Signings, Cuts, Trades

[Adreme]

I mean, I don't think those guys are necessarily a fair comparison. We're talking pure superstar level there whereas OBJ is a really good player, but not at that level. I struggle to even include Tunsil in these discussions considering BOB blew the market up for several players in both directions, so can't necessarily call that a good barometer.

For what it's worth, I'm not completely doubting that an offer of a 1 would come in, but I still don't believe it's that cut and dry. There are a lot of things at play this year that aren't in play in typical years. If we get that offer, I'd jump on it. I'm just not completely sold on it happening.

I mean Tunsil was the 3rd best Tackle taken in his draft class. Adams is a Safety who cant cover. LTs are generally considered more valuable then Safeties which is why OBJ will almost certainly get 20m a year on open market and players who command that kind of salary also get multiple 1s traded for them.

 

[Adreme]

i mean honestly there's no actual evidence that the relationship even needs repairing in the first place let alone being irreparable

I assume the relationship is fine, but I also figure they are not going to be able to sign him to 20m a year money and if all they get is a 3rd round comp after next year someone screwed up in a MAJOR way.

 

[Simba]

I mean Tunsil was the 3rd best Tackle taken in his draft class. Adams is a Safety who cant cover. LTs are generally considered more valuable then Safeties which is why OBJ will almost certainly get 20m a year on open market and players who command that kind of salary also get multiple 1s traded for them.

Oh I have no doubts that he'll get paid but he's not on a superstar level. There's a difference in paying a guy that much AND giving up the picks. I already don't think Tunsil counts because of the BOB effect because no one else was making that trade. You can argue Adams can't cover but he's regarded as a superstar. Almost more of a pass rusher than a S in a weird way.

I think OBJ is a good player but we're overrating him heavily here if we're comparing him to these types of names.

 

[Adreme]

Oh I have no doubts that he'll get paid but he's not on a superstar level. There's a difference in paying a guy that much AND giving up the picks. I already don't think Tunsil counts because of the BOB effect because no one else was making that trade. You can argue Adams can't cover but he's regarded as a superstar. Almost more of a pass rusher than a S in a weird way.

I think OBJ is a good player but we're overrating him heavily here if we're comparing him to these types of names.

Adams is a superstar in his own mind, and by the NY media, but on the actual football field it does not show.

The trade for Tunsil was not great because he was nowhere near the player OBJ is and he was basically overpaying just to get a guy who can fill a void. That was not the worst trade possible for BOB, it was just dumb given that they traded a lot to also get a new WR when they already had a better one on the roster before giving him away for nothing (if he had simply let it be known Hopkins was on the market he could get 2 1s for him as well and suddenly the Tunsil trade looks better).

EVERY NFL GM knows OLine are the backbone of the team. There are probably at least 20 teams that would start OBJ at LT right now (and I am being conservative). So you have a more valuable player, at a historically more valued position and you want to argue his trade value is lower? That does not really add up.

 

[rossihunter2]

I mean Tunsil was the 3rd best Tackle taken in his draft class. Adams is a Safety who cant cover. LTs are generally considered more valuable then Safeties which is why OBJ will almost certainly get 20m a year on open market and players who command that kind of salary also get multiple 1s traded for them.

who's 2nd best? conklin???

tbf i wouldnt take the seahawks as a good example - they literally dont seem to value 1st round picks at all - they'll throw them at a random guy they kinda like - they'd be much better off just trading them for vets with what they've done with their 1sts over the last however many years

 

[rossihunter2]

I assume the relationship is fine, but I also figure they are not going to be able to sign him to 20m a year money and if all they get is a 3rd round comp after next year someone screwed up in a MAJOR way.

i mean if the tag isnt too high then i imagine we'd tag him

 

[Deebo813]

Oh I have no doubts that he'll get paid but he's not on a superstar level. There's a difference in paying a guy that much AND giving up the picks. I already don't think Tunsil counts because of the BOB effect because no one else was making that trade. You can argue Adams can't cover but he's regarded as a superstar. Almost more of a pass rusher than a S in a weird way.

I think OBJ is a good player but we're overrating him heavily here if we're comparing him to these types of names.

Its crazy that now people finally see adams for what he is lol.. been saying for a while now and its why i cant put him on the list of best Safties in the lg.

 

[rossihunter2]

Its crazy that now people finally see adams for what he is lol.. been saying for a while now and its why i cant put him on the list of best Safties in the lg.

i mean it depends how you wanna use a safety - you shouldnt really gloss over the fact that he had 9.5 sacks - dude was basically a specialist blitzer lol - and really good at it

now you might say that's not worth 2 1st round picks (and i'd agree with you) but he's clearly amazing at what he does

it's just not what you'd normally want from a safety

and im not sure most teams would give up 2 1sts for any safety let alone a safety who doesnt really play safety

 

[rmcjacket23]

i mean honestly there's no actual evidence that the relationship even needs repairing in the first place let alone being irreparable

There's nothing wrong with this relationship. Brown is making it known he's a LT because, when he hits FA, he wants to get signed and paid as a LT. Its a smart move on his part and his agents part. He knows the likelihood of being a Raven beyond 2021 is very small, and he knows he's going to spend the last year of his deal as a RT most likely. He just wants the league to know he can, and wants to, play LT.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I assume the relationship is fine, but I also figure they are not going to be able to sign him to 20m a year money and if all they get is a 3rd round comp after next year someone screwed up in a MAJOR way.

Why exactly would that be a major screw up? Again, we're trying to win football games right now. Orlando Brown helps us do that.

I'll say this as clear as I can... no GM in this league will be successful by trading away 100% of the players they don't plan to re-sign. Those GMs will get fired, and they will not win games.

If things go south next year, sure, trade him. If I think I've got a shot to win a Lombardi trophy, I'm trading FOR players, not trading AWAY players. That shot at a Lombardi is worth a hell of a lot more than 1-2 first round picks. You're 50/50 you're getting a good football player with those draft picks to begin with, and that only decreases the worse the pick is.

The most valuable thing in this league is a great player on a rookie deal. If I'm a contender, I'm sucking that bone dry before I even consider making a move to decrease that window.

As I said earlier... with all the examples you gave, there's also one common denominator... the team trading away the player wasn't very good the year they did it.

 

[Simba]

Adams is a superstar in his own mind, and by the NY media, but on the actual football field it does not show.

The trade for Tunsil was not great because he was nowhere near the player OBJ is and he was basically overpaying just to get a guy who can fill a void. That was not the worst trade possible for BOB, it was just dumb given that they traded a lot to also get a new WR when they already had a better one on the roster before giving him away for nothing (if he had simply let it be known Hopkins was on the market he could get 2 1s for him as well and suddenly the Tunsil trade looks better).

EVERY NFL GM knows OLine are the backbone of the team. There are probably at least 20 teams that would start OBJ at LT right now (and I am being conservative). So you have a more valuable player, at a historically more valued position and you want to argue his trade value is lower? That does not really add up.

Say what you want about Adams but he’s got the accolades to back it up in the form of a 1st team all pro and two 2nd team all pros.

Orlando Brown is a really good player but he is not on the level of the guys you’ve mentioned except Tunsil, and we know why he garnered what he did in return.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Adams is a superstar in his own mind, and by the NY media, but on the actual football field it does not show.

The trade for Tunsil was not great because he was nowhere near the player OBJ is and he was basically overpaying just to get a guy who can fill a void. That was not the worst trade possible for BOB, it was just dumb given that they traded a lot to also get a new WR when they already had a better one on the roster before giving him away for nothing (if he had simply let it be known Hopkins was on the market he could get 2 1s for him as well and suddenly the Tunsil trade looks better).

EVERY NFL GM knows OLine are the backbone of the team. There are probably at least 20 teams that would start OBJ at LT right now (and I am being conservative). So you have a more valuable player, at a historically more valued position and you want to argue his trade value is lower? That does not really add up.

Mostly because I think you're basing that off something that doesn't exist any more.

I DON'T think NFL teams consider Oline as the backbone of the team. I think NFL GM's have realized you can structure offenses to get the ball out quicker, which both negates a pass rush and negates the need for an elite pass blocking unit, and they've realized that offensive line play coming out of college is so poor that this notion they're going to build a like Cowboys 5 years ago level Oline just isn't realistic in this day in the NFL. I think offensive line is important, but I think if you look around the league, you're going to find a very mixed bag of good teams who both do and don't prioritize the offensive line, and much of it is dependent on what type of QB they have and what type of offense they run.

I don't think KC prioritizes offensive line. I know Seattle doesn't. I know the Rams don't. I don't think Buffalo does. I'd say the Ravens are in the middle in terms of how they prioritize it.
Yet Green Bay does. Indianapolis does. New Orleans does.

There's no universal truth in any regards to how winning teams construct Olines. I said it back in the Flacco-era, and its certainly true now. I don't think you need a great Oline to win SB's. I think you just can't have a bad one. It's basically like special teams. You don't have to dominate in it. You just can't suck at it. And I think that's how most teams view Oline play in 2021. Just don't suck at it.

As for what I think Brown's trade value could be, I'm indifferent. For starters, I don't think we trade him, nor do I think we should trade him. So for me, its a moot point.
As for what we could get for him, all the "comps" we are provided are either Tunsil, or crossing positions, and crossing position argument really won't hold up. No GM is going to say "well Brown is comparable to Adams in terms of how they arbitrarily "rank" in a position group", so I'll get up that price tag. It's unlikely to work that way in real life. Tunsil may be a decent comp, but that implies you'll get a dumb team like Houston to pay that price. Not impossible, but its not like every team in the league will bend over to give us whatever we want for him. That's also especially true when everybody in the league knows they can just wait less than a year and see this guy on the open market.

I would be shocked to hear of a multiple first round pick offer. I wouldn't be shocked to hear of a first round pick + maybe a sweetner or two offers.

 

[Deebo813]

Imo, if he wants to play LT trade his ass.. if we are eventually gonna pay him LT money or highest RT in lg, keep him

 

[UPennChem]

If the Saints cut Emmanuel Sanders and he's willing to come here on a relatively cheap contract, I think he would be a big upgrade over Snead and Boykin. Thoughts?

 

[rmcjacket23]

If the Saints cut Emmanuel Sanders and he's willing to come here on a relatively cheap contract, I think he would be a big upgrade over Snead and Boykin. Thoughts?

I'd be shooting higher if I'm going the FA route. I don't think he'd be that much better than Snead at this point.

 

[UPennChem]

I'd be shooting higher if I'm going the FA route. I don't think he'd be that much better than Snead at this point.

I would too! I just don't think we have the money. Sanders' production over his whole career has been better than Willie's. I'm am in no way saying Sanders is a number one. More like someone who can play the number 3 role well.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I would too! I just don't think we have the money. Sanders' production over his whole career has been better than Willie's. I'm am in no way saying Sanders is a number one. More like someone who can play the number 3 role well.

I don't think we have the money either. But I think Sanders would cost a couple million more than Snead, and I don't really want to pay that price. Snead has already been in this offense, is a much better blocker, etc.

 

[Simba]

If the Saints cut Emmanuel Sanders and he's willing to come here on a relatively cheap contract, I think he would be a big upgrade over Snead and Boykin. Thoughts?

I wouldn't mind it if the price is what I think it'd be. He's 33 and probably not going to get too much, and continues to put up WR2 numbers. Good veteran stop gap if you aren't in on the big guns and are willing to throw another dart in the first half of the draft.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I wouldn't mind it if the price is what I think it'd be. He's 33 and probably not going to get too much, and continues to put up WR2 numbers. Good veteran stop gap if you aren't in on the big guns and are willing to throw another dart in the first half of the draft.

I think he'll be looking for, and probably get, what he's due to make, which is like $6-8M a year. Maybe on the low end of that. I think we could get Snead back for half of that.

 

[Simba]

I think he'll be looking for, and probably get, what he's due to make, which is like $6-8M a year. Maybe on the low end of that. I think we could get Snead back for half of that.

I wouldn't anticipate he'll get that much at 34 years old heading into the season. And even if he does, it's not going to be much guaranteed and likely split over 2 years to keep the year 1 cap hit down. And I believe Sanders is significantly better than Snead as a receiver.