - obviously it will help having our best pass protector back - Ronnie Stanley is the best pass blocking offensive lineman in the league - we didnt miss him so much in the running game but he's an unbelievable pass protector
this year we saw a lot of pressure from that RT spot - didn't matter if it was Tyre or Fluker but Lamar would face a ton of pressure from that side
we did also see pressure up the middle too of course
and obviously next year we'll have Ronnie Stanley back which will allow Orlando to go back to RT which will fix many of the pass pro issues on the outside
but yeah - especially in the playoffs and especially with the changes in NFL passing games to get the ball out quicker it's become even more crucial to create interior pressure and it seems like that's been our undoing the last 2 years in the playoffs - in 2019 Jeffrey Simmons and Jurrell Casey crushed the IOL and in 2020 it was the turn of that Bills DL
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Yup, its good stuff. I've read similar articles before. Its basically a two-high safety look and light in the box. It's why they'll probably never beat this version of the Ravens team, because we'll bludgeon them to death.
I just think you have to have really good personnel in order to do that, which is why a lot of teams can't replicate. Like with Winks' scheme, you basically just need good man corners. If you have that, we can create pressure with volume and force rushed throws. That's why some would argue pass rush isn't as important any more.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Well, for starters, I don't think Goff or Wentz have really regressed at all. I think Goff is the same QB he's been for years, they just can't run the ball like they used to. Wentz just has 3 defenders in his face on every play because their offensive line is pathetic and they have no receiving talent. Wentz will be an exceptional QB with the next team he plays on (assuming Philly moves on after this year), provided they don't make the same mistakes the Eagles did.
I'm just not seeing many ways Lamar can regress as a passer. I can see ways he doesn't improve, but I'm not seeing where he's all of the sudden going to become significantly worse. That'll be especially true if teams continue to sell out to stop the run.
The reality is...extending him now isn't going to crush the franchise, unless you hand him like a 10 year extension. He's got two years, at a minimum left, without an extension. A sharp decline as a passer isn't very likely in that short of a period of time, especially based off what we've seen so far. More likely if you see the decline it'll be 3,4,5 years from now, once his speed as a runner starts to decline and he becomes more of a pocket QB. So if you extend him now, you'll be on the back end of that deal when his skills potentially start to diminish.
I'm not really worried about how much its going to cost either. The point is you should actually try to align compensation with production, i.e. if you think he's going to be better when he's younger, you should pay him as better when he's younger. You wait 2 more years to extend him, you'll be handing a $40M, 4-5 year contract to a 27 year old QB who will almost certainly see diminishing running ability by 30. Not ideal if you ask me.
It doesn't kill a franchise to sign a guy early. It kills a franchise to have a descending player with a monsterous cap hit that you can't get out of.
Plus, remember, we didn't have to tank to get Lamar, so its not a guarantee we'd have to tank to get his replacement either.
drjohnnyfever
Pro Bowler
There were many times in the first 12 games where Lamar was scrambling out of protection into situations where he couldn't kill anyone. It diminished in games 8-12 and only happened a couple times in later games.
When he scrambled or rolled to his right, he would basically move outside of his linemen significantly enough that the defenders could simply disengage and pursue him toward the sideline narrowing any escape. He was out of the pocket, but was still protected as long as those O-linemen remained in front of him and to his right. And he also, generally, wasn't being pursued on his backside OR Ricard or a RB was still behind him to pick the block on that pursuit. So while he was moving out of the pocket, he still had protection. But as he continued to his right he'd put himself out of protection and into being pursued without protection to the sideline. He did it a few times in later games, but not as frequently. Point - - - he can't run into a position where he can't kill the DEF... with a run OR a pass.
Personally, I think whatever passing scheme they go with has to work Lamar's mobility into the equation. But that will require him continuing to develop the awareness of where he is on the field and where he remains protected. Sort of like what our WR's need to learn to do in finding or identifying soft spots in DEF's they face.