2020 Edge Draft Thread

[rossihunter2]

In terms of not having many rush moves against Cinci, it seemed like his lower body is pretty weak. He'd try to dip and when he'd get under the pad level of the tackle he was pushed into the ground or bent completely over. I agree though, he has some tools that can be put to use in the NFL

yeah i agree with that - but if you watch his hands he doesnt use them at all when he gets into that sort of situation - its odd because he counters and disengages and fights really well in the running game but doesnt apply those same principles against the pass

 

[Jacquouille]

hope you will be more active this offseason.

Prob will be as Draft season intensify. Just didn't enjoy the inseason overreaction threads anymore but offseason is still my kind of stuff.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Seems Kenneth Murray is beginning to lose a LITTLE bit of steam as the favorite mock raven, watched 3 YouTube mocks this morning all uploaded in the last 3 days, all 3 had us taking Terrell Lewis.

and I HATE that. I’d much prefer Kenneth Murray.

 

[rossihunter2]

Seems Kenneth Murray is beginning to lose a LITTLE bit of steam as the favorite mock raven, watched 3 YouTube mocks this morning all uploaded in the last 3 days, all 3 had us taking Terrell Lewis.

and I HATE that. I’d much prefer Kenneth Murray.

ive got a late 1st grade on Lewis but that doesnt take into account his injury history - and you have to think that pushes him down the board a bit

but in terms of these mocks - its just people seeing its the ravens and picking the bama guy or the oklahoma guy...

 

[JoeyFlex5]

ive got a late 1st grade on Lewis but that doesnt take into account his injury history - and you have to think that pushes him down the board a bit

but in terms of these mocks - its just people seeing its the ravens and picking the bama guy or the oklahoma guy...

Yep. To be real I’ve done minimal film study on Terrell Lewis, it’s hard for me to keep watching film on prospects if I’m not seeing much from the start, and I really didn’t see much from him in 1 or maybe 2 games and I stopped watching. He wasn’t getting home, he wasn’t particularly exciting, he wasn’t doing much to break free, he had a pretty nice first step and some violent hands and long arms, but he wasn’t doing shit with any of it

 

[RavensMania]

ive got a late 1st grade on Lewis but that doesnt take into account his injury history - and you have to think that pushes him down the board a bit

but in terms of these mocks - its just people seeing its the ravens and picking the bama guy or the oklahoma guy...

Lewis being available in the late 1st round is due to his injury history. He could very well go higher if teams don't take that into account. He has some serious talent.

 

[Grim]

Did you know he was playing with a high ankle sprain for the second half of the season, including Georgia? He hurt it in the Auburn game, missed I think half and then missed LSU and I believe South Carolina. Georgia would have been his first game back.

Yea, he is a guy that really grows on you every time you watch him. Love how he holds up on the edge. I don't have confidence in a lot of the OLB prospects in that regard. A lot that are getting a ton more run too. I haven't seen him inside anyones top 50. I really doubt a guy like that makes it to our second round pick.

He might be down a little for some people because of a broken wrist in 2018 but honestly he’s well inside my top 50 lol

Was an odd process for me getting to him because I wasn’t blown away during senior bowl practices but he showed a few things in the 1v1s that put him on my list and I’d watched a load of edge guys and thought I was getting to the dregs where I was deciding where I would grade guys between 6th round and udfa grades and then up pops greenard and it was a breath of fresh air

I think Greenard for me is solidly tied for second behind Young with Gross-Matos. I think both are exceptionally talented and I would be OK with taking either of them honestly. They both have elements to their game that I think would translate very well to the NFL.

Seems Kenneth Murray is beginning to lose a LITTLE bit of steam as the favorite mock raven, watched 3 YouTube mocks this morning all uploaded in the last 3 days, all 3 had us taking Terrell Lewis.

and I HATE that. I’d much prefer Kenneth Murray.

I wouldn’t be thrilled with Lewis at our pick due to the injuries. I feel like he would be another injury risk in the NFL.

Lewis being available in the late 1st round is due to his injury history. He could very well go higher if teams don't take that into account. He has some serious talent.

That’s true regarding his talent but he reminds me a lot of Carl Lawson drafted by CIN in the third. He was great talent but had series of injuries and continued to have them at the pro level. That just has to drop a guy for me regardless of the talent when it’s a recurring issue.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Gross matos has moved up to one of my favorites, like right behind Neville gallimore and above jaelen raegor.

 

[Grim]

Gross matos has moved up to one of my favorites, like right behind Neville gallimore and above jaelen raegor.

I like him a lot. He’s really talented and I think he’ll be second off the board at edge after Taylor and could be top 15

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I like him a lot. He’s really talented and I think he’ll be second off the board at edge after Taylor and could be top 15

Taylor? You mean young?

and yeah, I’m worried he goes really high, some rate him very high and some think he’s extremely overrated, there doesn’t seem to be much consensus on him. It took me a while to get on his wagon but man the way he flies around with so much speed and physical domination and pursuit and motor etc. that dude is just a football player straight up, he is not the best edge rusher, but he’s one of the best football players on the defensive side in this class.

when he’s young and still raw, he’s gonna get some effort sacks, he’s gonna get some pure speed sacks, but most importantly he’s always gonna be on the field and always make an impact, the way he lives in the backfield against the run and closes in like a goddamn homing missile on ball carriers is awesome. He reminds me A LOT of jadeveon clowney. He would be that 3 down edge we’ve always needed.

 

[rossihunter2]

Taylor? You mean young?

and yeah, I’m worried he goes really high, some rate him very high and some think he’s extremely overrated, there doesn’t seem to be much consensus on him. It took me a while to get on his wagon but man the way he flies around with so much speed and physical domination and pursuit and motor etc. that dude is just a football player straight up, he is not the best edge rusher, but he’s one of the best football players on the defensive side in this class.

when he’s young and still raw, he’s gonna get some effort sacks, he’s gonna get some pure speed sacks, but most importantly he’s always gonna be on the field and always make an impact, the way he lives in the backfield against the run and closes in like a goddamn homing missile on ball carriers is awesome. He reminds me A LOT of jadeveon clowney. He would be that 3 down edge we’ve always needed.

This year is probably the year I’ve spent the most time watching and studying how all these DL and EDGE guys play the run and it’s been eye opening in my grading process and how I feel about a lot of the prospects

 

[Grim]

Taylor? You mean young?

and yeah, I’m worried he goes really high, some rate him very high and some think he’s extremely overrated, there doesn’t seem to be much consensus on him. It took me a while to get on his wagon but man the way he flies around with so much speed and physical domination and pursuit and motor etc. that dude is just a football player straight up, he is not the best edge rusher, but he’s one of the best football players on the defensive side in this class.

when he’s young and still raw, he’s gonna get some effort sacks, he’s gonna get some pure speed sacks, but most importantly he’s always gonna be on the field and always make an impact, the way he lives in the backfield against the run and closes in like a goddamn homing missile on ball carriers is awesome. He reminds me A LOT of jadeveon clowney. He would be that 3 down edge we’ve always needed.

Yeah Young sorry lol. Not sure why I keep thinking Taylor. Anyway I agree on Gross-Matos in many ways and what’s good is I think he can be even better. I’m not getting my hopes up because I think he’ll end up going top 15 but I think he’d be great here.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Yeah Young sorry lol. Not sure why I keep thinking Taylor. Anyway I agree on Gross-Matos in many ways and what’s good is I think he can be even better. I’m not getting my hopes up because I think he’ll end up going top 15 but I think he’d be great here.

Fwiw pff had him not in the first round in their latest mock, and they have people in nfl circles and had people at the senior bowl making rounds with scouts, they were also the main ones hyping guys like LJ collier as first rounders and I saw no other outlets rating him that highly and then he ends up going in 1.

so at this rate, maybe pff has heard some down talk on him. Also, somewhat unrelated, in the same mock Denzel mims went in 1 to the bills, first I had seen that.

 

[rossihunter2]

Fwiw pff had him not in the first round in their latest mock, and they have people in nfl circles and had people at the senior bowl making rounds with scouts, they were also the main ones hyping guys like LJ collier as first rounders and I saw no other outlets rating him that highly and then he ends up going in 1.

so at this rate, maybe pff has heard some down talk on him. Also, somewhat unrelated, in the same mock Denzel mims went in 1 to the bills, first I had seen that.

PFF does interesting things but they are also often completely methodically different to everything else going on in the business - the way they analyse and grade + the way they watch tape is just different to everyone else in the media - so it means that they're ahead of the game on some prospects and completely out of whack on others

btw completely unrelated - have you had a chance to watch any jonathan greenard yet?

 

[rossihunter2]

yet another phenomenal video @Edgar


you make a good observation about greenard and him jumping on that swim move and how he loses some momentum there - i wonder if its partly an intentional attempt to do something similar to what aaron donald does sometimes (i think he might even have created it) but he forces the weight of the OL to move one way and then uses a jump move with a swim to get him past the other shoulder - normally donald does it with a bull rush and then a jump move (what he calls a power pop) but i see especially on the first clip of the jump swim that you showed that greenard fakes outside to get the OT leaning that way and i wonder if he's attempting to use the jump to get him in the gap quicker - obviously he's not executing it particularly well but just wondered if that was maybe why he was leaving the ground - it does mean that if the tackle (or OL in general) get hands on after you leave your feet that your momentum is slow but it also might get you into the gap quicker - i bring it up because its like clockwork that he leaves the ground as he brings his arm over the top

just a thought and it could be completely irrelevant to greenard's rush here - either way the execution should/could be better

 

[Ravensnation5220]

Gross matos has moved up to one of my favorites, like right behind Neville gallimore and above jaelen raegor.

Always been a Matos guy dating back to last year. I just dont think he falls to 28

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Always been a Matos guy dating back to last year. I just dont think he falls to 28

I was too, but I soured at some point, and then got back on his wagon, I stopped worrying about what he doesn’t do well right now, and started seeing how goddamn awesome he is at certain things and how that will be valuable in the nfl and then he has traits that could push him to legit von miller status, it’s unlikely but possible.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Zach Baun is a guy I’m a little torn on.

on one hand, he looks like a truly talented and very explosive OLB who both play off ball and go 2 point from out wide, and can blitz any gap on the line on any given play at an extremely effective rate, given that he’s a natural edge rusher with hand skills and all, who just happens to move athletically like a prototype modern LB

on the other hand, he seems extremely undersized and underpowered for the position, and is rather stiff hipped at the arc, and as an off ball LB his East and west game is pretty unproven and we don’t know how well he’s gonna flow through traffic and take angles at the next level, nor have we seen enough of his coverage game.

also we have had disastrous results with these tweener edge/LB guys. Correa and bowser have proven to be some extremely rough picks. And with Correa doing fairly well in Tennessee and bowser flashing some nice stuff frequently, I wonder whether coaching is the problem.

 

[Edgar]

@rossihunter2
Thanks so much. It means a lot.
Thanks for turning me on to him. I see him as a nice fit. I really didn't catch how intuitive he is until very recently, particularly against the run, I see him as very strong. He absolutely does things as far as play recognition the way that Sizzle did....occasionally to a fault.

As a rusher he is relentless and I think he will only get better. The hop as he swims to me is odd and he does it most every time but not every time which tells me it could probably be coached out of him. His outside stuff is more effective to set up the inside stuff at this point but you can see him working. Another thing Id like to see improved is his ability to dip or at least clear hands better when he gets a step outside.

Probably unfair to say this but id say he's ahead of Ferguson overall and if either of the two things above were better, he'd probably go top 20. I have pretty good faith that he can improve in those two areas specifically and just maybe its to our benefit and we'll find ourselves with a great prospect.

Have you checked out his running mate?...Zuniga? heavy hands and physical. probably going to check him a little more shortly.
Thanks again

 

[rossihunter2]

@rossihunter2
Thanks so much. It means a lot.
Thanks for turning me on to him. I see him as a nice fit. I really didn't catch how intuitive he is until very recently, particularly against the run, I see him as very strong. He absolutely does things as far as play recognition the way that Sizzle did....occasionally to a fault.

As a rusher he is relentless and I think he will only get better. The hop as he swims to me is odd and he does it most every time but not every time which tells me it could probably be coached out of him. His outside stuff is more effective to set up the inside stuff at this point but you can see him working. Another thing Id like to see improved is his ability to dip or at least clear hands better when he gets a step outside.

Probably unfair to say this but id say he's ahead of Ferguson overall and if either of the two things above were better, he'd probably go top 20. I have pretty good faith that he can improve in those two areas specifically and just maybe its to our benefit and we'll find ourselves with a great prospect.

Have you checked out his running mate?...Zuniga? heavy hands and physical. probably going to check him a little more shortly.
Thanks again

I actually found greenard because I was studying Zuniga - powerful dude who enjoys taking on pulling blockers - probably does his best work in the run game - not very flexible nor overly athletic probably better suited as a flexible DL in a 4-3 front - sometimes just looks generally unaware of what’s going on around him

That’s what partly made me pay attention to greenard because his get off was comparatively much faster almost on a snap-to-snap basis

Zuniga I think has got some nice tools to develop but not a great outside pass rusher for me

And I agree about greenard vs Ferguson - I liked Ferguson coming out but there’s absolutely no doubt greenard is ahead of him developmentally and would probably remain ahead of ferguson

I’d need to do some more study to see if his bend is improvable or not - but he definitely does struggle to flatten sometimes when running the outside ark - better hand usage in those situations will definitely help - when winning outside it’s often by using his short-area burst and some hesitation or a fake before bursting past the outside shoulder - but it’s promising to me explosion-wise that he can sometimes win just purely through get-off

But it’s not a chore doing study on him so i look forward to going back to his tape to examine some of these things