The Random Thought Thread

[rmcjacket23]

2020 was much better with Queen vastly improving, JK Dobbins, Madubuike and contributors in Duvernay, Proche and Stone. Not sure what is going to happen with Tyre Phillips.

Better, but I wouldn't say much better yet.

Queen isn't a bust, but for a first round pick, I expect pretty close to a three down linebacker in that spot. I know he's playing better on the weak side, but I still think that's a bit of a disappointment long term for the price you paid for him.
No issue really with Dobbins or Madubuike.
Harrison is pretty much a bust at this point, Tyre is a liability outside and hasn't really gotten a chance to hammer down inside, and Duvernay is just kind of "meh" for me. He's not getting much PT on offense and so you basically just used a third rounder on a kick returner.

I can't really criticize Proche or Stone, as they're role players and were drafted late, but I wouldn't consider them impact players. I go back a couple years earlier and you get guys like Elliott, Clark, and Bozeman in similar spots.

 

[Charm City]

Better, but I wouldn't say much better yet.

Queen isn't a bust, but for a first round pick, I expect pretty close to a three down linebacker in that spot. I know he's playing better on the weak side, but I still think that's a bit of a disappointment long term for the price you paid for him.
No issue really with Dobbins or Madubuike.
Harrison is pretty much a bust at this point, Tyre is a liability outside and hasn't really gotten a chance to hammer down inside, and Duvernay is just kind of "meh" for me. He's not getting much PT on offense and so you basically just used a third rounder on a kick returner.

I can't really criticize Proche or Stone, as they're role players and were drafted late, but I wouldn't consider them impact players. I go back a couple years earlier and you get guys like Elliott, Clark, and Bozeman in similar spots.

I think we’re going to see a lot more of Stone moving forward if Elliot leaves like we’re all expecting him to. Stone was second in line for the green dot after Clark which tells me the FO likes what they are seeing. If we don’t draft a FS early I’m expecting Stone to get the start with Stephens playing more of a nickel/dime backer role and moving around the field since he is more versatile.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I think we’re going to see a lot more of Stone moving forward if Elliot leaves like we’re all expecting him to. Stone was second in line for the green dot after Clark which tells me the FO likes what they are seeing. If we don’t draft a FS early I’m expecting Stone to get the start with Stephens playing more of a nickel/dime backer role and moving around the field since he is more versatile.

I think there will be competition, but I'd be surprised if Stephens doesn't win that role. I'm not surprised to see Stone get the green dot while Clark is out, because I think he's certainly better for that role than a rookie.

If there's no additions, I would expect Stephens to start over Stone, with Stone being the primary backup.

My gut tells me Safety is a higher priority on the offseason list than fans may think it is. Though I know social media has been clamoring for Honey Badger for weeks now.

 

[RavensMania]

Better, but I wouldn't say much better yet.

Queen isn't a bust, but for a first round pick, I expect pretty close to a three down linebacker in that spot. I know he's playing better on the weak side, but I still think that's a bit of a disappointment long term for the price you paid for him.
No issue really with Dobbins or Madubuike.
Harrison is pretty much a bust at this point, Tyre is a liability outside and hasn't really gotten a chance to hammer down inside, and Duvernay is just kind of "meh" for me. He's not getting much PT on offense and so you basically just used a third rounder on a kick returner.

I can't really criticize Proche or Stone, as they're role players and were drafted late, but I wouldn't consider them impact players. I go back a couple years earlier and you get guys like Elliott, Clark, and Bozeman in similar spots.

Elliott and Clark didn't do much their first couple years either. Just to clarify, I didn't call Proche and Stone impact players, just contributors and would suspect if Proche had more PT he would be a bit more than a contributor, but we can't say that for sure just yet.

I'd also agree Queen needs to become a 3 down backer to end being worth the spot he was drafted. I'm hoping he has another big jump in year 3.

 

[rossihunter2]

EDC not gonna be happy looking at his first draft class at this point

Hollywood Brown
Jaylon Ferguson
Miles Boykin
Justice Hill
Ben Powers
Iman Marshall
Daylon Mack
Trace McSorley

He got one really good one in Hollywood. One eh starter in Powers. 3 rotational guys at best in Ferguson, Boykin, and Hill. And the last 3 are complete non factors, although Marshall has been robbed due to injuries.

they did at least also bring in pat mekari that year as a udfa

but also that's a tough first class given he didnt have a 2nd round pick (and had fewer picks than we normally have to work with) - maybe the best decision he made that year was not giving up whatever it was going to take to go up and steal cody ford from the bills

that whole class though wasn't great and fell off dramatically after the 2nd round - and we only had 1 pick in the top 80 that year - that whole class seems in hindsight to be WRs and not much else - tbh even once you got out of the 1st round - the top talent was basically WRs, elgton jenkins and maxx crosby - you obviously want to get more out of a class than 1 starter and some rotational guys but looking at what other teams got out of it, and the fact that we got mekari as a udfa definitely helps in context

 

[rossihunter2]

Ain't a ton to like about the 2020 draft class as of now either. Queen played well down the stretch but certainly isn't the three down MLB we were hoping, Dobbins looks very good but obviously got injured, and the rest is just meh. I like Madubuike but he's not an impact player, Duvernay is basically just a kick returner, and we're getting very little out of anybody else.

What I think is notable, even including the 2021 draft, is that in 3 years, DeCosta really hasn't done much on day 3. Ben Powers has probably been the most impactful day 3 pick in the three years of his tenure.

I understand Eric was likely running the draft long before he fully took over the reigns, but we would usually get a pretty good player (or sometimes 2) on day 3 in a lot of previous drafts.

'18 we got Averett, Bozeman, and Elliott. Some later bloomers there, but critical players for us last year for sure
'17 we got Chuck Clark
'16 we got Tavon and Judon
'15 we got ZaDarius and Boyle (and Waller)

In the short span he's been full time GM, feels like we're improving on day 1, but doing worse on day 3, where we have a lot more picks.

some context there is that 2 of his 3 draft classes have been affected by covid - which he himself has admitted has meant they've struggled to get comfortable with some of the non-power-5 conference prospects because it was much harder to get reliable information health-wise, measurements-wise etc.

the judons and the jensens and the seilers and the boyles and some of the udfa guys we've found success with have been somewhat unavailable to him in the last 2 years because of that

and hard to count out the day 3 guys from 2020 and 2021 (the ones still on the roster at least lol) - we've seen improvement in year 2 from some of those 2020 day 3 guys especially... geno stone, james proche, broderick washington have all contributed and while unspectacular have become reliable rotational pieces - if we dont add a safety this offseason, i fully expect geno to be the dimebacker and earn snaps there after he played well in relief this year

and the 2021 class is disappointing on day 3 so far but we've seen some hints in tylan wallace's usage late in the year that he potentially figures into their plans in 11 personnel (which makes him basically a starter) and he's definitely going to be contributing on special teams which i realise isnt sexy but heyho - and daelin hayes obviously missed the year because of injury but showed promise when he was on the field

the adage is that you cant really evaluate a draft class until year 3 - and we've only just finally got to year 3 of his 1st draft class

there's still significant opportunity in 2022 for the 2020 class to kick on and make this seem silly - queen, dobbins and madubuike are all starters already, duvernay's contributed (and is now a pro bowl returner) albeit not earned significant starting snaps, and we have contributions from 3 day 3 guys - and that's without even including tyre phillips who has played significant snaps (unfortunately has got injured at inopportune moments and played out of position) - but it's not inconceivable that we have 4 starters and multiple rotational pieces coming out of the 2020 class in 2022 - by all accounts that would be a fantastic outcome for a draft class

 

[rossihunter2]

I think there will be competition, but I'd be surprised if Stephens doesn't win that role. I'm not surprised to see Stone get the green dot while Clark is out, because I think he's certainly better for that role than a rookie.

If there's no additions, I would expect Stephens to start over Stone, with Stone being the primary backup.

My gut tells me Safety is a higher priority on the offseason list than fans may think it is. Though I know social media has been clamoring for Honey Badger for weeks now.

obviously stephens is going to be the starter over stone - but stone earned snaps in dime last year and performed well enough that he should probably get more in 2022 - there's no reason why he cant potentially be the next day 3 safety in the special teams --> dimebacker --> starter pipeline we've had going the last few years

and i agree that i think the ravens probably want to add another safety and it's certainly possible they will but idk that they'll feel particularly bad if stone has to play snaps in 2022 because they couldnt get one - i think they want to be able to move chuck down into the box in dime and i think they want to be able to use stephens as a multiple backend defender and potential matchup weapon and finding a high quality safety would allow them to do those things more for sure - but i think they're happy with stone as the backup "strong" safety

 

[rossihunter2]

Elliott and Clark didn't do much their first couple years either. Just to clarify, I didn't call Proche and Stone impact players, just contributors and would suspect if Proche had more PT he would be a bit more than a contributor, but we can't say that for sure just yet.

I'd also agree Queen needs to become a 3 down backer to end being worth the spot he was drafted. I'm hoping he has another big jump in year 3.

i think it's pretty telling that rob ryan was fired
and pretty telling that PQ seems excited about the return of both macdonald and orr

 

[UPennChem]

It's actually sad how bad Hollywood's draft class was for us. I remember a lot of us were actually decently excited

 

[rossihunter2]

It's actually sad how bad Hollywood's draft class was for us. I remember a lot of us were actually decently excited

that's what happens when both your day 2 picks are late in the 3rd and both of them bust...

 

[rmcjacket23]

It's actually sad how bad Hollywood's draft class was for us. I remember a lot of us were actually decently excited

In fairness, I really don't recall many, if any, drafts where fans universally were like "wow, this is total shit". Fans typically hype up drafts no matter who we pick. May not like every pick, but I've never seen anybody shit all over our entire class.
I still remember cringing when Mel Kiper gave the Ravens his best draft grade after day 2 of the 2010 draft, where we traded out of the first round to get Kindle and Cody (both I think were viewed as first round talents). I don't think I've seen him praise us nearly as much since that one. Easily one of the worst drafts in Ravens history.

 

[UPennChem]

that's what happens when both your day 2 picks are late in the 3rd and both of them bust...

For me its more about most of us thinking Ferguson was a mistake and the trade up for Boykin.

 

[UPennChem]

In fairness, I really don't recall many, if any, drafts where fans universally were like "wow, this is total shit". Fans typically hype up drafts no matter who we pick. May not like every pick, but I've never seen anybody shit all over our entire class.
I still remember cringing when Mel Kiper gave the Ravens his best draft grade after day 2 of the 2010 draft, where we traded out of the first round to get Kindle and Cody (both I think were viewed as first round talents). I don't think I've seen him praise us nearly as much since that one. Easily one of the worst drafts in Ravens history.

You're not wrong. I think Ferguson and Boykin are the main thing. Like many people were not excited by either of them. And then we traded up for Boykin. Fans had to hope that the small school productiob would transfer and that Boykins measurable were worth the trade up. Both were big mistakes

 

[rossihunter2]

For me its more about most of us thinking Ferguson was a mistake and the trade up for Boykin.

i cant pretend that i didnt completely miss on ferguson that year and boykin was one of the few times i had absolutely no idea what was going on lol... had a 6th round grade on him

 

[Simba]

i cant pretend that i didnt completely miss on ferguson that year and boykin was one of the few times i had absolutely no idea what was going on lol... had a 6th round grade on him

I think we all kind of "accepted" Boykin because we just hired a new WR coach in Culley and thought this was the perfect moldable guy. But alas, a lot of those early intuitions ended up being correct.

 

[rossihunter2]

fun little bonus wired segment

it's cool watching how amazed herbert was on that 1st TD with the way andrews adjusted and changed his route - like you could see herbert's eyes and almost in real time see him going "i need my team to get me one of these"

shows you just how intelligent mark is, and just how important it is that he and lamar are on the same page and read stuff the same way because you know the passing offence is basically designed for him (and hollywood too) to basically make judgement calls and find space and adjust mid-play to the coverage

 

[rossihunter2]

I think we all kind of "accepted" Boykin because we just hired a new WR coach in Culley and thought this was the perfect moldable guy. But alas, a lot of those early intuitions ended up being correct.

it's funny because i liked a lot of those picks over the draft weekend

hollywood was just about the most "my guy" a ravens pick has ever been (between him and madubuike for that honour), i was (wrongly) quite high on ferguson, i hated the boykin pick but could buy into the traits, justice hill was someone i liked a lot, there were guys i liked more than ben powers but thought he was a pretty good pick there, iman marshall i was pumped about, had no idea who daylon mack was and thought the mcsorely pick was a pretty decent shot in the dark to take as a backup QB project

and then i was pretty excited when we got antoine wesley as a udfa - he had a 4th round grade from me... and obviously pat mekari was a massive bonus to that rookie class but it's funny that he only made the team because he converted to IOL but has actually been a godsend for this team at his original tackle spot

obviously it did not turn out well but i actually thought there were quite a few nice lottery tickets in that class (with the obvious proviso that it was always going to be a tough draft because we had less capital than we had since probably the 2010 draft and in a - with hindsight - generally poor class for most teams)

 

[Simba]

it's funny because i liked a lot of those picks over the draft weekend

hollywood was just about the most "my guy" a ravens pick has ever been (between him and madubuike for that honour), i was (wrongly) quite high on ferguson, i hated the boykin pick but could buy into the traits, justice hill was someone i liked a lot, there were guys i liked more than ben powers but thought he was a pretty good pick there, iman marshall i was pumped about, had no idea who daylon mack was and thought the mcsorely pick was a pretty decent shot in the dark to take as a backup QB project

and then i was pretty excited when we got antoine wesley as a udfa - he had a 4th round grade from me... and obviously pat mekari was a massive bonus to that rookie class but it's funny that he only made the team because he converted to IOL but has actually been a godsend for this team at his original tackle spot

obviously it did not turn out well but i actually thought there were quite a few nice lottery tickets in that class (with the obvious proviso that it was always going to be a tough draft because we had less capital than we had since probably the 2010 draft and in a - with hindsight - generally poor class for most teams)

Yeah it's kinda funny looking back. Hollywood, Hill, and Marshall were my favorite picks. Then everyone else was kinda in the eh category for me. Definitely was probably a little too high on Ferguson, but I didn't love him like some people or hate him like some people. But like usual, I always look for the positives when we pick a guy so my posts here are probably a lot more positive than what they were in my head lol.

 

[rossihunter2]

Yeah it's kinda funny looking back. Hollywood, Hill, and Marshall were my favorite picks. Then everyone else was kinda in the eh category for me. Definitely was probably a little too high on Ferguson, but I didn't love him like some people or hate him like some people. But like usual, I always look for the positives when we pick a guy so my posts here are probably a lot more positive than what they were in my head lol.

one of the "downsides" of going deep into the draft classes is that i do find it harder to get excited about guys we draft if i didnt like them on film - but especially with day 3 guys, even if i dont love the player, it's hard not to find redeeming qualities in any pick

shaun wade is a case in point - he was one of my lowest graded "draftable" prospects last year - and he was mostly just draftable based on athletic testing and a decent penultimate year - i didnt like the prospect but i still didnt hate the pick because i can see why they made it and what might come out of it

very few times ive been actively pissed off about a pick - i was furious about us picking chris wormley in 2017 and in part that was because i really wanted tim williams... who we drafted 4 picks later lol

other than that - jaleel scott i wasnt happy about because i didnt understand it at all, hayden hurst i was pissed off about but that was more about who was still on the board than about hurst himself

but on a fundamental level, it doesnt matter how objective we are... we're still fans and we're not going to root against our team and the guys who join our team

 

[RavensMania]

one of the "downsides" of going deep into the draft classes is that i do find it harder to get excited about guys we draft if i didnt like them on film - but especially with day 3 guys, even if i dont love the player, it's hard not to find redeeming qualities in any pick

shaun wade is a case in point - he was one of my lowest graded "draftable" prospects last year - and he was mostly just draftable based on athletic testing and a decent penultimate year - i didnt like the prospect but i still didnt hate the pick because i can see why they made it and what might come out of it

very few times ive been actively pissed off about a pick - i was furious about us picking chris wormley in 2017 and in part that was because i really wanted tim williams... who we drafted 4 picks later lol

other than that - jaleel scott i wasnt happy about because i didnt understand it at all, hayden hurst i was pissed off about but that was more about who was still on the board than about hurst himself

but on a fundamental level, it doesnt matter how objective we are... we're still fans and we're not going to root against our team and the guys who join our team

I'm glad we were able to turn Wade into a better draft pick in 2022. Made that a win in my books and. a much deeper class.