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Signings, Cuts, Trades
- Thread starter RavensMania
- Start date
Edgar
Ravens Ring of Honor
Totally agree. No way you should spend that much money on a receiver.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
I really don't have too much issue with high end receivers getting that kind of money. You can make a case it's getting pretty close to being the second most valuable position in the NFL.
Normally I'd be the guy saying that if you have high-level QB play you can pretty much make average receivers look really good, but we've also gotten to the point where teams realize if you put great talent next to great talent, you can literally won Lombardi's with it.
And in some ways, its just a matter of keeping the franchise QB happy. Like I don't think Mahomes or Rodgers are happy today, knowing they've lost high end receivers, and I imagine Josh Allen would be highly unhappy to see Diggs walk out the door and get replaced by a rookie, who also won't likely be a high draft pick.
Plus the argument is... very few of these guys actually cost $24M against the cap right now. They'll cost that much, or more, but in 2, 3, 4 years, when they'll take up less than 10% of the cap.
As of this post, there is only ONE receiver in the entire NFL with a cap hit > $20M in 2022, and that's Golladay. There's actually only five that are over $15M. Nelson Agholor is the #6 highest paid WR in terms of cap hit in 2022. They're backloading all of these deals. And yes, that means they'll probably cost $25-30M in three years, but in three years, what's the cap going to be? North of $250M I think.
with the massive amounts of receiver talent generated every year by the college game - hard to imagine it being worth it to ever have to pay that much money to a WR who isn't someone who changes the maths for the defence (like davante adams and tyreek) and those guys are going for around 30m/yr now lol and that's funny money
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
I mean evidence agrees with what you're saying in terms of having good receivers with a top QB wins super bowls. Only thing is, up until now even those top WRs weren't making 25m per year. So I guess the question becomes will putting top top top receivers at that price point next to top top QBs continue to win super bowls?
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
Right. Personally I'd just take the Steelers approach and make sure you never stop drafting that position no matter what
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
I revised my post after you responded, but it's all cap manipulation. All of those $25M/year guys aren't costing the team $25M in cap space this year. They're costing like half of that or sometimes even less.
They'll cost that a year or two down the road, when the cap continues to skyrocket.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Agree. Though my argument is that the only guys getting that money are those guys.
There's a pretty decent size gap, at least in terms of AAV, between the "studs" and like high end receivers.
There's nobody making between $21-26M right now in AAV. There's four guys making $26-30M (and even the $30M guys is sort of "fake money"), and then everybody else is $20M or less.
And I think the four guys making that much do, effectively, change the way teams have to defend them.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Yeah that's great and all, but the Steelers haven't been a dominant franchise with that approach either. They've struggled with drafting Olineman, linebackers (hilarious that Pittsburgh can't draft linebackers) and even secondary players for several years now. Sure they'll always be deep and quality at receiver, but that's just one position.
A lot of this is situational. What does your team need, what resources do you have to get it.
I've commented about this before. We're now in the middle of the transition where the Ravens will likely be spending most of their salary cap capital on offensive players, because we don't have a lot of high quality, young, defensive players who are up for extensions. Marlon already got paid. He's basically "it" in terms of homegrown talent that will require a significant financial investment for probably the next 3-4 years.
So if you're not paying your quality receiver when its time, what else are you doing? You need a receiver somewhere. You can go into the draft and get one (maybe), but then where are you spending the money? In FA on other positions? I'd rather keep my own and know what I'm getting.
If you came to me and said "we've gotta lose three high quality starters at various positions in order to pay Hollywood $22M a year", then I'll be all ears on a discussion to not pay him. But in a lot of cases, these teams aren't losing high end players at other spots to keep these guys. They're just losing a bunch of mid tier players at non-premium positions, and they like their chances of getting those players in the draft.
UPennChem
Hall of Famer
I see what you're saying.
that's probably the big thing with hollywood in terms of him getting paid - there's no one else really on the roster who looks to be someone who we'll need to pay the same year that we pay hollywood outside of lamar
in 2023 the only other big guys to pay potential free agents would be lamar and peters (and lamar's gonna get franchised if he doesnt sign a deal before then) - obviously that franchise tag potentially does change a lot because it's the entire cap hit in 1 year which massively reduces flexibility but i imagine the ravens will be ready for that if it comes
partly this is because the rest of hollywood's class has been a complete disappointment and mekari has already been paid as a udfa from that year
and in 2024 after hollywood's 5th year option, there's a few guys but no one who right now looks like we'll be paying a massive outlay to retain them (again outside of lamar if that situation is still unresolved and he plays on a 2nd year of the franchise tag)... it's the 2020 class (other than queen who id assume would have the 5th year option picked up) and not many of them figure to get huge deals unless someone like madubuike figures it out as a pass rusher and starts putting up pressure/sack numbers and then older guys looking at 3rd contracts like boyle, chuck and zeitler and obviously tucker too but those are unlikely to be massive deals either
so hollywood's kind of in a sweet spot where the ravens wont have any reason not to pay him unless his asking price is outrageous
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Yeah the only down side is that the franchise tag, at that point, may be too prohibitive for him, i.e. it could conceivably be like $25M+ for a WR at that point. And IF Lamar is actually serious about going through two years of tags, it wouldn't be available to him anyway.
So the downside in extension talks, to me, is that there's no real threat of us franchise tagging him, because we probably can't afford to and wouldn't want to. And so if you don't extend him prior to the 2024 season, he'll hit FA almost certainly. Then all bets are off.
to be clear - when referring to the tag i was talking only about lamar and not hollywood
and Golladay has a voidable year added to his deal.
you'll have to be a bit more specific lol
which one was he talking about? derek stingley?
gtalk12
Ravens Ring of Honor
Yes lol
allblackraven
Hall of Famer
gtalk12
Ravens Ring of Honor
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Right. I'm just saying the issue in negotiations is that the franchise tag isn't an option for Hollywood most likely, either because Lamar is the one being tagged or because the tag is too expensive for us and we don't value him at that level.
So basically you've got two years to get an extension, or he hits FA, and its a total guess whether he's back at all.