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Signings, Cuts, Trades

redrum52

redrum52

Hall of Famer
rmcjacket23 said:
So I actually think keeping him is kind of brilliant if you're Cleveland. I might what risk are they really taking?
Go through the scenarios:
If Watson gets suspended:
1. Baker plays well. There's no risk for a QB controversy, because of the guaranteed money they spent on Watson. Becomes a showcase for Baker, and he'll sign elsewhere next year, by which the Browns can get a substantial comp pick for him.
2. Baker plays like shit. Browns already not expecting to be competitive if they don't have Watson, and it just validates their decision to replace him. His market tanks in FA next year and he's forced to sign for cheap as a backup/bridge QB (aka Trubisky).
If Watson isn't suspended, he's the best backup QB in the league for a year. He can gripe and be as bad a teammate as he wants, but 31 other teams will see the same.
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Exactly. It's a win win minus the cap hit but no reason to release him for nothing.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
redrum52 said:
I mean the Vikings started this by giving the most mediocre of qbs the first fully guaranteed deals. I can't blame the Browns with the roster they've constructed going for it all.



I agree. Let Baker sit that year then since he wanted to be petty about the whole thing. I just find it hilarious this bum was quick to speak on Duke Johnsons situation and now look at him. Hypocritical fuck.
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Ehh, apples and oranges.
Cousins deals were basically three year deals, and his guaranteed money was on par with what other franchise QBs were getting. He's not as good as them, but the guaranteed money and length of the guarantees was frankly pretty standard. That's why nobody in the league really cared.

For context:
In terms of guaranteed money at signing, Watson is 2.3x the amount of the #2 most guaranteed money at signing. He dwarfs everybody.
Watson got $230M guaranteed at signing
Rodgers $101.5M, Allen $100.0M, Presott $95.0M, Wilson $70M, Mahomes $63.1M, Stafford $63M

In terms of practical guaranteed money (amount of money largely guaranteed based on contract terms, though not "fully" guaranteed), Watson is $80M more than the next highest person, which is Rodgers.
Watson has $230M fully guaranteed
Rodgers has $150.8M in practical guarantees, Allen at $150M, Mahomes at $141.5M, Stafford $130M, Prescott $126M, Wilson $107M

Like his contract is so wildly above what anybody else is getting, and wildly above guy's that have accomplished significantly more than him.

And we haven't even talked about the "optics" of doing this for a guy who's likely to get suspended.

So like, for me, its pretty simple... is Watson:
a) $79M better than Rodgers
b) $80M better than Allen
c) $88.5M better than Mahomes
d) $100M better than Stafford
 
BoredMarine13

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
JoeyFlex5 said:
I don’t think it’s Cleveland, it’s other teams, nobody wants bakers contract and owners/GMs are refusing to work with Cleveland because they blew up the qb market
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I've read Cleveland is unwilling to take on a significant portion of his contract. I cant blame other teams for balking on Mayfield if you gotta pay him nearly 20 mil
 
BoredMarine13

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
rmcjacket23 said:
So I actually think keeping him is kind of brilliant if you're Cleveland. I might what risk are they really taking?
Go through the scenarios:
If Watson gets suspended:
1. Baker plays well. There's no risk for a QB controversy, because of the guaranteed money they spent on Watson. Becomes a showcase for Baker, and he'll sign elsewhere next year, by which the Browns can get a substantial comp pick for him.
2. Baker plays like shit. Browns already not expecting to be competitive if they don't have Watson, and it just validates their decision to replace him. His market tanks in FA next year and he's forced to sign for cheap as a backup/bridge QB (aka Trubisky).
If Watson isn't suspended, he's the best backup QB in the league for a year. He can gripe and be as bad a teammate as he wants, but 31 other teams will see the same.
Click to expand...
The only reason to keep him is if your thinking Watson will be suspended. The latest reports and status of his civil cases would lead you to believe he wont be suspended in 2022, more likely 2023. It is not worth the risk of turning that locker room into a toxic environment. If Cleveland was smart they bite the bullet(take on some of his salary) and get what they can for him now.

Your also putting a lot of faith in:
1. Bakers maturity
2. Cleveland's ability to navigate a difficult situation
 
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RavensMania

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
rmcjacket23 said:
Ehh, apples and oranges.
Cousins deals were basically three year deals, and his guaranteed money was on par with what other franchise QBs were getting. He's not as good as them, but the guaranteed money and length of the guarantees was frankly pretty standard. That's why nobody in the league really cared.

For context:
In terms of guaranteed money at signing, Watson is 2.3x the amount of the #2 most guaranteed money at signing. He dwarfs everybody.
Watson got $230M guaranteed at signing
Rodgers $101.5M, Allen $100.0M, Presott $95.0M, Wilson $70M, Mahomes $63.1M, Stafford $63M

In terms of practical guaranteed money (amount of money largely guaranteed based on contract terms, though not "fully" guaranteed), Watson is $80M more than the next highest person, which is Rodgers.
Watson has $230M fully guaranteed
Rodgers has $150.8M in practical guarantees, Allen at $150M, Mahomes at $141.5M, Stafford $130M, Prescott $126M, Wilson $107M

Like his contract is so wildly above what anybody else is getting, and wildly above guy's that have accomplished significantly more than him.

And we haven't even talked about the "optics" of doing this for a guy who's likely to get suspended.

So like, for me, its pretty simple... is Watson:
a) $79M better than Rodgers
b) $80M better than Allen
c) $88.5M better than Mahomes
d) $100M better than Stafford
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Cousin signed a 3 yr 84m deal in March of 2018. It wasn't basically a 3 yr deal, it was a 3 year deal. This is a question, not an argument. You said that he was getting similar guarantees than other qbs, which I'm not arguing, but can you give specifics?
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
RavensMania said:
Cousin signed a 3 yr 84m deal in March of 2018. It wasn't basically a 3 yr deal, it was a 3 year deal. This is a question, not an argument. You said that he was getting similar guarantees than other qbs, which I'm not arguing, but can you give specifics?
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I said basically because he played a bunch of years under the tag and because he's signed multiple extensions since 2018. He did a 2 year extension at $66M, fully guaranteed, in March 2020, and he just did another 1 year, fully guaranteed extension, this offseason.
The point was to show that getting a fully guaranteed contract isn't earth shattering or ground breaking when its limited to 3 years (or less). It's not exactly risky from a franchise standpoint to do a 2-3 year guaranteed contract for a QB, when pretty much every franchise QB gets at least 2-3 years guaranteed on any contract.

When I look at Spotrac, it won't let me go back to 2018 without a premium membership, which obviously, I ain't paying for.
In 2019, Cousins was #2 in guaranteed money at signing, and #7 in practical guarantees. Goff, Wentz, Wilson, and Matt Ryan all had practical guarantees at the time of north of $100M, while Cousins was at $84M. Rodgers and Stafford were at 98 and 92M.
In 2020, when he signed an additional extension, he actually dropped all the way down to #13 in practical guaranteed money. Pretty much half the league at that point had signed a contract with more guaranteed money than him. Jimmy G, Alex Smith, Derek Carr, Tannehill, etc. Also was the year when Mahomes and Watson signed their mega deals. Had 6 QBs at over $100M in guaranteed money, 12 at over $70M

Like I understand when people say "Cousins started the trend", and they're not technically wrong. But the "trend" that Cousins started is very different than Watson's. Cousins basically looked around and said "OK, everybody is signing 4,5,6 year deals, with 2-3 years guaranteed. Why don't I just sign a 2-3 year deal that's fully guaranteed?". And the Vikings have obliged, likely because he's sort of that "fringe" franchise QB level and no team probably wants to give him the kind of commitment that others get.

Watson's contract basically has close to 3x the guaranteed money of the biggest contract Cousins signed, and its also fully guaranteed for five years. I could be wrong, but I've not seen any NFL team give 5 years of guarantees to any player.

Even Mahomes, who you would think would be the guy to get that deal, only got three years fully guaranteed at signing. Every other year is basically a series of roster bonuses.
 
RavensMania

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
rmcjacket23 said:
I said basically because he played a bunch of years under the tag and because he's signed multiple extensions since 2018. He did a 2 year extension at $66M, fully guaranteed, in March 2020, and he just did another 1 year, fully guaranteed extension, this offseason.
The point was to show that getting a fully guaranteed contract isn't earth shattering or ground breaking when its limited to 3 years (or less). It's not exactly risky from a franchise standpoint to do a 2-3 year guaranteed contract for a QB, when pretty much every franchise QB gets at least 2-3 years guaranteed on any contract.

When I look at Spotrac, it won't let me go back to 2018 without a premium membership, which obviously, I ain't paying for.
In 2019, Cousins was #2 in guaranteed money at signing, and #7 in practical guarantees. Goff, Wentz, Wilson, and Matt Ryan all had practical guarantees at the time of north of $100M, while Cousins was at $84M. Rodgers and Stafford were at 98 and 92M.
In 2020, when he signed an additional extension, he actually dropped all the way down to #13 in practical guaranteed money. Pretty much half the league at that point had signed a contract with more guaranteed money than him. Jimmy G, Alex Smith, Derek Carr, Tannehill, etc. Also was the year when Mahomes and Watson signed their mega deals. Had 6 QBs at over $100M in guaranteed money, 12 at over $70M

Like I understand when people say "Cousins started the trend", and they're not technically wrong. But the "trend" that Cousins started is very different than Watson's. Cousins basically looked around and said "OK, everybody is signing 4,5,6 year deals, with 2-3 years guaranteed. Why don't I just sign a 2-3 year deal that's fully guaranteed?". And the Vikings have obliged, likely because he's sort of that "fringe" franchise QB level and no team probably wants to give him the kind of commitment that others get.

Watson's contract basically has close to 3x the guaranteed money of the biggest contract Cousins signed, and its also fully guaranteed for five years. I could be wrong, but I've not seen any NFL team give 5 years of guarantees to any player.

Even Mahomes, who you would think would be the guy to get that deal, only got three years fully guaranteed at signing. Every other year is basically a series of roster bonuses.
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Thanks for clarifying.
 
RavensMania

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
UPennChem said:
Is Jimmy Smith at the minimum a good value for CB5? Does he even still have enough in him to do that?
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he was a healthy inactive when we were banged up at at the end of the season, so imo, I think he should retire and maybe be part of the coaching staff.
 
Davesta

Davesta

Ravens Ring of Honor
BoredMarine13 said:
Can we pull off Houston and Clowney? One year mercenary deals while Bowser and Ojabo get healthy….. This is my madden fantasy land signing …..it would be a lot of fun to watch. Also we could officially cut Ferg sooooooo win/win
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Houston, Clowney, and Bradberry.

Sign all 3! Make Defense Great Again!

Sorry Lamar.. just run around, kill clock, and get into Tucker Range please.
 
Davesta

Davesta

Ravens Ring of Honor
JoeyFlex5 said:
I don’t think it’s Cleveland, it’s other teams, nobody wants bakers contract and owners/GMs are refusing to work with Cleveland because they blew up the qb market
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I think the same thing. Browns open up a Pandora’s box and set a new precedent with this fully guarantee shit. Other owners are salty and refuse to bail them out. You know for sure Stevie B is hella salty
 
redrum52

redrum52

Hall of Famer
It was a smart move by the Browns knowing Lamar and Burrow are coming up. Get ahead of it and his contract will be a "steal" soon.
 
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