2020 Edge Draft Thread

[rossihunter2]

Zach Baun is a guy I’m a little torn on.

on one hand, he looks like a truly talented and very explosive OLB who both play off ball and go 2 point from out wide, and can blitz any gap on the line on any given play at an extremely effective rate, given that he’s a natural edge rusher with hand skills and all, who just happens to move athletically like a prototype modern LB

on the other hand, he seems extremely undersized and underpowered for the position, and is rather stiff hipped at the arc, and as an off ball LB his East and west game is pretty unproven and we don’t know how well he’s gonna flow through traffic and take angles at the next level, nor have we seen enough of his coverage game.

also we have had disastrous results with these tweener edge/LB guys. Correa and bowser have proven to be some extremely rough picks. And with Correa doing fairly well in Tennessee and bowser flashing some nice stuff frequently, I wonder whether coaching is the problem.

Not sure it’s a coaching problem because he was here with dean pees and is now succeeding with dean pees too

He did look better the preseason we traded him but we preferred Timmy and in hindsight that was a bad decision

My guess is he was hindered developmentally by the partial move to ILB and then wasn’t strong enough in the run to win snaps once he moved back to the edge

Might be more of a schematic issue

 

[allblackraven]

Zach Baun is a guy I’m a little torn on.

on one hand, he looks like a truly talented and very explosive OLB who both play off ball and go 2 point from out wide, and can blitz any gap on the line on any given play at an extremely effective rate, given that he’s a natural edge rusher with hand skills and all, who just happens to move athletically like a prototype modern LB

on the other hand, he seems extremely undersized and underpowered for the position, and is rather stiff hipped at the arc, and as an off ball LB his East and west game is pretty unproven and we don’t know how well he’s gonna flow through traffic and take angles at the next level, nor have we seen enough of his coverage game.

also we have had disastrous results with these tweener edge/LB guys. Correa and bowser have proven to be some extremely rough picks. And with Correa doing fairly well in Tennessee and bowser flashing some nice stuff frequently, I wonder whether coaching is the problem.

I don't think it has anything to do with coaching. If hey can't get any semblance of consistent threat off the edge after 3 years, It's all on players, including the players who do fuck all with penetration and pressure from the inside, making it near impossible for a lesser edge talent to do anything useful. ZDS wasn't coached by Packers in a single training camp to do what he did this year. Judon is a product of Ravens coaching, if he had DL help like ZDS, he'd be constantly in double digit sack numbers.

 

[Jacquouille]

Ok so Greenard is pretty cool. His hand strength and overall power is below average and he's not an athletic marvel but the rest is interesting. I like that he has a go to move and some counters, that he plays with a lot of "brain over brawls" mentality and his agility/twitch is definitely a huge positive. I'd be really cool with him as a Round 3 choice, and I could be OK with a Round 2 pick on him. Don't see him as an instant contributor but he could follow the Judon curve where he rotates the first season then rounds out his overall game as an OLB and becomes a smart, instinctive player that will be able to do everything well at the position and be an instrumental pieces to a pass rush comitee (although never a wrecking crew type of pass rusher).

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Zach Baun has grown on me. I don’t think I have him enough credit for a lot of things, it had been a while since I watched his film, and I didn’t recall him being a few things:

1. Much better pass rusher than I recall. I knew he was a solid rusher but I always thought he looked more like an OLB than an edge, he could be either or, he’s really impressive off the edge

2. Much better run defender than I remembered. He is surprisingly decent at holding the edge, he’s VERY disciplined and patient and does a great job at staying home as the play develops so to not leave openings, and my god is he slippery when he locates that’s ball carrier, he is a magician at slipping between 2 blockers leaving the smallest of gaps and catching ball carriers in the backfield

3. he’s much more explosive than I remember

4. but he is pretty stiff as I recalled, he has flashed some good hips and ankles but it’s very inconsistent, and he’s very prone to falling down when he shows his flex

he’s a guy I think will rise and may see himself go before our pick, but if not he’s a guy who’s creeped very high on my shortlist for the ravens

 

[rossihunter2]

Zach Baun has grown on me. I don’t think I have him enough credit for a lot of things, it had been a while since I watched his film, and I didn’t recall him being a few things:

1. Much better pass rusher than I recall. I knew he was a solid rusher but I always thought he looked more like an OLB than an edge, he could be either or, he’s really impressive off the edge

2. Much better run defender than I remembered. He is surprisingly decent at holding the edge, he’s VERY disciplined and patient and does a great job at staying home as the play develops so to not leave openings, and my god is he slippery when he locates that’s ball carrier, he is a magician at slipping between 2 blockers leaving the smallest of gaps and catching ball carriers in the backfield

3. he’s much more explosive than I remember

4. but he is pretty stiff as I recalled, he has flashed some good hips and ankles but it’s very inconsistent, and he’s very prone to falling down when he shows his flex

he’s a guy I think will rise and may see himself go before our pick, but if not he’s a guy who’s creeped very high on my shortlist for the ravens

i think he's a pretty great prospect but i dont think he's a great ravens prospect necessarily given where we'd likely have to take him

 

[JoeyFlex5]

i think he's a pretty great prospect but i dont think he's a great ravens prospect necessarily given where we'd likely have to take him

He’s a guy that like I said is probably gonna move up boards and I think it’s a strong possibility that he isn’t even there at 28, the thing I like about Baun is he can solve 2 problems, one he brings speed and sound contain to both our edge and LB corps and could go a long way in containing outside runs, and two he can bring a lot of pass rush that we desperately lack.

I think he would be a day one upgrade over Judon at edge and a clear upgrade over any OLB we have

 

[Edgar]

Baun is taking reps at ILB apparently. I watched two of his games last night and he is great off the edge. I think I really like Baun at SAM

 

[rossihunter2]

Baun is taking reps at ILB apparently. I watched two of his games last night and he is great off the edge. I think I really like Baun at SAM

i prefer him off the edge but he's been pretty explicit that he himself thinks he's going to be an off-ball linebacker in the NFL so has been training and practicing accordingly

 

[JoeyFlex5]

i prefer him off the edge but he's been pretty explicit that he himself thinks he's going to be an off-ball linebacker in the NFL so has been training and practicing accordingly

I like him at edge too, makes me pretty annoyed. He’s underweight but not terribly underweight, and his absolute best asset is being slippery as hell and getting into the backfield with the vision and tackling ability to finish consistently, that’s not an off ball trait the way he does it, he slips through laterally, not vertically.

it pisses me off that bowser is being used exclusively as an edge and Zach Baun is entering as a true LB... it’s like literally the opposite needs to happen lol

 

[Edgar]

@JoeyFlex5 @rossihunter2
He only weighs 235-240. You'd like him to be bigger than that outside I reckon. Perhaps that sort of hybrid type is what we need in todays NFL (assuming he can play ILB). I mean, he is a bona fide threat off the edge. Who is to say that he isn't both? An actual edge guy on obvious passing downs (rather than how we usually use our ILB to blitz or interior standing at the line)

 

[Charm City]

@JoeyFlex5 @rossihunter2
He only weighs 235-240. You'd like him to be bigger than that outside I reckon. Perhaps that sort of hybrid type is what we need in todays NFL (assuming he can play ILB). I mean, he is a bona fide threat off the edge. Who is to say that he isn't both? An actual edge guy on obvious passing downs (rather than how we usually use our ILB to blitz or interior standing at the line)

Seeing as how we play dime a majority of the snaps, a LB corps of Baun, ILB (Fort, Bynes again? Schobert?), and Bowser would be pretty flexible, fast, and deceptive.

 

[allblackraven]

Seeing as how we play dime a majority of the snaps, a LB corps of Baun, ILB (Fort, Bynes again? Schobert?), and Bowser would be pretty flexible, fast, and deceptive.

Yet, none of them is a pass rushing threat.
I wish we stop drafting fucking "flexible" linebackers and get ourselves some real pass rushers on the edge and inside.

 

[rossihunter2]

Yet, none of them is a pass rushing threat.
I wish we stop drafting fucking "flexible" linebackers and get ourselves some real pass rushers on the edge and inside.

i was about to say something similar - that doesnt solve our problem from this year - the strength of most of those players is not pass rushing so they dont fix our biggest issue on defence which is creating pass rush with fewer numbers - all that does is aid deception

now baun has graded well as a pure pass rusher in college but edgar's concerns about his size are pretty fair

i would not be confident in any of those guys winning 1v1 in a pass rushing situation and that's a problem

 

[Charm City]

i was about to say something similar - that doesnt solve our problem from this year - the strength of most of those players is not pass rushing so they dont fix our biggest issue on defence which is creating pass rush with fewer numbers - all that does is aid deception

now baun has graded well as a pure pass rusher in college but edgar's concerns about his size are pretty fair

i would not be confident in any of those guys winning 1v1 in a pass rushing situation and that's a problem

In the scenario where we draft Baun in the first, which for the record I am against, I envision us signing someone like Calais Campbell for the interior and Shaq Lawson for the edge to transition us to a 4-3 base. We don't really have the personnel for a 3-4 base defense anymore since we are thin at ILB and 3-4OLB

 

[rossihunter2]

the way K'Lavon Chaisson flattens at the apex of his edge rush is something else - the way he maintains speed while turning the corner is straight up special - combined with his crazy get-off and burst and its a lethal combination

 

[RavensMania]

I haven't been really active lately, so I'm not sure if it has been posted, but here is a good youtube by @Edgar on Zach Baun.

 

[Ravensnation5220]

the way K'Lavon Chaisson flattens at the apex of his edge rush is something else - the way he maintains speed while turning the corner is straight up special - combined with his crazy get-off and burst and its a lethal combination

I'd be shocked if he doesn't go top 20 tbh. Teams drool for those kind of traits

 

[JoeyFlex5]

What round do you guys grade josh uche and how do you like him in Baltimore?

I don’t know what to think considering bowser should’ve been the ultimate standup LB who can rush like a real edge, but we’ve been completely unable to work him into a gameplan, but at the same time I really like what I’ve seen from uche and I’ve liked his film since long before his strong senior bowl(I was talking up uche as a round 3 guy back during the season) but with his senior bowl he may have played himself into round 2.

do any of you think he would be worth it there? I think if we decided to go all in on the front 7 and sign like a 2nd tier DT in FA, and then draft a queen or Murray in R1, then a guy like uche becomes intriguing because he’s clearly a chess piece and can be a hell of a weapon, but he needs a supporting cast and coaching staff to use him right.

I just hate the sound of that last part though since tyus bowser was the same. I like to imagine him off ball next to a true ILB, 4-2-5, a big bull rusher like Ferguson crashing his side and uche coming wide on the blitz having the great bend to work that arc and the speed to finish, and next play he’s dropping in coverage. I think he’s a better off ball LB than Baun, but Baun is a better edge by far.

 

[rossihunter2]

What round do you guys grade josh uche and how do you like him in Baltimore?

I don’t know what to think considering bowser should’ve been the ultimate standup LB who can rush like a real edge, but we’ve been completely unable to work him into a gameplan, but at the same time I really like what I’ve seen from uche and I’ve liked his film since long before his strong senior bowl(I was talking up uche as a round 3 guy back during the season) but with his senior bowl he may have played himself into round 2.

do any of you think he would be worth it there? I think if we decided to go all in on the front 7 and sign like a 2nd tier DT in FA, and then draft a queen or Murray in R1, then a guy like uche becomes intriguing because he’s clearly a chess piece and can be a hell of a weapon, but he needs a supporting cast and coaching staff to use him right.

I just hate the sound of that last part though since tyus bowser was the same. I like to imagine him off ball next to a true ILB, 4-2-5, a big bull rusher like Ferguson crashing his side and uche coming wide on the blitz having the great bend to work that arc and the speed to finish, and next play he’s dropping in coverage. I think he’s a better off ball LB than Baun, but Baun is a better edge by far.

ill start with bowser because that seems relevant - he's not turned into an everydown OLB like we hoped he could but that doesnt mean he hasnt been worked into the gameplan - we saw especially later in the year that he has a clearly defined role in this defence as a 2 down OLB - the reason we dont notice him is because he's not on the field in obvious running situations and many of his passing snaps he's dropping into coverage

that said he has come on as a pass rusher and he will still take TEs to town but his pass rush is clearly the weakest part of his passing game but he is insanely good in coverage

with regards to josh uche he's a tricky one because he's so small and he struggles as soon as the OL get hands on him - but he's so quick that he can with with speed around the corner and bend and he's promising in coverage

but you're right to compare him to bowser because their weaknesses are similar - uche will not be a 3 down player at the NFL level on a consistent basis - he has heavier hands than bowser but he also is not that consistent with it -if he runs down the middle of a lineman they're going to stonewall him and move him wherever they want - he's a versatile piece to put in an attacking defence but he's not someone who's going to be a pure edge rusher in the NFL and as such im not sure he's going to be the best value for the ravens until you get into the 3rd round - ive got a mid-late 3rd round grade on him right now but would not be surprised if a team took him in the 2nd post combine - i just dont think he's a great fit for the ravens

but bowser is probably the perfect comp for him if you were looking for one

 

[Deebo813]

Was just looking at klavon chasson... now im not very good at observing pass rushers and i know the guy is still learning football because be started late but i can alrrady tell his draft stock gonna go up once combine get here. Just like edmunds and montez sweat.

Edit: naw he is too raw. Was getting stood up by running backs and tackles that could handle his speed.