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2020 ILB Draft Thread

JoeyFlex5

Hall of Famer
rumors have it that several teams have Jordyn Brooks as the 2nd best ILB after Simmons.
I can’t get on board with this, I don’t see it, for a guy who’s considered to be strictly a downhill mike type, I see too many bad decisions in the one aspect of his game where he should shine, I tried to get into his game but I just can’t lol. I saw 2 plays on his Oklahoma that were such head scratchers it probably knocked him down a whole round lol, one where he was clearly tasked to chase to the edge and make the stop and he had a bead on the rb at the edge and instead decided push downhill and engage a blocker as the rb whizzed past, and another where he’s supposed to read a fairly vanilla run play and fill the B gap but instead he fills the A gap on his DTs ass and leaves the B wide open and the back takes off for a chunk, there was no reason for these plays to happen the way they did
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
I can’t get on board with this, I don’t see it, for a guy who’s considered to be strictly a downhill mike type, I see too many bad decisions in the one aspect of his game where he should shine, I tried to get into his game but I just can’t lol. I saw 2 plays on his Oklahoma that were such head scratchers it probably knocked him down a whole round lol, one where he was clearly tasked to chase to the edge and make the stop and he had a bead on the rb at the edge and instead decided push downhill and engage a blocker as the rb whizzed past, and another where he’s supposed to read a fairly vanilla run play and fill the B gap but instead he fills the A gap on his DTs ass and leaves the B wide open and the back takes off for a chunk, there was no reason for these plays to happen the way they did
I don't see it either, I mean the guys never taken steps backwards and is awful in zone coverage. Yes he hasn't really been asked to do these things and could improve, but he's more of a downhill Mike as you said.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
How do you feel on Malik Harrison?

i like him a lot - smart guy, who was clearly asked to do a lot more in college than most of the other LBs in the class - physical in the hole and coming downhill, assignment sound, not blistering athleticism but enough to get sideline-to-sideline and has a pretty huge amount of length that helps him make up for lack of fluidity in zone drops etc. - will struggle in man coverage if he gets split out but i think that's not something we ask a huge amount of from our ILBs with the way we play dime and use deception and drop OLBs (like Judon and Tyus)

his flaws match well with our defence i think

would like him stepping in as the Mike here and playing 2 and a half downs

I have him and Dye stacked next to each other at 68 and 69

(my big board and positional rankings have all been posted if you want to see where i have everyone stacked up)
 

cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
I can’t get on board with this, I don’t see it, for a guy who’s considered to be strictly a downhill mike type, I see too many bad decisions in the one aspect of his game where he should shine, I tried to get into his game but I just can’t lol. I saw 2 plays on his Oklahoma that were such head scratchers it probably knocked him down a whole round lol, one where he was clearly tasked to chase to the edge and make the stop and he had a bead on the rb at the edge and instead decided push downhill and engage a blocker as the rb whizzed past, and another where he’s supposed to read a fairly vanilla run play and fill the B gap but instead he fills the A gap on his DTs ass and leaves the B wide open and the back takes off for a chunk, there was no reason for these plays to happen the way they did
The OU game was tragic, so many missed chances/tackles in the backfield. No short area quickness, his breaks are slow and I mean his coverage skills are a huge ?-mark. From what I've seen he wasn't used in coverage, only a spy.
He's a one dimensional LB but he has athletic upside, that's why I'm assuming they have him ranked 2nd or 3rd. But I just don't see it.
Oh I forgot one thing he offers value as a blitzer, but imho so does pretty much everyone else in this class.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
The OU game was tragic, so many missed chances/tackles in the backfield. No short area quickness, his breaks are slow and I mean his coverage skills are a huge ?-mark. From what I've seen he wasn't used in coverage, only a spy.
He's a one dimensional LB but he has athletic upside, that's why I'm assuming they have him ranked 2nd or 3rd. But I just don't see it.
Oh I forgot one thing he offers value as a blitzer, but imho so does pretty much everyone else in this class.

if all we were looking for is a blitzer, we'd honestly be drafting Chris Orr
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
DJ says on his pre-draft conference call:

and one of the conversations that I've had over the last few years and really even more so this year is with the linebackers, it doesn't matter if you are an unbelievably instinctive player and you're tough and you're physical. If you cannot run, they can't hide you anymore. You're going to get exposed. At that position you just have to lean towards athleticism. You sacrifice some size for a guy like Patrick Queen because he can run and cover backs all day long. You can blitz him, he can make plays sideline to sideline. Same with Kenneth Murray. That's why those guys are at a premium when you get those linebackers that can really run and make plays.

I think that's interesting - does the way the Ravens play Dime go against this idea or have we just never had someone with athleticism who is good enough to be successful?

it would make sense as to why the majority of the league are high on queen, murray and (apparently) jordyn brooks - because these guys can fly
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
This is a continuation of Bob McGinn's series using 16 scouts from around the league.


1. ISAIAH SIMMONS, Clemson (6-3 ½, 233, 4.38, 1): Simmons redshirted in 2016, played extensively as a safety in ’17 and started as a LB/nickel back in 2018-’19. “Love the speed,” one scout said. “Love the size, the length, the versatility, coverage. I’d play him at linebacker close to the line of scrimmage. In some schemes he may be a safety. He can wear a lot of different hats. That’s what makes him so special. He can cover. He can play in the slot. He can play in the box. He can play in the deep part of the field. Even if he is your ‘sam’ backer you can play him at nickel. You can blitz him. He’s a hybrid. Love him.” He declined to do shuttle runs or drill work at the combine after testing superbly earlier in the night. “With the exception of (Joe) Burrow I might make the guy the first pick,” said a second scout. “At North Carolina, Lawrence Taylor played all over the field. Played in space and rushed the passer. I don’t want to make that comparison now because it’s been so long, but this guy can rush the passer, play on the line of scrimmage, move 12 to 15 yards down the field and cover people.” Simmons scored 12 on the 12-minute, 50-question Wonderlic test. Many understand the test has its limitations and doesn’t always provide the clearest model of intellect. Still, it’s survived because teams still view it as a valuable tool in the evaluation of players. “It’s crazy to think he had a low test score and played like five different positions at Clemson,” a third scout said. “For him to be able to handle all that stuff and perform like he did, it doesn’t match up.” Simmons is a fourth-year junior from Olathe, Kan. “You can’t play a base defense with him,” said a fourth scout. “He could be a huge hit. He could be like a satellite defender that everything revolves around. Or he’s never going to find a home and people will be left scratching their heads saying, ‘He wasn’t a safety, he wasn’t a linebacker, we could never find a home for him.’ There’s a lot of risk. If you do not have a fully engaged shared vision, oh yeah, it could go south quickly.” His arms were 33 3/8, hands were 9 5/8. “He is not a tough, physical football player,” said a fifth scout. “He’s not a hitter. Doesn’t break down well. I don’t get it. Down in and down out, he’s not a factor or a difference-maker.”

2. KENNETH MURRAY, Oklahoma (6-2 ½, 242, 4.55, 1): Murray is a third-year junior. “One of my favorite players,” said one scout. “When you plug in the player and the person you love him even more. He does everything you want. He runs the defense. I thought he was better than Roquan Smith. I don’t think he’s quite as good as a Luke Kuechly. He’ll be a Pro Bowl-type player. He didn’t cover there. They didn’t ask him to, but I think he can. He’s an explosive athlete but he’s not a physical tackler. That’s one of the only knocks I have on him.” Murray started all 42 games, finishing with 335 tackles (37 for loss) and 9 ½ sacks. “He can run the show,” a second scout said. “Just a little bit lacking on instincts and angles. But he’s big, fast and a hell of a kid. He loves football. Great locker-room guy.” Murray is a tremendous testing athlete, too. He scored a Wonderlic of 21. “He’s sideline-to-sideline,” a third scout said. “Inside, he tries to take on. He’s just not the strongest. He’s more of a slip-and-dip type, which is what you’re playing with now. As far as a modern-day linebacker, he has those traits. Covers well.” Murray is from Missouri City, Texas.

3. PATRICK QUEEN, LSU (6-0, 229, 4.50, 1-2): Queen is a third-year junior who wasn’t even starting until Michael Divinity was suspended early in the season. “I think Queen’s the second-best player in the draft,” said one scout who designated Chase Young as No. 1. “Well-built. Explosive runner. Guy makes plays. He’s not an Alpha dog. That’s OK as long as the ‘mike’ can run it.” Divinity called the defense before the suspension and the more experienced Jacob Phillips played an instrumental role next to Queen. “He’s not going to be Ray Lewis mentality,” another scout said. “It hasn’t been his thing to this point because he’s only been a one-year starter. Had he started for more than one year I think he would have grown into that role more.” Queen started just 16 games in three seasons, finishing with 131 tackles (17 ½ for loss), four sacks and no forced fumbles. He posted a Wonderlic of 24. “Divinity made the calls,” said a third scout. “That’s why it took so long for Queen to get on the field. He’s a smart kid but he’s not very vocal.” Queen is from Ventress, La. “He is a straight-line fast guy,” said a fourth scout. “Besides that, I don’t think he does much well. He’s not very athletic in space. He doesn’t break down well. He misses a ton of tackles. Not physical at all taking on and getting off blocks. I don’t think he has great instincts. In coverage, he kind of drops to spots. He’s not a man-cover athlete for being that size.”

4. ZACK BAUN, Wisconsin (6-2 ½, 238, 4.68, 1-2): Baun redshirted in 2015, backed up in ’16 and missed all of ’17 with a Lisfranc tear in his left foot. “I got guys that don’t like him but I like how he plays,” one scout said. “He’s a pretty smart dude. I like the way his motor’s always running. He’s got good hands to stack. He works to capture the edge. Size gives him a few issues. Too productive not to get drafted high.” Baun started at OLB in a 3-4 defense the past two seasons and played off the ball at the Senior Bowl, where he is listed here. “He’s going to essentially change positions,” said another scout. “The first-round stuff is kind of crazy to me. He’s a good football player but he kind of came out of nowhere if you’ve watched last year’s tape. To take a guy in the first round at a position he’s never played is kind of bizarre. You’re not talking about a tackle playing guard. You’re talking about a defensive end playing inside linebacker. That’s a whole different world.” Baun finished with 154 tackles (30 for loss) and 15 sacks. “He’s borderline-to-small to be a 3-4 outside backer,” a third scout said. “I wrote him as a ‘sam.’ He’s tough and has good strength for a guy his size.” ESPN’s Adam Schefter cited sources saying Baun tested positive at the combine for a diluted sample stemming from excessive water intake before the weigh-in (and also reported that “under the NFL’s new CBA, it will not count as a strike against him whereas it would have under the NFL’s old CBA. Therefore, teams don’t believe it will impact his draft status much.”) Baun posted a Wonderlic of 24 and is from Brown Deer, Wis.

5. JORDYN BROOKS, Texas Tech (6-0, 240, 4.52, 2-3): Brooks moved to MLB as a senior after starting the first three seasons on the outside. “I kind of like him,” said one scout. “He can get off the spot and runs to the ball. He can chase. He can cover. He’s got exceptional quickness. He can drop his hips, change directions, explode and make a tackle in space. Modern-day linebacker. He’s top 50 for sure.” He’s the first LB mentioned by a scout when asked to pick out the heaviest hitter. He posted a Wonderlic of 10. “I don’t think (running a defense) comes natural to him, but he worked at it,” one scout said. Another scout disagreed, saying there was no way he could direct and call a defense. “No, no, no, no, no,” he said. “But he’s a good player. Real tough. He’s been hurt, we don’t have that much medical on him and he’s 5-11. I don’t like that (10 test).” Has had two shoulder operations and finished with 367 tackles (33 for loss) and seven sacks. He’s the first All-American LB for the Red Raiders since Zach Thomas in 1995. “Kind of thick, active, play-hard,” a fourth scout said. “He can do enough in the pass game.” Brooks is from Houston.

6. WILLIE GAY, Mississippi State (6-1, 243, 4.47, 3): Gay is a third-year junior with a mere six starts in 31 games. Besides an impressive 40 at the combine, his 11-4 broad jump led linebackers and his hands led at 10 ½. “He blew it up at the combine,” said one scout. “He is active. He is tough. Tries to take on. Did not see the speed and change of direction on film that he displayed with the workout numbers. He does play hard. Just thought he was an old-school, inside, one-down linebacker.” He missed eight games in 2019 for academic fraud, according to scouts, and reportedly punched a teammate (QB Garrett Shrader) in the face during the leadup to the Music City Bowl, causing Shrader to miss the game because of an orbital bone injury. “You’ve got to drop him a little for the character and off-the-field stuff,” a second scout said. “He’s not a criminal, so I don’t mind him. Some issues are terminal; some aren’t. He’s just going to be maintenance for you as a rookie.” Gay posted a Wonderlic score of 14. “Has a starter’s physical ability but doesn’t have a starter’s full package,” said a third scout. “It’s a roll of the dice on him. He’s talented, but really, really inconsistent.” Gay finished with 99 tackles (11 for loss) and three sacks. He played college ball in his hometown of Starkville, Miss.

7. LOGAN WILSON, Wyoming (6-2, 238, 4.60, 3): Wilson is just the second player in the Cowboys’ history to be a three-time captain. “Really productive almost every game you put on,” one scout said. “He’s a good athlete, and he’s got prototypical NFL size. He’s got an ability to take on and use his hands. He sees the game pretty quickly.” That personnel man viewed Wilson as a starter with a chance to play every snap given pro experience. “He’s a sleeper almost, if you will,” said another scout. “He’s really good. He’s not a physical tackler, but he is tough, big and strong. He does enough of everything that matters.” He started 52 games, finishing with 421 tackles (35 for loss), seven sacks, 10 interceptions and 24 passes defensed. “Nice feel for the game,” said a third scout. “Can break down and make space tackles. Can run and cover ground.” Wilson posted a Wonderlic of 16 and is from Casper, Wyo.

8. AKEEM DAVIS-GAITHER, Appalachian State (6-1 ½, 224, no 40, 3): He started 30 of 55 games after redshirting in 2015. “Nickel backer,” said one scout. “Athletic guy with quickness, toughness and natural football skills. Will be an excellent special-teams player. Space player. Plays hard. He’s a modern-day linebacker.” Davis-Gaither was unable to run or work out at the combine because of foot surgery in March. “Not running will hurt him,” said another scout. “Never have a problem with this type of kid. Good athletic background.” His father, Keith, is WR coach at Army. He finished with 258 tackles (28 for loss) and eight sacks. “He can run,” said a third scout. “Low 4.5’s. Really high-character kid. He’s explosive on contact. He’s the new wave of NFL backer.” Davis-Gaither is from Thomasville, N.C.

9. JACOB PHILLIPS, LSU (6-3, 229, 4.64, 4): Phillips led the national champions in tackles with 113. “He had no hype at all, but he’s actually my favorite of all these linebackers,” said one scout. “He worked out well and played hard. More physical than (Patrick) Queen. Phillips is bigger, more competitive, more physical, more instinctive, more productive. Second round.” He declared a year early after playing extensively off the bench and starting 26 games the past two years. “Fifth round,” a second scout said. “I question his level of explosion. Struggles to easily open up his hips. Doesn’t show natural feel. Needs a clean path to make plays. Just enough speed. Plays high and doesn’t use his hands around blockers.” Phillips finished with 218 tackles (13 ½ for loss) and two sacks. “He won’t last to the fifth or sixth round,” a third scout said. “He started at LSU for two years. If a guy can run a defense, a guy like that is invaluable.” Phillips is from Nashville.

10. MALIK HARRISON, Ohio State (6-2 ½, 247, 4.63, 4): Harrison is a two-year starter at WLB. “People are discounting the athlete because he’s a thumper,” one scout said. “I think he can really run. That’s where people might get it wrong. At first I thought, ‘This guy’s just a two-down ‘mike.’’ The more I watched him, I think he’s got enough juice.” Finished with 205 tackles (29 for loss), 10 sacks and 10 passes defensed. “Ran better than I think people thought,” another scout said. “Really good football player. Physical. Trouble in space breaking down. Third round.” He had a 36-inch vertical jump and is from Columbus. “We think he’s a 3-4 ‘mike’ without instincts,” said a third scout. “He looks the part. Something’s missing intangibly. He’s more flash than consistent. He can’t play ‘mike’ in a 4-3.” Added a fourth scout: “I’m not impressed with him. Too slow. Tough kid, but what you going to do with him?”

11. JUSTIN STRNAD, Wake Forest (6-3 ½, 238, 4.74, 4): Strnad is a fifth-year senior, two-year starter. “He’s interesting,” one scout said. “He didn’t play well last year. He didn’t play with any kind of physicality. Has athleticism in coverage.” Finished with 244 tackles (22 ½ for loss), eight sacks, four interceptions and three forced fumbles. “Like his instincts and range but needs to be more physical,” a second scout said. “Extremely instinctive player with good quickness. Tackles OK.” His senior season ended with a torn biceps in Game 7. “He has value at the back end (of the draft), especially with the injury,” a third scout said. “I was thinking middle rounds until I saw his body. I said, ‘No, you can’t draft this guy in the middle rounds.’ He looks like a big wide receiver.” Strnad is from Palm Harbor, Fla.

12. DAVION TAYLOR, Colorado (6-0 ½, 227, 4.44, 4): Taylor practiced football but didn’t play in high school because of his mother’s religious beliefs (Seventh-Day Adventist). He played two years at a junior college before starting at star LB in a 3-4 defense in 2018-’19. “He’s raw but, man, athletically, he’s probably as good as anybody in this group,” one scout said. “At the end of the day, he might be as good of a player as anybody other than Simmons. You’ve just got to be a little patient with him. He’s not going to start right away. Maybe you can put him on the field in sub the first year and he’ll be a really good (special) teams guy. Man, he is fast.” He’s not a quick study and just hasn’t played enough football. “You talk about a guy that’s gonna make it on special teams,” another scout said. “He can’t process. He’s never played stack (LB). He’s a JC guy. But I’ll guarantee you one thing: he’s not getting out of the fourth round.” He finished with 144 tackles (20 ½ for loss) and was an outstanding sprinter for the Buffaloes’ track team. “Better athlete than football player,” said a third scout. “He’s not very instinctive. It’s not his fault.” Taylor is from Magnolia, Miss.

13. TANNER MUSE, Clemson (6-2, 226, 4.39, 4-5): Last April, the combine scout estimated his 40 time at 4.75. In a shocker, Muse ran sub-4.4 in Indianapolis. “I didn’t see that 4.39 on tape,” said one scout. “I thought he was stiff and slow. He’s not a safety. He’s got instincts, and he’s a tough guy. He doesn’t have vision. Unathletic, stiff. Free agent. You’d have to try him at linebacker.” Muse started for three years at FS but is now viewed more as a subpackage LB. “He’s real stiff but God, he ran 4.41 (on the scout’s watch) and he’s got a square jaw,” said a second scout. “There were times where Simmons races across the field and overruns and whiffs badly, and then Muse, who is stiff as a board, squares the guy up and tackles him. How does that happen? One’s gonna go top 10 and the other one’s an afterthought.” His Wonderlic score of 26 was the highest at the position. His final stats included 237 tackles (10 ½ for loss), six interceptions and 22 passes defensed. Said a third scout: “I imagine he could go in the third now. Look at his size-speed ratio. He does play well in the box. He tackles well. I had no idea he’d run a 4.4.” Muse is from Belmont, N.C.

14. TROY DYE, Oregon (6-3 ½, 237, no 40, 4-5): Dye played 87.5 percent of the defensive snaps from 2016-’19 as a WLB. “He’s not a take-on guy at all,” said one scout. “He can pick up backs and tight ends and run with them. To his detriment, he played most of this year with a big club on his right hand (broken thumb). I like the guy a lot, but he’s just not real physical. He’s not a big person.” Finished with 397 tackles (44 for loss), 15 sacks, five interceptions, three forced fumbles and 21 passes defensed. “He’s like that nickel linebacker that comes in on passing downs,” a second scout said. “He just has a knack in coverage. He does need to get bigger and stronger.” Underwent arthroscopic knee surgery in January and couldn’t work at the combine. “He gets the ball,” said a third scout. “He plays long. There’s a little bit of finesse to his game, and it frustrates you at times. But most of the time those guys get more physical. They figure out they need to be more physical as a pro. They can’t just run around. I was thinking second or third round. Because of the injury, I could see him getting to the fourth and eventually becoming a starter and being a really good pick if he gets his head on and eats.” Dye is from Norco, Calif.

15. SHAUN BRADLEY, Temple (6-0 ½, 235, 4.49, 5): Bradley grayshirted at a junior college in 2015, backed up in ’16 and started 38 games from 2017-’19 at MLB. “He is a really good athlete,” one scout said. “Instinctive, plays hard. Just that modern-day space linebacker. He can cover a lot of ground. Liked him a lot.” His production would have been much better if he were a more reliable tackler. Finished with 256 tackles (22 for loss), three interceptions and three forced fumbles. “I did not see a 4.5 guy on tape,” a second scout said. “At all. Ever. I thought he played real lackadaisical for a guy that had a single digit (jersey number 5) at Temple. Those guys are supposed to be bad asses. I didn’t see a guy that deserved to have a single digit.” Bradley is from Mt. Holly, N.J.

OTHERS, in order: Mykal Walker, Fresno State; Cam Brown, Penn State; Kamal Martin, Minnesota; Chapelle Russell, Temple; Evan Weaver, California; Shaquille Quarterman, Miami; Francis Bernard, Utah; Khaleke Hudson, Michigan; David Woodward, Utah State; Markus Bailey, Purdue; Joe Bachie, Michigan State; Jordan Glasgow, Michigan; Dante Olson, Montana.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Interesting take -- also from Bob McGinn's series

NFL executive in personnel: “I think everyone there (LSU) is going to get overdrafted because of the year they had. Not that they’re not good players. But I just think that every player that’s going in the second round would usually be a third.”
 

cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor
This is a continuation of Bob McGinn's series using 16 scouts from around the league.


1. ISAIAH SIMMONS, Clemson (6-3 ½, 233, 4.38, 1): Simmons redshirted in 2016, played extensively as a safety in ’17 and started as a LB/nickel back in 2018-’19. “Love the speed,” one scout said. “Love the size, the length, the versatility, coverage. I’d play him at linebacker close to the line of scrimmage. In some schemes he may be a safety. He can wear a lot of different hats. That’s what makes him so special. He can cover. He can play in the slot. He can play in the box. He can play in the deep part of the field. Even if he is your ‘sam’ backer you can play him at nickel. You can blitz him. He’s a hybrid. Love him.” He declined to do shuttle runs or drill work at the combine after testing superbly earlier in the night. “With the exception of (Joe) Burrow I might make the guy the first pick,” said a second scout. “At North Carolina, Lawrence Taylor played all over the field. Played in space and rushed the passer. I don’t want to make that comparison now because it’s been so long, but this guy can rush the passer, play on the line of scrimmage, move 12 to 15 yards down the field and cover people.” Simmons scored 12 on the 12-minute, 50-question Wonderlic test. Many understand the test has its limitations and doesn’t always provide the clearest model of intellect. Still, it’s survived because teams still view it as a valuable tool in the evaluation of players. “It’s crazy to think he had a low test score and played like five different positions at Clemson,” a third scout said. “For him to be able to handle all that stuff and perform like he did, it doesn’t match up.” Simmons is a fourth-year junior from Olathe, Kan. “You can’t play a base defense with him,” said a fourth scout. “He could be a huge hit. He could be like a satellite defender that everything revolves around. Or he’s never going to find a home and people will be left scratching their heads saying, ‘He wasn’t a safety, he wasn’t a linebacker, we could never find a home for him.’ There’s a lot of risk. If you do not have a fully engaged shared vision, oh yeah, it could go south quickly.” His arms were 33 3/8, hands were 9 5/8. “He is not a tough, physical football player,” said a fifth scout. “He’s not a hitter. Doesn’t break down well. I don’t get it. Down in and down out, he’s not a factor or a difference-maker.”

2. KENNETH MURRAY, Oklahoma (6-2 ½, 242, 4.55, 1): Murray is a third-year junior. “One of my favorite players,” said one scout. “When you plug in the player and the person you love him even more. He does everything you want. He runs the defense. I thought he was better than Roquan Smith. I don’t think he’s quite as good as a Luke Kuechly. He’ll be a Pro Bowl-type player. He didn’t cover there. They didn’t ask him to, but I think he can. He’s an explosive athlete but he’s not a physical tackler. That’s one of the only knocks I have on him.” Murray started all 42 games, finishing with 335 tackles (37 for loss) and 9 ½ sacks. “He can run the show,” a second scout said. “Just a little bit lacking on instincts and angles. But he’s big, fast and a hell of a kid. He loves football. Great locker-room guy.” Murray is a tremendous testing athlete, too. He scored a Wonderlic of 21. “He’s sideline-to-sideline,” a third scout said. “Inside, he tries to take on. He’s just not the strongest. He’s more of a slip-and-dip type, which is what you’re playing with now. As far as a modern-day linebacker, he has those traits. Covers well.” Murray is from Missouri City, Texas.

3. PATRICK QUEEN, LSU (6-0, 229, 4.50, 1-2): Queen is a third-year junior who wasn’t even starting until Michael Divinity was suspended early in the season. “I think Queen’s the second-best player in the draft,” said one scout who designated Chase Young as No. 1. “Well-built. Explosive runner. Guy makes plays. He’s not an Alpha dog. That’s OK as long as the ‘mike’ can run it.” Divinity called the defense before the suspension and the more experienced Jacob Phillips played an instrumental role next to Queen. “He’s not going to be Ray Lewis mentality,” another scout said. “It hasn’t been his thing to this point because he’s only been a one-year starter. Had he started for more than one year I think he would have grown into that role more.” Queen started just 16 games in three seasons, finishing with 131 tackles (17 ½ for loss), four sacks and no forced fumbles. He posted a Wonderlic of 24. “Divinity made the calls,” said a third scout. “That’s why it took so long for Queen to get on the field. He’s a smart kid but he’s not very vocal.” Queen is from Ventress, La. “He is a straight-line fast guy,” said a fourth scout. “Besides that, I don’t think he does much well. He’s not very athletic in space. He doesn’t break down well. He misses a ton of tackles. Not physical at all taking on and getting off blocks. I don’t think he has great instincts. In coverage, he kind of drops to spots. He’s not a man-cover athlete for being that size.”

4. ZACK BAUN, Wisconsin (6-2 ½, 238, 4.68, 1-2): Baun redshirted in 2015, backed up in ’16 and missed all of ’17 with a Lisfranc tear in his left foot. “I got guys that don’t like him but I like how he plays,” one scout said. “He’s a pretty smart dude. I like the way his motor’s always running. He’s got good hands to stack. He works to capture the edge. Size gives him a few issues. Too productive not to get drafted high.” Baun started at OLB in a 3-4 defense the past two seasons and played off the ball at the Senior Bowl, where he is listed here. “He’s going to essentially change positions,” said another scout. “The first-round stuff is kind of crazy to me. He’s a good football player but he kind of came out of nowhere if you’ve watched last year’s tape. To take a guy in the first round at a position he’s never played is kind of bizarre. You’re not talking about a tackle playing guard. You’re talking about a defensive end playing inside linebacker. That’s a whole different world.” Baun finished with 154 tackles (30 for loss) and 15 sacks. “He’s borderline-to-small to be a 3-4 outside backer,” a third scout said. “I wrote him as a ‘sam.’ He’s tough and has good strength for a guy his size.” ESPN’s Adam Schefter cited sources saying Baun tested positive at the combine for a diluted sample stemming from excessive water intake before the weigh-in (and also reported that “under the NFL’s new CBA, it will not count as a strike against him whereas it would have under the NFL’s old CBA. Therefore, teams don’t believe it will impact his draft status much.”) Baun posted a Wonderlic of 24 and is from Brown Deer, Wis.

5. JORDYN BROOKS, Texas Tech (6-0, 240, 4.52, 2-3): Brooks moved to MLB as a senior after starting the first three seasons on the outside. “I kind of like him,” said one scout. “He can get off the spot and runs to the ball. He can chase. He can cover. He’s got exceptional quickness. He can drop his hips, change directions, explode and make a tackle in space. Modern-day linebacker. He’s top 50 for sure.” He’s the first LB mentioned by a scout when asked to pick out the heaviest hitter. He posted a Wonderlic of 10. “I don’t think (running a defense) comes natural to him, but he worked at it,” one scout said. Another scout disagreed, saying there was no way he could direct and call a defense. “No, no, no, no, no,” he said. “But he’s a good player. Real tough. He’s been hurt, we don’t have that much medical on him and he’s 5-11. I don’t like that (10 test).” Has had two shoulder operations and finished with 367 tackles (33 for loss) and seven sacks. He’s the first All-American LB for the Red Raiders since Zach Thomas in 1995. “Kind of thick, active, play-hard,” a fourth scout said. “He can do enough in the pass game.” Brooks is from Houston.

6. WILLIE GAY, Mississippi State (6-1, 243, 4.47, 3): Gay is a third-year junior with a mere six starts in 31 games. Besides an impressive 40 at the combine, his 11-4 broad jump led linebackers and his hands led at 10 ½. “He blew it up at the combine,” said one scout. “He is active. He is tough. Tries to take on. Did not see the speed and change of direction on film that he displayed with the workout numbers. He does play hard. Just thought he was an old-school, inside, one-down linebacker.” He missed eight games in 2019 for academic fraud, according to scouts, and reportedly punched a teammate (QB Garrett Shrader) in the face during the leadup to the Music City Bowl, causing Shrader to miss the game because of an orbital bone injury. “You’ve got to drop him a little for the character and off-the-field stuff,” a second scout said. “He’s not a criminal, so I don’t mind him. Some issues are terminal; some aren’t. He’s just going to be maintenance for you as a rookie.” Gay posted a Wonderlic score of 14. “Has a starter’s physical ability but doesn’t have a starter’s full package,” said a third scout. “It’s a roll of the dice on him. He’s talented, but really, really inconsistent.” Gay finished with 99 tackles (11 for loss) and three sacks. He played college ball in his hometown of Starkville, Miss.

7. LOGAN WILSON, Wyoming (6-2, 238, 4.60, 3): Wilson is just the second player in the Cowboys’ history to be a three-time captain. “Really productive almost every game you put on,” one scout said. “He’s a good athlete, and he’s got prototypical NFL size. He’s got an ability to take on and use his hands. He sees the game pretty quickly.” That personnel man viewed Wilson as a starter with a chance to play every snap given pro experience. “He’s a sleeper almost, if you will,” said another scout. “He’s really good. He’s not a physical tackler, but he is tough, big and strong. He does enough of everything that matters.” He started 52 games, finishing with 421 tackles (35 for loss), seven sacks, 10 interceptions and 24 passes defensed. “Nice feel for the game,” said a third scout. “Can break down and make space tackles. Can run and cover ground.” Wilson posted a Wonderlic of 16 and is from Casper, Wyo.

8. AKEEM DAVIS-GAITHER, Appalachian State (6-1 ½, 224, no 40, 3): He started 30 of 55 games after redshirting in 2015. “Nickel backer,” said one scout. “Athletic guy with quickness, toughness and natural football skills. Will be an excellent special-teams player. Space player. Plays hard. He’s a modern-day linebacker.” Davis-Gaither was unable to run or work out at the combine because of foot surgery in March. “Not running will hurt him,” said another scout. “Never have a problem with this type of kid. Good athletic background.” His father, Keith, is WR coach at Army. He finished with 258 tackles (28 for loss) and eight sacks. “He can run,” said a third scout. “Low 4.5’s. Really high-character kid. He’s explosive on contact. He’s the new wave of NFL backer.” Davis-Gaither is from Thomasville, N.C.

9. JACOB PHILLIPS, LSU (6-3, 229, 4.64, 4): Phillips led the national champions in tackles with 113. “He had no hype at all, but he’s actually my favorite of all these linebackers,” said one scout. “He worked out well and played hard. More physical than (Patrick) Queen. Phillips is bigger, more competitive, more physical, more instinctive, more productive. Second round.” He declared a year early after playing extensively off the bench and starting 26 games the past two years. “Fifth round,” a second scout said. “I question his level of explosion. Struggles to easily open up his hips. Doesn’t show natural feel. Needs a clean path to make plays. Just enough speed. Plays high and doesn’t use his hands around blockers.” Phillips finished with 218 tackles (13 ½ for loss) and two sacks. “He won’t last to the fifth or sixth round,” a third scout said. “He started at LSU for two years. If a guy can run a defense, a guy like that is invaluable.” Phillips is from Nashville.

10. MALIK HARRISON, Ohio State (6-2 ½, 247, 4.63, 4): Harrison is a two-year starter at WLB. “People are discounting the athlete because he’s a thumper,” one scout said. “I think he can really run. That’s where people might get it wrong. At first I thought, ‘This guy’s just a two-down ‘mike.’’ The more I watched him, I think he’s got enough juice.” Finished with 205 tackles (29 for loss), 10 sacks and 10 passes defensed. “Ran better than I think people thought,” another scout said. “Really good football player. Physical. Trouble in space breaking down. Third round.” He had a 36-inch vertical jump and is from Columbus. “We think he’s a 3-4 ‘mike’ without instincts,” said a third scout. “He looks the part. Something’s missing intangibly. He’s more flash than consistent. He can’t play ‘mike’ in a 4-3.” Added a fourth scout: “I’m not impressed with him. Too slow. Tough kid, but what you going to do with him?”

11. JUSTIN STRNAD, Wake Forest (6-3 ½, 238, 4.74, 4): Strnad is a fifth-year senior, two-year starter. “He’s interesting,” one scout said. “He didn’t play well last year. He didn’t play with any kind of physicality. Has athleticism in coverage.” Finished with 244 tackles (22 ½ for loss), eight sacks, four interceptions and three forced fumbles. “Like his instincts and range but needs to be more physical,” a second scout said. “Extremely instinctive player with good quickness. Tackles OK.” His senior season ended with a torn biceps in Game 7. “He has value at the back end (of the draft), especially with the injury,” a third scout said. “I was thinking middle rounds until I saw his body. I said, ‘No, you can’t draft this guy in the middle rounds.’ He looks like a big wide receiver.” Strnad is from Palm Harbor, Fla.

12. DAVION TAYLOR, Colorado (6-0 ½, 227, 4.44, 4): Taylor practiced football but didn’t play in high school because of his mother’s religious beliefs (Seventh-Day Adventist). He played two years at a junior college before starting at star LB in a 3-4 defense in 2018-’19. “He’s raw but, man, athletically, he’s probably as good as anybody in this group,” one scout said. “At the end of the day, he might be as good of a player as anybody other than Simmons. You’ve just got to be a little patient with him. He’s not going to start right away. Maybe you can put him on the field in sub the first year and he’ll be a really good (special) teams guy. Man, he is fast.” He’s not a quick study and just hasn’t played enough football. “You talk about a guy that’s gonna make it on special teams,” another scout said. “He can’t process. He’s never played stack (LB). He’s a JC guy. But I’ll guarantee you one thing: he’s not getting out of the fourth round.” He finished with 144 tackles (20 ½ for loss) and was an outstanding sprinter for the Buffaloes’ track team. “Better athlete than football player,” said a third scout. “He’s not very instinctive. It’s not his fault.” Taylor is from Magnolia, Miss.

13. TANNER MUSE, Clemson (6-2, 226, 4.39, 4-5): Last April, the combine scout estimated his 40 time at 4.75. In a shocker, Muse ran sub-4.4 in Indianapolis. “I didn’t see that 4.39 on tape,” said one scout. “I thought he was stiff and slow. He’s not a safety. He’s got instincts, and he’s a tough guy. He doesn’t have vision. Unathletic, stiff. Free agent. You’d have to try him at linebacker.” Muse started for three years at FS but is now viewed more as a subpackage LB. “He’s real stiff but God, he ran 4.41 (on the scout’s watch) and he’s got a square jaw,” said a second scout. “There were times where Simmons races across the field and overruns and whiffs badly, and then Muse, who is stiff as a board, squares the guy up and tackles him. How does that happen? One’s gonna go top 10 and the other one’s an afterthought.” His Wonderlic score of 26 was the highest at the position. His final stats included 237 tackles (10 ½ for loss), six interceptions and 22 passes defensed. Said a third scout: “I imagine he could go in the third now. Look at his size-speed ratio. He does play well in the box. He tackles well. I had no idea he’d run a 4.4.” Muse is from Belmont, N.C.

14. TROY DYE, Oregon (6-3 ½, 237, no 40, 4-5): Dye played 87.5 percent of the defensive snaps from 2016-’19 as a WLB. “He’s not a take-on guy at all,” said one scout. “He can pick up backs and tight ends and run with them. To his detriment, he played most of this year with a big club on his right hand (broken thumb). I like the guy a lot, but he’s just not real physical. He’s not a big person.” Finished with 397 tackles (44 for loss), 15 sacks, five interceptions, three forced fumbles and 21 passes defensed. “He’s like that nickel linebacker that comes in on passing downs,” a second scout said. “He just has a knack in coverage. He does need to get bigger and stronger.” Underwent arthroscopic knee surgery in January and couldn’t work at the combine. “He gets the ball,” said a third scout. “He plays long. There’s a little bit of finesse to his game, and it frustrates you at times. But most of the time those guys get more physical. They figure out they need to be more physical as a pro. They can’t just run around. I was thinking second or third round. Because of the injury, I could see him getting to the fourth and eventually becoming a starter and being a really good pick if he gets his head on and eats.” Dye is from Norco, Calif.

15. SHAUN BRADLEY, Temple (6-0 ½, 235, 4.49, 5): Bradley grayshirted at a junior college in 2015, backed up in ’16 and started 38 games from 2017-’19 at MLB. “He is a really good athlete,” one scout said. “Instinctive, plays hard. Just that modern-day space linebacker. He can cover a lot of ground. Liked him a lot.” His production would have been much better if he were a more reliable tackler. Finished with 256 tackles (22 for loss), three interceptions and three forced fumbles. “I did not see a 4.5 guy on tape,” a second scout said. “At all. Ever. I thought he played real lackadaisical for a guy that had a single digit (jersey number 5) at Temple. Those guys are supposed to be bad asses. I didn’t see a guy that deserved to have a single digit.” Bradley is from Mt. Holly, N.J.

OTHERS, in order: Mykal Walker, Fresno State; Cam Brown, Penn State; Kamal Martin, Minnesota; Chapelle Russell, Temple; Evan Weaver, California; Shaquille Quarterman, Miami; Francis Bernard, Utah; Khaleke Hudson, Michigan; David Woodward, Utah State; Markus Bailey, Purdue; Joe Bachie, Michigan State; Jordan Glasgow, Michigan; Dante Olson, Montana.
Omg how are some of these scouts still employed.e.g. Murray ->He didn’t cover there. but I think he can. Think, really? You either know it or you don't. but he’s not a physical tackler...Seriously, haven't they watched him slamming down RBs? smh
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
Omg how are some of these scouts still employed.e.g. Murray ->He didn’t cover there. but I think he can. Think, really? You either know it or you don't. but he’s not a physical tackler...Seriously, haven't they watched him slamming down RBs? smh
agree, not sure how they don't see these things. Hopefully they are watching WAY more tape than we are. Now I don't think he's as bad as we make him on these boards, but now he's more athlete than football player and has sideline to sideline abilities, but they are projecting too much.

I tend to be someone who doesn't think anything is as good or as bad as it seems. We are probably looking at someone who is going to be drafted by another team and become a pro bowl player for years to come. lmao
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Murrays athleticism can blind you from the truth.

i think the thing with murray as well is that he flashes and draws your attention when you watch other players tape in the games he plays in - when you dont watch him snap-to-snap he looks like a superstar because he pops off the screen

perhaps this is all coming from those combine interviews where teams feel comfortable that a lot of the read-mistakes etc. come from oklahoma coaching and not murray's processing etc.

but coverage is so often about feel so there's no way you can project that when a guy hasnt done it at all
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
Interesting take -- also from Bob McGinn's series

NFL executive in personnel: “I think everyone there (LSU) is going to get overdrafted because of the year they had. Not that they’re not good players. But I just think that every player that’s going in the second round would usually be a third.”

idk that they'll get overdrafted per se - but there might be one or two who seemingly fall to where they should have been originally
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
idk that they'll get overdrafted per se - but there might be one or two who seemingly fall to where they should have been originally
well this was just one scouts opinion, so there is that.

BTW, the closer we get to the draft, the more I feel we WON'T be drafting Murray and I may end up taking him off my guess the picks game also. I'll make that decision in the next couple of days.
 
i think the thing with murray as well is that he flashes and draws your attention when you watch other players tape in the games he plays in - when you dont watch him snap-to-snap he looks like a superstar because he pops off the screen

perhaps this is all coming from those combine interviews where teams feel comfortable that a lot of the read-mistakes etc. come from oklahoma coaching and not murray's processing etc.

but coverage is so often about feel so there's no way you can project that when a guy hasnt done it at all
Murray doesn’t understand coverage, he keeps everything in front of him. If you call attacking a RB in the flat as “coverage” skills it would be a mistake.
 

Edgar

Ravens Ring of Honor
i find it really interesting just how high you are on alaka - why do you think he went udfa last year?
I'm sure it was coverage and probably a bit of slowness in reads at times.It could be just me but I think he goes in round three this year if he comes out. (came out as a junior). He's great taking on and getting off blocks ...throws his body around. physical...good tackler.
 

cdp

Ravens Ring of Honor

My guy Markus Bailey. I recommend watching his 2018 tape (e.g. OSU). He's got an extremely high football IQ, he gets easily off blocks, good inital punch and he's a secure tackler. He even uses a spin move from time to time.He's better in zone than most of the other guys in this class and I'd say he's an effective blitzer. Change of direction in man coverage is subpar, questionable backpaddle and he's not the athlete like Murray is.
 
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