not a good comparison and I agree with him being top 3.
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The Random Thought Thread
- Thread starter The Greek
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ndub
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Lmao
Harbaugh is a very good leader and has kept us competitive even in the years following the Super Bowl. Yes we went 3 years without going to the playoffs, but look at the injuries we had during those years and the lack of depth during those times, yet we were competitive until the last week, outside of 2015 being he only outlier.
rmcjacket23
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No, its that the really good one's almost universally have holes in their resume that make them look unflattering for at least multi-year periods. Belichick is probably the only one who doesn't have that.
rmcjacket23
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Well, two different things here...
If we're actually listening to what FANS want, then we would have a new HC every other season, and we would have at least 38 offensive coordinators in the Harbaugh era. Positional coaches or coordinators get the "fire him" treatment from fans on a literal weekly basis. They're not even allowed to have one bad game, let a lone a bad season. Like I remember when Juan Castillo was literally the reason we lost a bunch of games. Not players, not head coaches, not even coordinators. A positional offensive line coach was to blame for all of our failures. That was a real thing. I called that "the ultimate low point" of fan intellect.
Two years of missed playoffs for any fanbase pretty much leads to immediate termination, no questions asked, by the fanbase. Which is a textbook example of why Owners never seek out fan advice for personnel decisions.
As for how John actually saved his job, well drafting Lamar itself was step #1. He wasn't the ultimate decision maker, but he was absolutely onboard with Eric's vision and they collaborated on it. Step #2 was transitioning to Lamar mid-season and not going back, when he easily could have.
Since that point, for the last two years, there's obviously no logical reason to suggest firing John.
ThatsMyJoeTerback
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Is there really an argument against the fact that a coach is only as good as the sum of their parts?
You'll probably find that a lot of coaches are not good simply by looking at a win/loss record
You'll probably find that a lot of coaches are not good simply by looking at a win/loss record
but he also had that palaver when he joined the pats where he made himself look untrustworthy and possibly unhireable if he hadnt succeeded in the pats job
ndub
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All I know is he is not a top 3 coach unless and until he can start coaching his team to some Ws in the playoffs. That's a fact. And I will leave this conversation now, because obviously there is no getting through the purple kool-aid drinkers when it comes to certain people on this team
rmcjacket23
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I mean I personally find "rankings" of generally all kinds to be pretty boring, and to me, if he's not top 3, he's like top 6, and I think it would be hard to argue outside of that. And I don't have much interest in discussing the intricacies or differences between the 3rd best coach or the 6th best coach, mostly because you won't find many.
ndub
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Agreed. I’m just not onboard with the crazy HOF talks some people spew out
are you talking current really good ones or historically. Just need a little clarity.
I haven't really thought about it, but if he has another super bowl win, than he ends up being the second coach in NFL history to win a Super Bowl with two different starting QBs. Joe Gibbs was the other one and he did it with three QBs.
ndub
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Lol man you’re coming up with the jokes today! Thank you I needed it
rmcjacket23
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Well, candidly, I've never heard that or even really thought about it. The bar for head coaches in the HOF is absurdly high quite frankly.
That being said, if the next 2-3 years are even mildly comparable to what we saw in the Lamar era (which I have no reason to think they will be much different), he will almost certainly have a better resume than Bill Cowher, who is getting enshrined this year.
Currently, their regular season winnings %s are virtually identical, they both have a SB ring (though Cowher did go to two of them), and Cowher only has one more playoff win than John. And the reality is, if he continues like he's gone so far, John could easily coach 10-15 more years. He'll be 59 this season. Coaching to 70 isn't exactly an outrageous though. He would easily likely blow past 200+ regular season wins, likely have a win % above 60%, and who knows what will happen with future playoff success.
But realistically, short of like a streak of several years of losing seasons that sends him to unemployment, there aren't many ways where his resume is going to be worse than Bill Cowhers. I could also put him up against Marv Levy, who never won a SB (though he did make 4, which is incredible to me), but will fall well short of John's success in terms of wins, playoff wins, etc. when its all said and done.
The issue is that it seemingly takes coaches a long time to get enshrined. Belichick will be first ballot, but Bill Cowher has taken 15 years to get in. It took Levy 14 years, and it took Jimmy Johnson over 20 years I believe.
rmcjacket23
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Active coaches
ndub
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I agree with all of this
ndub
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Another random question: for Tyus Bowser, why don't we play him more at ILB and switch him around for Queen? Queen is a pretty good pass rusher (I'd say better than Bowser to be honest), but not so good at coverage which Bowser excels at. I'm not saying permanent change and I'm not saying even 50-50 even split. But I don't see why we can't get Queen on the outside and Bowser on the inside at least 10-15% of the time.
rmcjacket23
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A second SB would likely get him in the HOF I think.
There's 13 coaches all-time with multiple SBs. Ignore Belichick, who's still active.
Of the other 12, 9 of them have been elected to the HOF.
George Seifert, Mike Shanahan, and Tom Coughlin are the only three coaches with multiple SB rings that aren't in the HOF.
Shanahan and Coughlin very well may end up getting in, because as I said earlier, as history suggests, it can take 10-20 years before these guys get in. Shanahan last coached in 2013, and Coughlin in 2015, so they may have a ways to go. I think Coughlin has a great shot to get in, but Shanahan's may be a bit wider. After the back to back SB wins in Denver, he won one playoff game over the next 14 seasons.
George Seifert is an interesting case. His time in SF was almost unmatched by anybody. In 8 years, he won 77% of his games, had 10 playoff wins, two SB championships, and 5 conference championship appearances. In the grand scheme of things, he didn't coach very long (11 seasons) and he also sucked badly in Carolina for three years at the end of his career.
But moral of the story is... a 2nd SB ring would put John very much in the "heavily favored" conversation to make the HOF.
i mean bowser already plays a significant amount of snaps in the middle of the defence... he's just normally lined up at the LoS rather than off the ball
and we dont put queen outside because he's best as a rusher/blitzer (so far in his young career) rushing and sniping inside
it's also important that bowser's usage (and partly why he's so good) is the flexibility that he creates in the defence and the way that he has to be accounted for both as a rusher and a dropper...
on a more fundamental level - we dont play him at ILB because he's an OLB and that's what he's good at...
and we don't play queen at EDGE because he's not an edge rusher and wouldn't survive there in the running game either
but if you were to ask me whether queen could/would rush/blitz more and if bowser would drop into coverage more - i think you'd be surprised to find that they might not be far off what you're thinking of already
wink's defence is all about deception and queen and bowser currently offer more deception at the positions they play than if they swapped (and that's before you get into anything else)
ndub
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Thanks for the well thought out response. I agree, and I guess if they were to just blitz Queen more and give Bowser some more of those coverage responsibilities, they’d be using them like I have in mind