so what you're saying then is basically... never hire a defensive or special teams coach as a head coach...
-
Welcome to PurpleFlock! Sign up here so that you can chat with your fellow Ravens fans.
The Random Thought Thread
- Thread starter The Greek
- Start date
so what you're saying then is basically... never hire a defensive or special teams coach as a head coach...
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
I'm not suggesting he shouldn't have a staff he wants as part of the interview. I'm saying if the team interviewing you cares as much about who you hire on your staff as they do about hiring you, then why are they hiring you?
Like you think Dallas was super happy with Mike McCarthy's staff? You can pretty much go back as far as you want... you think the Ravens don't hire John Harbaugh because he didn't bring Cam Cameron in? Hell, they basically knew they were going to lose Rex because of it, and they did.
If you like the HC enough to hire him, all you're doing is trusting him to bring in a staff that works. He can hire them on day 1 or day 30. It really doesn't matter.
That's my entire point. I don't see a single team in this league being like "yes, we're going to hire Wink, and we'll trust him to hire a good OC whenever he decides to do it".
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
No, I'm saying you should hire the coach because you think he will actually be a good HC, and that you think anybody he hires as coach will be a good coach. Meaning... they shouldn't care if he has an OC during the interview. Just like if you are an offensive coach, they shouldn't care if you have a strong DC to hang your hat on during an interview.
You hire the coach because you think he will be a good coach. Not because you think he'll hire strong assistants.
i just dont get why it is you feel so strongly that way - why do you think he wouldnt be seen as that sort of HC candidate?
just because he happens to already have an idea of a potential staff around him?
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
OK, so why wasn't he hired in prior years? What's happened in 2020 that's elevated his status any higher than it was last year?
Like the defense is good? Is that the argument? Were they good in 2019, or 2018?
you seem brutally certain that wink wont be thought of as a good HC candidate in his own right
no one's suggesting that his hiring is reliant on his OC picks... just that he's already got his ideal candidates in mind
That's such a poor argument. Why wasn't Kyle Shanahan hired in the years before taking the 49ers job? It might have not been the right fit at the time for the teams looking.
he only really burst onto the scene 2 years ago as a DC and ended up interviewing last year after 2 consecutive good years...
there were only really 3 jobs available last year (5 actual openings but washington and dallas secured their guys basically before the hiring process really started)
he was interviewed by the giants...
it's not about him showing something new - it's about finding a good fit
it's like suggesting robert salah or eric bieniemy etc. wouldnt be potential hires because they didnt get jobs the previous year
what about kevin stefanski with the browns - he interviewed in 2018 didnt get a job and then got hired in 2019... to a team that rejected him the year before
the hiring of HCs in the NFL is so often about timing...
and the idea that all he brings to the table is a good defensive scheme seems ridiculous - he's well-liked by all accounts despite being known for being a disciplinarian...
i mean what qualities do you think he needs to show (that's reasonable for a coordinator to show) to get hired...
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
1. Well, wins is not a particular useful stat... to the general public. History tells us its one of the only stats that coaches seem to care about, because its literally the only thing that keeps them from getting fired. A great statistical QB on a team that doesn't win = lots and lots and lots of firings. How many head coaches, coordinators, etc. have been through Detroit in the Stafford era? How many of those guys you think are going to tell you that "winning" isn't a useful stat. It may not be useful for evaluating an individual player, but if the team doesn't win, they themselves won't be around long enough to evaluate individual players.
2. You're right... Foles isn't a good QB. He's not a bad one either. Multiple stints of high level play have shown him to be a spectacularly inconsistent, yet competent, QB. He has the same issues a lot have, which is inconsistency and not playing at a high enough level frequently enough to win. 2020 Joe Flacco is a bad QB. 2012 he was a good QB. I don't think anybody is going to argue that's because of "system", given that the "system" here wasn't very good either.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Because teams didn't like him enough to hire him. Same reason Wink hasn't gotten hired.
So if it wasn't the right fit last year, why is it a good fit this year?
I listed what I thought were the 6 obvious HC vacancies, and they may be the only one's. Where is the fit, exactly?
All I hear is "well if he hires X coach somebody will like him". OK, so why doesn't that team just skip past Wink and hire X coach then? Why do you think the Cardinals hired Kliff Kingsbury? They kept trying to figure out how to hire a HC that would bring him, and they just woke up one day and were like "lets just skip to the end and hire this guy".
If I'm hiring Wink because I think Joe Brady is great or Tony Elliott is great, why wouldn't I just hire those two guys instead and let them pick a veteran DC? I'd like my chances much better in that regard.
Bruh it's not the same teams looking. Wink might not be a fit for what the Giants wanted last year but he could be for the Jets this year. I don't understand why you're so dead set against Wink as a candidate. I'm not saying he's guaranteed anything, but to dismiss him as a candidate is ridiculous. Boring ass Vic Fangio managed to get a HC job. Why can't Wink?
And I don't think it has anything to do with the staff that he brings along. If they view Wink as a guy that can unite a locker room, they'll hire him. He's certainly done that here. Players love playing for him.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
None. I think he's showed enough, and I still don't think he will be hired. Because I think teams are more interested in somebody who is either a) a great offensive play caller or b) an organizational manager, like a Joe Judge or a John Harbaugh, who has a much, much, much lengthier pedigree.
His pedigree as a DC really isn't even that long. Its 3 years. You mentioned the likes of McDermott... he spent 8 years as a quality DC before he got a gig. A guy like Mike Vrabel is largely an outlier, since his pedigree comes from being a Belichick player disciple.
because the jobs are different that's why
you just acknowledged that teams didnt like kyle shanahan enough to hire him in the years before he got a HC job
by your logic he never should have ever got a job (let alone a massive 6 year deal) after that... why was he not hired before he was hired???
your answer seems to assume that shanahan never got hired at all and yet he did
by your logic, only first year coordinators who've never had interviews with any team before should ever get hired in any given hiring cycle... otherwise they would clearly have been hired in previous years...
and your still making massive leaps about the whole OC thing - not a single person has suggested that Wink would be hired BECAUSE he had an OC ready - just that it's clearly a bonus that as a defensive guy he's looking at out of the box and exciting offensive minds to bring in - you make it sound like that's a bad thing
im not saying he WILL be hired - im just saying that it seems bizarre to dismiss his potential candidacy out of pocket based on some pretty bizarre reasoning tbh
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
Why would the Jets hire him? You think any team getting set to turn over their QB is going to hire anybody but a offensive-minded coach to maximize what the QB brings?
Like you can write off half the vacancies just by looking at the QB situation. Its really not that difficult.
Fangio is a great example. 19 years as a DC before he got a HC gig, and he's a virtual lock to be fired after 2021. Yet somehow, 3-4 years is enough for Wink? And keep in mind... Fangio put out some defenses that would make the Ravens look bad...
No you cannot lol. Did anyone have Joe Judge in the NYG sweepstakes last year? All of the reports had them going for an offensive mind to work with their young QB in Daniel Jones. Now, they did want Rhule, but when that didn't happen, where did they go? Yeah, the guy they thought was the best fit regardless of his past.
Experience is the most bullshit excuse you could possibly use for why a guy is viable or not. It's about the guy. Wink is a leader. Players love him. If a team sees that and determines that is what is needed in their locker room, he'll be hired.
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
No, I'm saying nobody hired Kyle Shanahan after 3 years as a play caller because 3 years as a play caller wasn't good enough for them. It took him 9 years, and people couldn't figure out why it took him that long.
So we've got a very lengthy list of pretty much everybody needing large amounts of experience as a play caller to get HC gigs, which includes ST guys also, but somehow, Wink is exempt from that? Why exactly?
so are you saying he wont get interviewed to be an HC at all?
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
You do realize that experience is almost the only thing that matters for most teams? Like there's maybe a small handful of teams in this league that hire a HC who doesn't have extensive coordinator experience.
Even Joe Judge had like 8 years as ST coach under Belichick. And he was a "surprising" hire. And he checked the box as "unqualified" by many.
And his pedigree is like double Wink's. But experience doesn't matter? How the hell do you think guys like Gruden and McCarthy are still in this league?
rmcjacket23
Ravens Ring of Honor
I'm sure he'll be one of many candidates for a couple teams, of which they'll know before they interview who they prefer, and sign those guys instead.
I think teams interview a half dozen guys every year, with at least 2-3 of them being so far down the pecking order that they'd need to get turned down by several in order to consider.