• Welcome to PurpleFlock! Sign up here so that you can chat with your fellow Ravens fans.

The Random Thought Thread

Matt Judon is getting the Crockett Gilmore and John Urschel treatment. Good player but vastly overrated by the fan base. I do not want him as the full time starter. At all. We rely on him a little too much. He’s a jack of all trades guy but that’s what he is. Judon is outperforming his other competition from the class sans bosa and Ngakuoue but those two are far superior talents. As they should be but let’s not kid ourselves. He’s part of the problem for our defense and why Timmy and Tyus can’t get developmental playing time.


Here’s to hoping Wink doesn’t suck
 
Matt Judon is getting the Crockett Gilmore and John Urschel treatment. Good player but vastly overrated by the fan base. I do not want him as the full time starter. At all. We rely on him a little too much. He’s a jack of all trades guy but that’s what he is. Judon is outperforming his other competition from the class sans bosa and Ngakuoue but those two are far superior talents. As they should be but let’s not kid ourselves. He’s part of the problem for our defense and why Timmy and Tyus can’t get developmental playing time.


Here’s to hoping Wink doesn’t suck

There were people saying Urschel was really good?
 
I don't care who superior "prospect" is, I care who the superior player is. If Judon is outperforming the superior prospects on both our team and others then he deserves the reps. If the players with such a superior upside want those reps then outplay the person in front of you.
 
There were people saying Urschel was really good?
Yeah it started after his rookie year and his playoff starts. The hype got real one year ago I think it's also because he's a math genius. More people wanted Urschel to start instead of Jensen.
 
Last edited:
I don't care who superior "prospect" is, I care who the superior player is. If Judon is outperforming the superior prospects on both our team and others then he deserves the reps. If the players with such a superior upside want those reps then outplay the person in front of you.
How many times do I have to explain this? It doesn’t fucking matter when Judon who’s vastly overrated by the fan base even if he’s not a bad player, and ZDS who’s a liability. It doesn’t. Those young guys are not going to learn jack shit sitting on the bench and in practice. They need live reps. And the drop off wouldn’t be substantial. Watch the damn film. We sent Judon into coverage pretty often, and while he was solid, those are opportunity that could’ve easily gone to Bowser, who would’ve been an arguable upgrade in that regard. ZDS I don’t need to go over again. He’s a total fucking liability as a pass rusher. How much worse is Tim Williams really going to be? With his skill set displayed on his college film likewise he would’ve been an arguable upgrade. It’d be something if both rookies were total liabilities themselves... but they weren’t. They both flashed whenever actually given opportunists last season. Hell, Wormley a prospect I wasn’t too keen on flashed but we relegated their asses to bench duty. We did the same shit with Paul Kruger. We did the same damn thing with Arthur Jones. They were talented players and all.... but their development would’ve gone a hell of a lot quicker if they saw the field sooner(or in Kruger’s case we didn’t decide to move him to the dline earlier on). Like at all. There was no reason to basically redshirt them. Literally none whatsoever. These guys aren’t Willie Henry who actually needed a year on the bench. Bowser could’ve been an immediate contributor as a coverage backer and Williams as a situational rusher. With the ever growing popularity of rotating front seven players on a consistent basis, there was no reason to not at least rotate them in a hell of a lot more. Probably would’ve kept our defense a lot fresher given the amount of time our shit offense keeps them on the field.
 
Yeah it started after his rookie year and his playoff starts. The hype got real one year ago I think it's also because he's a math genius. More people wanted Urschel to start instead of Jensen.
He was the most popular backup offensive linemen in nfl history because of that math genius of his and his Bose commercials with JJ Watt
 
Matt Judon is getting the Crockett Gilmore and John Urschel treatment. Good player but vastly overrated by the fan base. I do not want him as the full time starter. At all. We rely on him a little too much. He’s a jack of all trades guy but that’s what he is. Judon is outperforming his other competition from the class sans bosa and Ngakuoue but those two are far superior talents. As they should be but let’s not kid ourselves. He’s part of the problem for our defense and why Timmy and Tyus can’t get developmental playing time.


Here’s to hoping Wink doesn’t suck

it's not the same - we never saw production or quality play from crockett and urschel - the hype around those 2 was all based on projection and hope

judon has already shown he's a good player, he's already shown that he's far more than just a jack of all trades guy - he's a quality starter against both the pass and the run

his TFL numbers were around top 5 in the NFL and he was close to double figure sacks for the year that's significant production for a guy who you dont think should be the starter

at worst judon is the starter but gets relieved for some rush work but he absolutely is and should continue to be the starter and to be honest he's a good complementary rusher - i wouldnt love him as the number 1 pass rusher on the team but he's a good starting EDGE

there are some guys this offseason that i really dont agree with you on in terms of them as contributing players:

i dont have a problem with hurst the way you do
im not in love with skura but i dont hate the idea that he starts on a line with yanda and lewis either side of him
i absolutey have no issue with matt judon at all
 
it's not the same - we never saw production or quality play from crockett and urschel - the hype around those 2 was all based on projection and hope

judon has already shown he's a good player, he's already shown that he's far more than just a jack of all trades guy - he's a quality starter against both the pass and the run

his TFL numbers were around top 5 in the NFL and he was close to double figure sacks for the year that's significant production for a guy who you dont think should be the starter

at worst judon is the starter but gets relieved for some rush work but he absolutely is and should continue to be the starter and to be honest he's a good complementary rusher - i wouldnt love him as the number 1 pass rusher on the team but he's a good starting EDGE

there are some guys this offseason that i really dont agree with you on in terms of them as contributing players:

i dont have a problem with hurst the way you do
im not in love with skura but i dont hate the idea that he starts on a line with yanda and lewis either side of him
i absolutey have no issue with matt judon at all
And also Judon is only going into his 3rd year. He had his ups and downs last year but he played some very very good games. A few times he looked like our best defender on the entire field. And he has room to grow. As a sophomore last year, idk how you can complain about him as a player or his production. AND he basically changed his whole body last offseason to better suit being an all around OLB. Let the man grow!

And “jack of all trades master of none type” is quickly becoming that phrase on here that pisses me off because it’s overused so much. Similar to “Einstein’s definition of insanity” bull shit. Fuck all that.
 
And also Judon is only going into his 3rd year. He had his ups and downs last year but he played some very very good games. A few times he looked like our best defender on the entire field. And he has room to grow. As a sophomore last year, idk how you can complain about him as a player or his production. AND he basically changed his whole body last offseason to better suit being an all around OLB. Let the man grow!

And “jack of all trades master of none type” is quickly becoming that phrase on here that pisses me off because it’s overused so much. Similar to “Einstein’s definition of insanity” bull shit. Fuck all that.
Not really. Go back to the tape. He did have good games, but a lot of those sacks were basically cleanup duty. He also had some bad games, especially in run support. I am not here to bash Judon. He's a good player. Let's not throw around the phrase "high end OLB". He's not that. He's vastly outplaying his draft position, and thereby is a steal by default. But he's a good starter. Nothing more. Let's not pretend like he's some pro bowler. Which both Bowser and Williams could potentially be. That said, I have several disagreements with @Truth's overall viewpoint of him in discussions. But there are certain things I do agree with him on. I do think relying on him too much isn't a good idea. As stated previously.. Judon is solid at everything. But I feel as if Tim Williams could become a high level pass rusher with his athleticism and skill set, and Bowser is better suited to have the coverage responsibilities. Judon is a dirty work guy. Which is something every good defense needs. He's a guy who deserves recognition, but not as much as he's getting. So yes. He's a jack of all trades, master of none. Which turns into a good player. Again. I am not calling him bad. He's simply not a stud. He's a fan favorite and I get it.. He's an unknown name on a super bowl caliber defense who's vastly outplaying his position. A good story. But we have two potential thoroughbreads at the OLB position behind him that should at the very least be rotating him.

I actually am not a big fan of the body change fwiw. He was already impressive athletically and I think his game is better suited as a power rusher which I felt he got away from. His skillset was that moreso of a power rusher and he sacrificed strength for speed which made little sense to me. It'd be like if Stephen Curry decided to play his game like Russell Westbrook does.

Judon is a good player. But I feel as if he's better suited to be the third OLB and personally feel as if he's kind of maxed out as a player. He's not this guy who is walking the fine line between good and great. He's good, and an asset to the team. But likely isn't going to be an elite guy. Bowser and Williams straight up need more playing time. More talented and more likely to develop.

it's not the same - we never saw production or quality play from crockett and urschel - the hype around those 2 was all based on projection and hope

judon has already shown he's a good player, he's already shown that he's far more than just a jack of all trades guy - he's a quality starter against both the pass and the run

his TFL numbers were around top 5 in the NFL and he was close to double figure sacks for the year that's significant production for a guy who you dont think should be the starter

at worst judon is the starter but gets relieved for some rush work but he absolutely is and should continue to be the starter and to be honest he's a good complementary rusher - i wouldnt love him as the number 1 pass rusher on the team but he's a good starting EDGE

there are some guys this offseason that i really dont agree with you on in terms of them as contributing players:

i dont have a problem with hurst the way you do
im not in love with skura but i dont hate the idea that he starts on a line with yanda and lewis either side of him
i absolutey have no issue with matt judon at all
A bunch of those sacks were blitzes where he was essentially left untouched or in the case of the Packers game, both of those sacks. First one, Hundley holds the ball too long. Second, Hundley screws up bad. Better than not finishing but those sack numbers are not as impressive as you would think. Context... matters. I wouldn't even want him as the second best pass rusher on the team. He's certainly not bad at all. Having him is not a detriment.. Unless you have superior athletic talent behind him.

I just feel as if he's maxed out here. Let's not call him a "high end OLB".. He's not that. He's good. Solid player. The team is better with him on it rather than him not being here. But the other guys need more snaps. Judon is likely not a better pass rusher than Tim Williams IF WE ACTUALLY LET THE GUY PLAY, or Bowser in Coverage. Pees misappropriated a bunch of personel like crazy. It's more of an issue with ZDS.. But trust me.. Judon shouldn't be stealing snaps from younger guys who NEED snaps to develop.

Oh.. And the tape and PFF both support me on Hurst and Skura both being bad as me accusing them of.. As do the Ravens addressing the RT and C positions in the draft. I'm okay with them as backups but I do not want either anywhere near a starting lineup. It was a miracle the line played as well as it did with both playing. Hurst was a "meh" guard and Skura was lousy too. Line was lucky it had Jensen and Stanley, and that it was playing bad defenses towards the end of the season.
 
Not really. Go back to the tape. He did have good games, but a lot of those sacks were basically cleanup duty. He also had some bad games, especially in run support. I am not here to bash Judon. He's a good player. Let's not throw around the phrase "high end OLB". He's not that. He's vastly outplaying his draft position, and thereby is a steal by default. But he's a good starter. Nothing more. Let's not pretend like he's some pro bowler. Which both Bowser and Williams could potentially be. That said, I have several disagreements with @Truth's overall viewpoint of him in discussions. But there are certain things I do agree with him on. I do think relying on him too much isn't a good idea. As stated previously.. Judon is solid at everything. But I feel as if Tim Williams could become a high level pass rusher with his athleticism and skill set, and Bowser is better suited to have the coverage responsibilities. Judon is a dirty work guy. Which is something every good defense needs. He's a guy who deserves recognition, but not as much as he's getting. So yes. He's a jack of all trades, master of none. Which turns into a good player. Again. I am not calling him bad. He's simply not a stud. He's a fan favorite and I get it.. He's an unknown name on a super bowl caliber defense who's vastly outplaying his position. A good story. But we have two potential thoroughbreads at the OLB position behind him that should at the very least be rotating him.

I actually am not a big fan of the body change fwiw. He was already impressive athletically and I think his game is better suited as a power rusher which I felt he got away from. His skillset was that moreso of a power rusher and he sacrificed strength for speed which made little sense to me. It'd be like if Stephen Curry decided to play his game like Russell Westbrook does.

Judon is a good player. But I feel as if he's better suited to be the third OLB and personally feel as if he's kind of maxed out as a player. He's not this guy who is walking the fine line between good and great. He's good, and an asset to the team. But likely isn't going to be an elite guy. Bowser and Williams straight up need more playing time. More talented and more likely to develop.


A bunch of those sacks were blitzes where he was essentially left untouched or in the case of the Packers game, both of those sacks. First one, Hundley holds the ball too long. Second, Hundley screws up bad. Better than not finishing but those sack numbers are not as impressive as you would think. Context... matters. I wouldn't even want him as the second best pass rusher on the team. He's certainly not bad at all. Having him is not a detriment.. Unless you have superior athletic talent behind him.

I just feel as if he's maxed out here. Let's not call him a "high end OLB".. He's not that. He's good. Solid player. The team is better with him on it rather than him not being here. But the other guys need more snaps. Judon is likely not a better pass rusher than Tim Williams IF WE ACTUALLY LET THE GUY PLAY, or Bowser in Coverage. Pees misappropriated a bunch of personel like crazy. It's more of an issue with ZDS.. But trust me.. Judon shouldn't be stealing snaps from younger guys who NEED snaps to develop.

Oh.. And the tape and PFF both support me on Hurst and Skura both being bad as me accusing them of.. As do the Ravens addressing the RT and C positions in the draft. I'm okay with them as backups but I do not want either anywhere near a starting lineup. It was a miracle the line played as well as it did with both playing. Hurst was a "meh" guard and Skura was lousy too. Line was lucky it had Jensen and Stanley, and that it was playing bad defenses towards the end of the season.

you know im on the tim williams train more than anyone - i probably had him the highest rated of anyone on this board through the pre-draft process and i hope he does play more but those snaps shouldnt be coming at judon's expense necessarily

you yourself said that judon is a good player and a good starter - that in and of itself is valuable and difficult to find in the NFL - at the moment as much as i love timmy williams and as much potential as tyus bowser has shown, we haven't actually seen any consistency from them - they need snaps but the player they've got to beat out first is the "designated pass rush" specialist who last year was ZDS - what i hope we see more often is judon starting at edge and then moving inside and maybe standing over the centre or rushing from between the tackles as the 3rd rush LB on obvious passing downs which would open up a spot on the outside for timmy or tyus

the context does also matter with regards to Judon's rushing - he finished 8 sacks - that's not a total that everyone gets to in the NFL albeit its nothing special - but more importantly he got pressure, especially early in the year he found himself around the qb which is important that we get that from him

i do agree with you that he may be close to maxed out - he came in with good technique and was good at setting up his rush in college which you could see on film even though he was coming up against small school OL

i just think its a little crazy to not want Judon starting when he's clearly a starting EDGE - and even if timmy does come on strong and become what i hope he can become, timmy certainly isnt gonna be a starter because he's really poor setting the edge

My hope is that moving forward that Judon becomes an Upshaw/Mcphee hybrid - a high end edge setter and run defender off the edge who can move inside on pass rushing downs and get sacks and pressures standing up inside - basically Judon was living in the backfield at times last year and I'd like to see that continue

and on Hurst and Skura, I agree that I'd prefer them on the bench and im glad we added competition to at least one of their spots but they legitimately proved last year that they were adequate starting guards - you always want to improve your roster but we are in a much stronger position going into this year than we were last year and part of that is the development of Hurst and Skura respectively
 
Judon is part of the comprehensuv plan. He's the most complete OLB, not named Terrell Suggs, we've had in fucking years. It's Williams and Bowsers job to beat him. If not role with Judon.
 
Matt Judon is getting the Crockett Gilmore and John Urschel treatment. Good player but vastly overrated by the fan base. I do not want him as the full time starter. At all. We rely on him a little too much. He’s a jack of all trades guy but that’s what he is. Judon is outperforming his other competition from the class sans bosa and Ngakuoue but those two are far superior talents. As they should be but let’s not kid ourselves. He’s part of the problem for our defense and why Timmy and Tyus can’t get developmental playing time.


Here’s to hoping Wink doesn’t suck
Judon had 8 sacks and played better cvg last year than mosley. its not like he playe the khalil mack type role and rushes the passer 99% of the time. Tyus was overrated last year by fan base after he got an int thrown directly to him in triple cvg and a cvg sack and didnt nothing afterwards. Tim williams has potential but he looks like a pass rusher only, which i have no problem with. Anyway, we have a lot of options and hopefully wink figures it out
 
Judon had 8 sacks and played better cvg last year than mosley. its not like he playe the khalil mack type role and rushes the passer 99% of the time. Tyus was overrated last year by fan base after he got an int thrown directly to him in triple cvg and a cvg sack and didnt nothing afterwards. Tim williams has potential but he looks like a pass rusher only, which i have no problem with. Anyway, we have a lot of options and hopefully wink figures it out
Bowser looked very good, more than just fluke plays, he was playing faster than nearly anyone out there on most snaps, he was disruptive on zone drops, he was challenging tackles around the edge at a surprising rate, and his pursuit was excellent.

He had 1 mental hiccup and went to the doghouse and barely saw the field after
 
te hunter henry tore his acl during ota's. wonder if maxx williams could be offered for a pick?

maxx (and boyle) have more value to us than any other team
both are block-first tight ends with experience in our scheme and a relationship with greg roman - no other team will attribute any value to these guys that would be worth us giving one of them up

not to mention that Hunter Henry is a receiving tight end and both maxx and boyle are blocking tight ends so neither really fills that hole at all...
 
maxx (and boyle) have more value to us than any other team
both are block-first tight ends with experience in our scheme and a relationship with greg roman - no other team will attribute any value to these guys that would be worth us giving one of them up

not to mention that Hunter Henry is a receiving tight end and both maxx and boyle are blocking tight ends so neither really fills that hole at all...
im 1000% sure that other teams would be able to use max better than how we use him as in getting him involved in the passing game.
 
Top