The Random Thought Thread

[SaltyDog]

I mean is it though? Like that opportunity is only valuable if its successful. If they put Reggie Wayne in there and he goes 1-7, he's not getting any calls for a HC gig for a long, long, long time. Maybe never again. He'll have to go through several different levels to get there.
And realistically, its same thing with Saturday. He's not out there calling plays, so if the Colts fail in his tenure (and I think they will), he's not going to be getting a lot of coaching opportunities elsewhere in the Pros. As an assistant, maybe, but his next coaching gig is 100% a demotion.

Had this happened when the Colts had like an open-hiring process after the season was over, then sure, there should be a lot of pissed off people. But realistically, the # of people that could have gotten this job was limited to those within the organization. That pretty much immediately reduces the minority candidate pool to very small numbers.

Would also point out that I think its a much easier path to higher coaching positions for ex-players, and I'm not surprised when somebody like a Saturday doesn't want to be an assistant coach. It sucks. Tons of hours, lots of stress, not really a lot of pay, and its significantly less pay than a lot of these guys made as players. And they're working more than players do in most cases.

Like how many assistant coaching jobs did Deion Sanders have? Like Ed Reed's been openly talking about coaching for a long, long time now, and he could only stomach one year as an assistant DB coach.

The opportunity is everything. Saturday got the opportunity. What did he do to earn it? Just because he was a pro bowl player doesn’t automatically = great coach. I.,e., Ed Reed, Dion, etc.

i agree that success will be the final determination of who will be there in the future, that’s always the bar, but you will never win the job if you don’t get the opportunity. i mean we can all assume that the Colts are going to lose out but so far Saturday is 1-0.
I would be willing to bet that any assistant who was offered that job would have taken it, and then worried about next year, well next year. It’s an opportunity that only a few get.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Primetime games are def guaranteed to be more pressure on a player .. idk how one can think that more eyes being on you doesnt cause for more pressure. I mean thats not just with football, its with everything. Probably doesnt apply to guys like brady and me lmao but thats a different story

So Lamar has more pressure on him playing Carolina on a Thursday night than playing Cincinnati on a Sunday afternoon? Yeah, no, not close. You'll be in the very, very, very small minority of people who think that way.

As far as more eyeballs, they don't actually see the eyeballs. NFL stadiums have a finite number of people in them, they're normally full, and a lot of these guys played in college stadiums with more eyeballs. Not to mention they've been playing in front of crowds this size for a long, long time now in most cases.

 

[rmcjacket23]

The opportunity is everything. Saturday got the opportunity. What did he do to earn it? Just because he was a pro bowl player doesn’t automatically = great coach. I.,e., Ed Reed, Dion, etc.

i agree that success will be the final determination of who will be there in the future, that’s always the bar, but you will never win the job if you don’t get the opportunity. i mean we can all assume that the Colts are going to lose out but so far Saturday is 1-0.
I would be willing to bet that any assistant who was offered that job would have taken it, and then worried about next year, well next year. It’s an opportunity that only a few get.

Right, but who are the minority coaches on that staff that had earned that opportunity either? Like if they announced Reggie Wayne as the coach, wouldn't he be basically the exact same as Saturday, i.e. somebody that isn't anywhere close to having earned a HC gig at this point?

That's sort of the overall point. Are people mad that Saturday got a shot, or are they mad because similar black coaches, who also weren't qualified, didn't get that shot? Of all the hiring I'm choosing to be outraged about in terms of "racial issues", this one might be one of the worst examples to use, given that a) they're never hiring outside the organization and b) they don't have any qualified black assistants on the roster.

If we're being realistic, if you looked at the Colts coaching staff, and identified the coaches that were "qualified" to receive this opportunity, they're 100% white. Gus Bradley is on that staff, and he's actually somebody who probably should be getting HC interviews annually, and so is John Fox, who's been a HC for a very long time.

 

[Tank]

I am on four meds for it. I have it pretty bad.

Keep it in front of you brother, and thanks again for all you do.

 

[Tank]

I didn't want to bring up the fact that we took Javorius Allen instead man lmfaoooooooooooo

Stefon's Mom was pissed big time when we didn't draft him. lol

 

[RavensMania]

Primetime games are def guaranteed to be more pressure on a player .. idk how one can think that more eyes being on you doesnt cause for more pressure. I mean thats not just with football, its with everything. Probably doesnt apply to guys like brady and me lmao but thats a different story

Deebo is the goat

 

[RavensMania]

Right, but who are the minority coaches on that staff that had earned that opportunity either? Like if they announced Reggie Wayne as the coach, wouldn't he be basically the exact same as Saturday, i.e. somebody that isn't anywhere close to having earned a HC gig at this point?

That's sort of the overall point. Are people mad that Saturday got a shot, or are they mad because similar black coaches, who also weren't qualified, didn't get that shot? Of all the hiring I'm choosing to be outraged about in terms of "racial issues", this one might be one of the worst examples to use, given that a) they're never hiring outside the organization and b) they don't have any qualified black assistants on the roster.

If we're being realistic, if you looked at the Colts coaching staff, and identified the coaches that were "qualified" to receive this opportunity, they're 100% white. Gus Bradley is on that staff, and he's actually somebody who probably should be getting HC interviews annually, and so is John Fox, who's been a HC for a very long time.

The thing about Reggie Wayne is he is currently on the coaching staff, where Jeff Saturday was working as an analyst. We are talking about an interim coach and how often are interim coaches taken from other staffs or from the street. It's not like a completely new offense is being put in place. Atleast Wayne knows the plays. Not saying either should be head coach, just Wayne should be the interim and coach if you are bypassing Bradley and Fox.

 

[rmcjacket23]

The thing about Reggie Wayne is he is currently on the coaching staff, where Jeff Saturday was working as an analyst. We are talking about an interim coach and how often are interim coaches taken from other staffs or from the street. It's not like a completely new offense is being put in place. Atleast Wayne knows the plays. Not saying either should be head coach, just Wayne should be the interim and coach if you are bypassing Bradley and Fox.

Right, so again, what's the outrage about? Is it about not hiring a minority, or is it about not hiring somebody who's qualified? Because Saturday isn't qualified, and neither is Wayne. I've seen plenty of media people and a gigantic portion of the population literally asking why they didn't hire a black coach from a different team, and it blows my mind that there's people that think that's a good idea.

The only person on that staff they could have hired that wouldn't have pissed people off is Bradley, and if I were Bradley, I want nothing to do with being an interim HC on a team like this. Dead man walking 100% of the time. Bradley probably has actual aspirations of being a HC again, and I think this job would only hinder that.

They give the job to John Fox, which they probably should have, and everybody is just going to be pissy about giving it to another old, lame duck, white guy.

Everybody else in that building realistically, doesn't have the credentials to be a HC. Includes Wayne, Saturday, etc.

 

[SaltyDog]

Right, but who are the minority coaches on that staff that had earned that opportunity either? Like if they announced Reggie Wayne as the coach, wouldn't he be basically the exact same as Saturday, i.e. somebody that isn't anywhere close to having earned a HC gig at this point?

That's sort of the overall point. Are people mad that Saturday got a shot, or are they mad because similar black coaches, who also weren't qualified, didn't get that shot? Of all the hiring I'm choosing to be outraged about in terms of "racial issues", this one might be one of the worst examples to use, given that a) they're never hiring outside the organization and b) they don't have any qualified black assistants on the roster.

If we're being realistic, if you looked at the Colts coaching staff, and identified the coaches that were "qualified" to receive this opportunity, they're 100% white. Gus Bradley is on that staff, and he's actually somebody who probably should be getting HC interviews annually, and so is John Fox, who's been a HC for a very long time.

At least Wayne is already on the staff. The point about being qualified is moot if you don’t get an opportunity. No one, who hasn’t already been a HC, is really qualified until they prove themselves. Regardless of history or skin color.

 

[rmcjacket23]

The thing about Reggie Wayne is he is currently on the coaching staff, where Jeff Saturday was working as an analyst. We are talking about an interim coach and how often are interim coaches taken from other staffs or from the street. It's not like a completely new offense is being put in place. Atleast Wayne knows the plays. Not saying either should be head coach, just Wayne should be the interim and coach if you are bypassing Bradley and Fox.

Also, me personally, I don't think Wayne is 3rd on that list at all. I won't pretend to know much about the Colts coaching staff, but just looking at the tenure and makeup of their staff, there's at least a half dozen other coaches on that staff with more "coaching experience" than Wayne. And several of them are black. And by coaching experience, I mean at least been a positional coach for more than one year. There's guys on that staff who have over a decade of coaching experience as a positional coach.

 

[RavensMania]

Right, so again, what's the outrage about? Is it about not hiring a minority, or is it about not hiring somebody who's qualified? Because Saturday isn't qualified, and neither is Wayne. I've seen plenty of media people and a gigantic portion of the population literally asking why they didn't hire a black coach from a different team, and it blows my mind that there's people that think that's a good idea.

The only person on that staff they could have hired that wouldn't have pissed people off is Bradley, and if I were Bradley, I want nothing to do with being an interim HC on a team like this. Dead man walking 100% of the time. Bradley probably has actual aspirations of being a HC again, and I think this job would only hinder that.

They give the job to John Fox, which they probably should have, and everybody is just going to be pissy about giving it to another old, lame duck, white guy.

Everybody else in that building realistically, doesn't have the credentials to be a HC. Includes Wayne, Saturday, etc.

I agree that Wayne isn't qualified, but atleast he's on the staff. I believe Bradley would have been the best option as Interim HC and I'm not sure that would have hindered him. It's not like he hired the assistants on that team.

I also agree that Wayne isn't 3rd on that team, I only used Wayne because you mentioned him in your post and I knew he was WR coach.

 

[rmcjacket23]

At least Wayne is already on the staff. The point about being qualified is moot if you don’t get an opportunity. No one, who hasn’t already been a HC, is really qualified until they prove themselves. Regardless of history or skin color.

Sure, but the qualifications would normally start as like a positional coach, then as a coordinator. Like people can complain about the measuring stick of "resume", but the overwhelming majority of HC's in this league have been positional coaches and coordinators. Some didn't spend 10 years doing each, and some have risen faster than others, but the list of guys who went from "assistant WR coach" to HC in one year is, I would guess, zero.

Jeff Saturday isn't qualified for this job, but Reggie Wayne sure as shit isn't either. If the argument is "well he's more qualified than Saturday", sure, I guess. That measuring stick is also less than one year of additional credentials, and we're literally picking like the 10th most qualified person over the 11th. Like is that really the outrage spot people want to pick for criticizing lack of opportunities for black coaches?

 

[rmcjacket23]

I agree that Wayne isn't qualified, but atleast he's on the staff. I believe Bradley would have been the best option as Interim HC and I'm not sure that would have hindered him. It's not like he hired the assistants on that team.

I also agree that Wayne isn't 3rd on that team, I only used Wayne because you mentioned him in your post and I knew he was WR coach.

I mean people can say its the opportunity that matters, but for Bradley, if he takes over this job, and they go 1-6 or 2-5, how is that good for him? How does that make him more appealing to other teams? The only way he looks great is if they win, and I personally don't think there's a coach on this planet that would get that group to win enough, because its not a good group of players. And if he did perform well, all that means is Irsay offers him the job, so he doesn't even get looks from other teams.

If I'm Bradley, I'm focusing 100% on putting out the best defense I can put out. If they lose because of ineptness on offense, which is mostly why they're losing, I'm largely absolved of that as the DC. The minute I become interim HC, that's at least partially on me.

 

[RavensMania]

I mean people can say its the opportunity that matters, but for Bradley, if he takes over this job, and they go 1-6 or 2-5, how is that good for him? How does that make him more appealing to other teams? The only way he looks great is if they win, and I personally don't think there's a coach on this planet that would get that group to win enough, because its not a good group of players. And if he did perform well, all that means is Irsay offers him the job, so he doesn't even get looks from other teams.

If I'm Bradley, I'm focusing 100% on putting out the best defense I can put out. If they lose because of ineptness on offense, which is mostly why they're losing, I'm largely absolved of that as the DC. The minute I become interim HC, that's at least partially on me.

you just said it yourself. There isn't a coach on this planet that wouold geet that group to win enough and I'm sure people interviewing him for a coaching job would see that as well.

 

[rossihunter2]

Also, me personally, I don't think Wayne is 3rd on that list at all. I won't pretend to know much about the Colts coaching staff, but just looking at the tenure and makeup of their staff, there's at least a half dozen other coaches on that staff with more "coaching experience" than Wayne. And several of them are black. And by coaching experience, I mean at least been a positional coach for more than one year. There's guys on that staff who have over a decade of coaching experience as a positional coach.

the reason people are pissed is because irsay literally talked about how he looked at former players for whatever reason and used that as his justification for bypassing everyone else on his staff

and that's the main reason why people are pissed about them not hiring reggie wayne - because based on irsay's own justifications it made more sense - no one would care if they hired bradley or fox - that's literally what they would have been expected to do and should have done

 

[SaltyDog]

Sure, but the qualifications would normally start as like a positional coach, then as a coordinator. Like people can complain about the measuring stick of "resume", but the overwhelming majority of HC's in this league have been positional coaches and coordinators. Some didn't spend 10 years doing each, and some have risen faster than others, but the list of guys who went from "assistant WR coach" to HC in one year is, I would guess, zero.

Jeff Saturday isn't qualified for this job, but Reggie Wayne sure as shit isn't either. If the argument is "well he's more qualified than Saturday", sure, I guess. That measuring stick is also less than one year of additional credentials, and we're literally picking like the 10th most qualified person over the 11th. Like is that really the outrage spot people want to pick for criticizing lack of opportunities for black coaches?

I mean Saturday may be the best choice. We just don’t know yet. Wayne may have been a good choice. you made the point that neither are qualified. well I can neither agree nor disagree with that because I just don’t know. The point I was making is that Saturday was offered assistant positions in the past and turned them down. One would think that if he really wanted to be a HC he would have accepted those offers and “paid his dues” so to speak.

Also I don’t think anyone who wants to be a first time HC would turn down an opportunity, regardless of how shitty the team is, or whether it’s an interim job or otherwise. I will agree that wins and losses would weigh heavily on future jobs. That’s just the way it is in the NFL.

 

[BoredMarine13]

the reason people are pissed is because irsay literally talked about how he looked at former players for whatever reason and used that as his justification for bypassing everyone else on his staff

and that's the main reason why people are pissed about them not hiring reggie wayne - because based on irsay's own justifications it made more sense - no one would care if they hired bradley or fox - that's literally what they would have been expected to do and should have done

nah they are pissed because he is white and due to it being an interm hire they were able to work around the rooney rule

 

[purplepittabread88]

Joe flacco is literally Anti Kirk, kinda ass during most 1pm games and then just a beast during big games and the playoffs.

Also how could you not believe in clutchness? These guys are full humans, and it’s definitely in kirks head by now that he struggles in prime time

 

[rmcjacket23]

Joe flacco is literally Anti Kirk, kinda ass during most 1pm games and then just a beast during big games and the playoffs.

Also how could you not believe in clutchness? These guys are full humans, and it’s definitely in kirks head by now that he struggles in prime time

So here's kind of where the fans lose me on this though. My question is... have fans actually looked at the data on this?
The data, though a bit misguided, would tell you its a Monday Night issue (sort of), not a primetime issue.

10-18 career record in primetime games:
2-10 on MNF
3-4 on TNF
5-4 on Saturday/Sunday Nights

So he's basically a .500 QB on Thursdays and Weekend primetime games.

At an individual level, on Saturday/Sunday night football (9 games):
Completion % above 70%
302 passing YPG
22 TDs
4 INTs
Those numbers are a lot closer to ELITE than they are to "terrible".

On MNF, where he's 2-10 now, his stats aren't great, but they're also not terrible:
63% comp pct
240 passing YPG
17 TDs
11 INTs

Now you can make the case that situationally he struggles, but these aren't numbers of a guy who plays in the fetal position for four quarters in primetime. Comically TNF has been, by far, his worst performances, yet his team's record is significantly better there than on MNF, where apparently he sucks balls all the time (though not really).

 

[Deebo813]

So here's kind of where the fans lose me on this though. My question is... have fans actually looked at the data on this?
The data, though a bit misguided, would tell you its a Monday Night issue (sort of), not a primetime issue.

10-18 career record in primetime games:
2-10 on MNF
3-4 on TNF
5-4 on Saturday/Sunday Nights

So he's basically a .500 QB on Thursdays and Weekend primetime games.

At an individual level, on Saturday/Sunday night football (9 games):
Completion % above 70%
302 passing YPG
22 TDs
4 INTs
Those numbers are a lot closer to ELITE than they are to "terrible".

On MNF, where he's 2-10 now, his stats aren't great, but they're also not terrible:
63% comp pct
240 passing YPG
17 TDs
11 INTs

Now you can make the case that situationally he struggles, but these aren't numbers of a guy who plays in the fetal position for four quarters in primetime. Comically TNF has been, by far, his worst performances, yet his team's record is significantly better there than on MNF, where apparently he sucks balls all the time (though not really).

I know you wanna ease the pain for kirk buts its undeniable at this point… he dnt perform when the lights on