Willbacker
Ravens Ring of Honor
I really like him as a prospect but he's a more hands in the dirt guy. Not once have I seen him in coverage. So I'd say 5 tech.
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2020 Edge Draft Thread
- Thread starter RavensMania
- Start date
I really like him as a prospect but he's a more hands in the dirt guy. Not once have I seen him in coverage. So I'd say 5 tech.
I haven't watched a enough of his tape, but I'd think he is more of a 5 tech in the pros. That being said, the database I posted today has 12 different games (7 in 2019, 5 in 2018). Have fun.
Seems like you are getting an early start this year. Either that or you got a late start last year.
got a much later start last year - ended up with an unfinished board - only really finished all the wrs and most of the touted top 100 prospects
but yeah ive got through about 4 of those games so far - just really struggling how to evaluate him - when he's inside he looks like he's got the athleticism to beat guards in a phone booth like mcphee and ZDS have done for us but outside he looks to much like a 4-3 DE albeit he's got some decent snaps setting the edge
if i were evaluating him generally i feel like he'll be a lot higher on 4-3 team's boards at the moment than the ravens - not really a fit as an every down type player necessarily here unless we really like him moving all over the front
think im going to move on to the next person and come back to him - just doesnt really seem like a true 5tech to me in the ravens system either tbh... hmmmm
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
He’s jj watt esque, in that I think he definitely belongs on the edge but he brings a skill set and a build that will allow him to be completely dominant working across a tackles face when an inside lane presents itself
ftr, the notion of an edge player who is more size and strength in college, sliding inside to rush on passing downs, is something that just doesn’t sit well with me anymore, it seems we so rarely see that pan out and these big powerful edge guys can stay big powerful edge guys in the nfl and impact the game there.
everyone thought Joey bosa should slide inside for rushing downs, good for him that he didn’t.
The reason I said that about epenesa is because the most dominant stretch I saw from him in all the tape I watched came when he moved inside and absolutely destroyed the guard about 4-5 snaps in a row
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I didn’t see that tape, I’m just going off of what I know previously about these gigantic edge rushers lol, I’ve seen a little bit of tape on him and I felt he looked like an edge defender for the nfl, like the traits were there and I wasn’t sure I saw DT traits.
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I was dead against klavon chaisson until I saw his tape vs Oklahoma, now I find myself wondering if he was just a late bloomer.. he’s had a long inju tru history which is worrisome but he seems to be over that now, and he looked kinda strange at a lot of points this season, all burst and motor with not much tangible impact to show for it, he seemed like he didn’t know where to start with his rush and he was just kinda running with no aim, but against Oklahoma he really put something together, he was showing a level of bend that I hadn’t often seen from him, and he was an absolute menace as far as his speed, constantly having OTs in their heels, finding inside lanes, capitalizing on good jumps and successfully bending that corner with speed, balance, and low pads, also while playing good in space.
I can’t help but think of tyus bowser with chaisson, but man he really went from “please god don’t draft him” to “hmmmmmm” for me, if that makes sense lol.
I can’t help but think of tyus bowser with chaisson, but man he really went from “please god don’t draft him” to “hmmmmmm” for me, if that makes sense lol.
this is my problem - to me he looks like neither a complete tweener - he's probably a 4-3 edge who can slide inside in certain situations but im not sure he's draftable as an edge for the ravens
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I think he would be absolutely draftable as an edge for us. A lot of this same thing was being said about Joey bosa because he didn’t have the exceptional burst you typically look for but he’s having no problems there. Plus the ravens love having big overwhelming edge defenders, and we’ve always done pretty well with them, Thomas, JJ, upshaw, and now Ferguson coming into his own. He would fit the bill
i just think someone like yetur gross-matos from what ive seen so far is a much better fit in that type of roll - has some effective experience rushing while stood up, has the flexibility to play 3-4 OLB and 4-3 DE - can drop, has some flexibility and bend and some speed to turn the corner etc. but has really effective and heavy hands to shed
ill have to come back to aj epenesa i think later after ive seen what some more of the class has to offer - of the guys ive seen so far i have him 3rd in the class but i only really started yesterday
for reference here's the tape where he took over the game from the inside - watch from about 8:33 onwards (basically the final 2 minute drill)...
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I don’t like gross matos very much at all. I think he’s extremely overhyped, very raw, not the most flexible of rushers, and is all burst and motor. I would take Curtis weaver over him no question, and a similar rusher who’s all burst and motor in klavon chaisson I think is better than him as well
Willbacker
Ravens Ring of Honor
This is a spot on description of his style but come to think of it Wormley was used in the same style at Michigan. He could be bulked up by 10-15 lbs and not lose burst and speed. Its gotten to the point where it doesn't matter if they're 4-3 edge guys. They can transition.
good to know - weaver is next on my list to look at - chaisson ironically is the one after that lol - going to try and also get through some bradlee anae, julian okwara and jabari zuniga today
but with gross-matos i really like the progression i saw on tape from 2018 to 2019 - the refinement in his hand usage and how he takes advantage - he doesnt have a large variety in the way he goes about his rush and doesnt always seem to have a plan but he's really powerful at the point of attack and it shows up in the way he controls the edge in the run game - some technique things to work on but some really good hand usage to hold that edge and plug the holes
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
I like anae, I tried really hard to like okwara but I just can’t, scouring reports say he’s a great edge bender but I just don’t see it, he looks stiff, he’s got that weird hunch in his shoulders and his back always seems to completely straight and he just doesn’t seem to bend well, and he doesn’t offer much other than a speedy edge rush. Didn’t like Zuniga at all.
when watching chaisson you might come away unimpressed but you’ll feel like you’re watching an entirely different player on his Oklahoma tape
well im through 1 and a half games of chaisson - bama and oklahoma and i really like chaisson - he's been inconsistent rushing the passer but clearly has a really high upside and as you said in the oklahoma game he flashes some real nice nuance to his pass rush - like the conversion of speed to power, some nice edge bend, shows the ability to violently shed with a rip etc. albeit im seeing lots of those things in the bama tape too
but what i really like about him so far is the other elements of being an edge - he's really impactful in the run game - strong violent hands, extends well - high effort and pursuit on the backside of plays (literally the only guy in this class ive watched so far who has shown consistent effort on the backside of the play - even chase young getting lazy in that aspect) - and i really like some of the things he's showing in coverage - drops naturally with fluid hips into zone and watches the eyes of the qb well
really really like him so far - like him enough that im gonna go fairly deep on him straight away i think
what is it about the non-oklahoma games that leaves you unimpressed? is it the lack of finishing to get those sacks or something else?
he's got really good understanding too of how and when to rush - really quick processing post-snap - recognises when the back is leaking out etc.
that lsu bama game in general was absolutely wild
JoeyFlex5
Hall of Famer
He seemed to have a lack of understanding, like no matter his motor he often failed to finish the play. His ceiling was always very apparent to me but I didn’t see consistent finishing until that Oklahoma tape
and I think Bama would have won that game if Tua was healthy