his draft stock is already pretty up - dont think tremaine edmunds's combine pushed him up the draft board much either - i thought he was a top 15 type player in that draft and he went 16th...
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2020 Edge Draft Thread
- Thread starter RavensMania
- Start date
his draft stock is already pretty up - dont think tremaine edmunds's combine pushed him up the draft board much either - i thought he was a top 15 type player in that draft and he went 16th...
Yea but it wasnt till after combine that people claimed he was better than roquan.. he was never better roquan imo
which one got drafted first though...
Tbh i dnt even remember
roquan did - i was being snarky lol
teams will adjust players within tiers but people wont (or wont in good draft rooms) jump up massively in terms of their grades based on their combine numbers
im just not sure that the comparison will work with chaisson - for a lot of people he is already EDGE 2 and a top 20 player and he's not going to ever be in the conversation for EDGE 1 so not sure how the combine could massively change his stock unless he bombs
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I don’t think The conversation was ever that edmunds was better, but that he had a higher ceiling.
and I’d agree and would still agree, edmunds is an absolute freak and physically that dude has the potential to be a once in a lifetime type of LB, based on what we’ve seen it looks like he’ll never reach anything close to his ceiling, but if we’re talking upside edmunds is clearly higher than Roquan.
I was just referring to chassion because i think he will have a great combine to raise his stock.. he looks fast af and is 6”5 240..
i mean he's going to absolute smash the combine - i just dont think his stock can get much higher than it already is
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
You can go from top 20 to top 10 or top 5 without going from edge 2 to edge 1, so I strongly disagree with this notion
i mean that im seeing him already being mocked in the top 20 and top 15 but there's a group of 10 players or so nailed on in the top 10-15 who are clearly a tier ahead of him as prospects and it would be bizarre if he got taken ahead of them
that's all i mean - if he goes in the top 10 then cool i was wrong but id be pretty shocked no matter how good his combine is
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
Well chaisson we know is gonna have teams drooling over his combine, and there could be players in the current top 10 who do the exact opposite.
plus, if clelin Ferrell can go 4th, chaisson can go first overall lol
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
A guy who seems to be losing steam in the media is aj epenesa, and he’s a guy I think has been pretty disrespected on these boards.
now I’d agree, the hype he had originally, ridiculous, he never should’ve been considered a top 10 prospect but up until probably December or so he was seen as that. But if he is going in the mid to late 20s not only is that value but it’s a steal. And if you’re talking about for the ravens, shit he’s the ultimate raven, football bloodlines which we tend to like, he’s never gonna be outmanned physically, he’s gonna stop the run at a high level, and he’s positionally versatile.
for posters here to say he shouldn’t go top 20, that’s fine, but to say you wouldn’t want him in Baltimore at 28 if possible I’d say is a pretty harsh and hyperbolic opinion. There is like a .1% chance that there could be any superior prospect for us.
there’s a lot of talk that he’s a 5tech or an interior rusher, and honestly I think that’s way overblown, he’s got the edge skill set, I thought it before and a recent watch reaffirmed my original thoughts. Sure he can stand his ground on the inside, sure he can produce there, but he’s an edge to me, who CAN move inside for packages.
his first step is downright ignored it seems, at 6’6” 280+ you aren’t gonna be no damn von Miller but you also don’t have to be, he fires off the ball faster than you would ever expect from an edge his size. He wins in so many ways, he is a bully from whistle to whistle and every second of his film features raw power being thrown around with great efficiency, no recklessness, no wasted motions, just making opposition look soft with every move. He has bend, he is able to lean at the arc of the rush with the best of em, being 6’6” 280+ his bend doesn’t look nearly as low or flexible as the standard 6’3” edge rusher but speaking relatively he absolutely has bend. Blockers can’t get hands on him due to the length, and when they do he has incredible power and can disengage anyway. When he crashes inside on his rush and slants across the B gap he looks like he’s literally crashing the whole line, with his power and length and the momentum he carries across the line in this situation he is just so disruptive, he really makes a mess of things in this situation. He absolutely has an edge skill set, and an elite one.
weaknesses I’ve seen, other than him not having elite quicks and speed, is that he can be a little bit tall at times when he’s really tested physically, when he gets hit with true double teams he gets stood up and pushed, but that’s nitpicking considering edges don’t typically take on 2 true offensive linemen solely dedicated to him for the entirety of a snap, I saw this happen a small handful of times and it’s a non concern for me because it’s such an obscure thing.
When you watch his film, you count A LOT of wins, just looking at whether or not he beats the man across from him before the ball is out, it almost feels like he’s got a 90% or higher win rate lol, feels like every snap he’s beating his blocker.
now I’d agree, the hype he had originally, ridiculous, he never should’ve been considered a top 10 prospect but up until probably December or so he was seen as that. But if he is going in the mid to late 20s not only is that value but it’s a steal. And if you’re talking about for the ravens, shit he’s the ultimate raven, football bloodlines which we tend to like, he’s never gonna be outmanned physically, he’s gonna stop the run at a high level, and he’s positionally versatile.
for posters here to say he shouldn’t go top 20, that’s fine, but to say you wouldn’t want him in Baltimore at 28 if possible I’d say is a pretty harsh and hyperbolic opinion. There is like a .1% chance that there could be any superior prospect for us.
there’s a lot of talk that he’s a 5tech or an interior rusher, and honestly I think that’s way overblown, he’s got the edge skill set, I thought it before and a recent watch reaffirmed my original thoughts. Sure he can stand his ground on the inside, sure he can produce there, but he’s an edge to me, who CAN move inside for packages.
his first step is downright ignored it seems, at 6’6” 280+ you aren’t gonna be no damn von Miller but you also don’t have to be, he fires off the ball faster than you would ever expect from an edge his size. He wins in so many ways, he is a bully from whistle to whistle and every second of his film features raw power being thrown around with great efficiency, no recklessness, no wasted motions, just making opposition look soft with every move. He has bend, he is able to lean at the arc of the rush with the best of em, being 6’6” 280+ his bend doesn’t look nearly as low or flexible as the standard 6’3” edge rusher but speaking relatively he absolutely has bend. Blockers can’t get hands on him due to the length, and when they do he has incredible power and can disengage anyway. When he crashes inside on his rush and slants across the B gap he looks like he’s literally crashing the whole line, with his power and length and the momentum he carries across the line in this situation he is just so disruptive, he really makes a mess of things in this situation. He absolutely has an edge skill set, and an elite one.
weaknesses I’ve seen, other than him not having elite quicks and speed, is that he can be a little bit tall at times when he’s really tested physically, when he gets hit with true double teams he gets stood up and pushed, but that’s nitpicking considering edges don’t typically take on 2 true offensive linemen solely dedicated to him for the entirety of a snap, I saw this happen a small handful of times and it’s a non concern for me because it’s such an obscure thing.
When you watch his film, you count A LOT of wins, just looking at whether or not he beats the man across from him before the ball is out, it almost feels like he’s got a 90% or higher win rate lol, feels like every snap he’s beating his blocker.
i understand that lots of people like Epenesa but I just don't see it - he's not great against the run despite the fact that he should be, he's probably not a true edge player on a 3-4 team and doesnt have the athleticism outside to be a threat around the corner against NFL tackles - he's got incredible strength and size but I much prefer him rushing inside but he's not been effective against the run outside or inside - he's got the physical traits to be good there true but he's not going to get on the field much if he can't do that - for me he's a 3T pass rusher with some ability to move up and down the line and who could develop into a 3 down type player but might not be to start - i really worry about his complete lack of burst though
I still have him as EDGE 5 and a mid-to-high 2nd round pick - i wouldnt be mad if the ravens took him at 28 because im aware that my board will not be how the ravens will necessarily see it but id probably feel a little disappointed
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I just respectfully disagree with a lot of that lol, I don’t see a complete lack of burst, I see an edge who is playing a complete role and isn’t tasked to just pin his ears back and go, but when he does just attack he has adequate get off, and he works around the edge well by setting it up with his length and strength and then flattening the edge with brute force, he wins his 1v1s way too often on the edge for me to think he can’t play there, he’s straight up dominant, he may have a bit of a finishing problem at the next level because his closing speed and change of direction is lacking, but as far as creating pressure and disruption I guess I’m just not seeing what you’re seeing, I see a guy who consistently embarrasses the man assigned to block him. And I also don’t see the 3tech or 5tech he’s been assigned and it feels a whole lot like he’s being pigeonholed due to his physical stature
the reason i say 3 tech is because that's where ive seen my favourite snaps from him - rushing from the inside and tbh even rushing over the center at 1t/0t kind of alignment (obviously that's passing downs only)
i purposefully went and watched the USC tape a few times because he was up against austin jackson and had 2.5 sacks and he was great but i didnt see him really consistently show me a threat outside and his threat came from as you say getting into the B gap and i think that's partly why people would call him a 3-4 DE
i think he's a guy who can play across the DL and i certainly think he's got the upside to become a really good edge setter in the running game but i see his upside as a pass rusher predominantly being on the inside here as part of a rush package in that mcphee/ZDS type role
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I for one don’t see that as a weakness being able to move in and out, but I also feel you’re underrating his edge ability, I see him dominate tackles consistently
i just always find myself back at the minnesota tape in that 2 minute drill and he looks like a different player and athlete when inside
you're probably right that im underestimating him as a pure edge threat - i think his style of rush kind of lulls me because he sometimes can be so ineffective - ultimately i think he's probably got the highest floor of any of the edge guys in the class and he could become a consistent 10 sack/yr type guy
the thing ive probably underrated about him that i need to go back and look at is his get-off though
as i said either above or in one of the other threads here recently - i wouldnt be mad if we took aj epenesa at 28 but id probably have preferred someone else
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I get what you’re saying but I also know in that Minnesota game he was beating the shit out of the OT off the edge as well lol.
like I said he isn’t always finishing off the edge but he wins a lot, and I’ve recently changed my methods on scouting edge rushers, and I place a lot more weight on beating your blocker and a lot less weight on what happens after, and epenesa seems to make light work of his blockers so often no matter where he’s lined up,
that would be why id admit he has a pretty high floor
Willbacker
Ravens Ring of Honor
It depends on what type of edge player you're talking about but he most definitely can rush from the 7 tech spot but its hand in the dirt all the way and I'm talking extremely rare pass coverage. He's not a SAM or Will. Imo he's definitely a 3 down player that can play anywhere on the line depending on the situation and should immediately start over Wormley. He's a Suggs or a Rob Burnett/Mike McCrary if you remember them. I know you've been pining for a passrusher on the inside and Espenesa fits the bill. I really don't see him getting past the Patriots or the Seahawks but stranger things have happened