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Signings, Cuts, Trades

airconteka

airconteka

MVP
rmcjacket23 said:
But I don't think they're undervalued at all. In fact its pretty much impossible to be undervalued when the entire market place is all paying players in the same range.
They're not getting the inflation-driven prices everybody else gets because a) they're kicking less often, b) they made PATs harder, which gives teams more of a reason to go for 2PC (and there's still too many teams who don't go for it enough) and c) a lot of the longer type FGs are about as mathematically a risk as going for it, depending on yardage.
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Well I suppose it depends on how you calculate value, just because everyone pays the same amount doesn't mean a perfect market exists. A kicker accounts to 30% of scoring and they get paid like back up CBs. I guess you could argue that kickers take less risk and as such if performing well have longer careers and they are discounted for that reason.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
airconteka said:
Well I suppose it depends on how you calculate value, just because everyone pays the same amount doesn't mean a perfect market exists. A kicker accounts to 30% of scoring and they get paid like back up CBs. I guess you could argue that kickers take less risk and as such if performing well have longer careers and they are discounted for that reason.
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1. They're involved in far less plays than just about anybody else on the field.
2. The difference between a great kicker and an average kicker is a lot smaller than the difference between, say, a great QB and an average QB.
Like they account for a lot of the scoring, but they ALL account for a lot of the scoring. That's why their value is so low.

It doesn't have to mean that a perfect market exists, but it means that nobody, literally, has come up with a better justification to raise, or even lower, that market.
 
Tank

Tank

Hall of Famer
rmcjacket23 said:
I think statistically that would be hard to argue. 2x better means he's making like 2x amount of kicks, making double the high risk kicks, etc., which he's routinely not. He's high in all of those marks, and he's more consistently been at the top than just about anybody else, but 2x isn't really supportable logically or doesn't hold up to stats.
The difference between Tucker and some of the other really good kickers is usually 2, maybe 3, kicks per year. And that includes PATs as well.
The only thing that really separates him from others is the consistency for how long he's been doing it. There's a lot of guys that kick it well for 3-4 years and then have inconsistent years or fall off. He hasn't. That's what separates him.
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Volume, stats and percentages don't always tell the whole story.
I look at kickers much like QBs. How do they perform under pressure with the game on the line? How reliable are they in the big games/tournament? Definitely seems Tuck has the clutch gene.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Tank said:
Volume, stats and percentages don't always tell the whole story.
I look at kickers much like QBs. How do they perform under pressure with the game on the line? How reliable are they in the big games/tournament? Definitely seems Tuck has the clutch gene.
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And I agree in general. The problem is a) do you know how other kickers perform in the clutch by comparison and b) plenty of other kickers don't get nearly the number of opportunities to perform in big games, because those teams are more effective at scoring TDs than they are at kicking FGs.
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
airconteka said:
Exhibit A: Billy Cundiff
Exhibit B: Justin Tucker
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Right, and that's why Tucker would be making like 2x what Cundiff made, and that's why Cundiff isn't in the league anymore.

Doesn't mean you pay Tucker 2x the market value for even good kickers just because somebody who's out of the league entirely sucked.
 
Tank

Tank

Hall of Famer
rmcjacket23 said:
And I agree in general. The problem is a) do you know how other kickers perform in the clutch by comparison and b) plenty of other kickers don't get nearly the number of opportunities to perform in big games, because those teams are more effective at scoring TDs than they are at kicking FGs.
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How many other kickers can sing Ave Maria the way Justin can?

www.baltimoreravens.com

Extended Cut: Justin Tucker Sings 'Ave Maria'

The kicker performed at a Catholic Charities benefit with the Concert Artists of Baltimore earlier this month.
www.baltimoreravens.com www.baltimoreravens.com
 
rmcjacket23

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Tank said:
LMAO! Most men hate opera? I can listen to and appreciate any music, save gangsta rap.

Hard to believe that huge voice comes out of that little body.
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For the most part, I can too. But if I can't understand the lyrics, I'm out. That includes probably 80% of rap music, opera for sure, and pretty much any like punk rock that mostly involves just screaming into a mic and playing guitar too loud.
 
BoredMarine13

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
This Justin Tucker arguments screams late offseason desperation.
 
ndub

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
Opera music does absolutely nothing for me except give me a headache...
 
D

Deebo813

Hall of Famer
rmcjacket23 said:
You'll have to ask the people in the room who think he's 2x better than everybody else why that's being hashed out. I can't go down that trip into la la land with you.
All I've done is agree with NFL teams and the Ravens in how they assess value of kickers and of Tucker, which is not really the kind of thing fans are qualified to argue with in the first place.
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Fans qualified to argue with everything and have their opinion on it… just like youre qualified to be so dam argumentative with everything.. loosen up my g and stop taking everything so serious.
 
RavensMania

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Tank said:
LMAO! Most men hate opera? I can listen to and appreciate any music, save gangsta rap.

Hard to believe that huge voice comes out of that little body.
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As a former entertainer for many years, I can say I also have a very large selection of music and genres that I can listen to. Even if I can't understand the lyrics, but I do like to understand the music. That being said, even than , If I like the music I can live with it.
 
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