The Random Thought Thread

[cdp]

That seems unlikely. Did we allow Wink to do that?

? Harbaugh even said one year after we promoted Wink that he and wink redesigned the scheme. So yes, Wink runs a different scheme which fits his style

 

[Davesta]

We need to beat the Bengals or we don't deserve to go, but I thought this article that gives us every scenario on seeding was interesting

https://ravenswire.usatoday.com/lis...arios-for-week-17-what-seed-will-ravens-earn/

going off this.. teams I most want to play first round rankings:

colts > Steelers > titans > bills

 

[rossihunter2]

That seems unlikely. Did we allow Wink to do that?

yes we did - part of the reason we're comfortable with the in-house hires is that they already have the same language and understanding of personnel

but Wink came in and philosophically completely changed how we operate - he brought senior veterans into the process too to help design a defence that fit what we had and fit him as a playcaller

think how drastic the change from Pees to Wink was in terms of philosophy

 

[JO_75]

I figure I put this here as it will likely get more discussion here. The NFL plans to move to a 17 game schedule in 2021. The scheduling rotation would stay as it is but the 17th game would be an interconference game based on divisional standings.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-plans-to-expand-regular-season-to-17-games-per-team-in-2021

 

[rossihunter2]

I want to expand upon the discussion that is going on here, because I think we got away from something pretty interesting. In the situation where wink does leave (not guaranteed) what do we think the vision for our defense is?

We had a lot of years of Dean Pees and his bend don't break style. We've now had 3 years of Wink who calls a highly aggressive style of defense. These two DCs coached under the same HC and he knows good well the pros and cons to each. Do we think that whoever would get promoted or brought in would be hired to somewhat replicate a blitz heavy defense? Do we think we'd go back to a more Pees style D? Do we think we don't care at all and want to give the new guy every opportunity to be himself?

whoever we hire (likely one of the guys already in the building) it will be left to them to playcall how they feel fit, with their own style and tendencies

much like Wink they likely will have worked with the same personnel and have the verbiage at their disposal but like Wink when he took over the role, they'll have their own ideas about how to improve the unit in terms of scheme and they'll have to be allowed to implement those things (or else why are we hiring them to be someone else)

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Lol maybe they thought it was the hot tub time machine and would take them back to when the Browns were dominant.

I’m not at all a fan of the black and whites. It’s too much of the “Joe Flacco” era uniform to me. I like the black jersey purple pants combo though.

In some way you would think that the NFL may implement a bailout option specifically for QB contracts gone wrong. Then again as rmjacket said it’s self inflicted so eh. No offence to those teams right against the cap but we didn’t complain when we had Joe. We all probably knew his days were coming to an end whether we wanted to admit it or not.

I wonder what job it is because Wink said before he would only leave for the “right gig”.

Yeah but we’ve seen DCs go lately too a la Flores, the guy in Detroit, and others. Offense is sexy but defense is still valued.

1. Love the black on purples, really annoyed we haven’t seen them since week 17 2 years ago, it’s a combination that intrigued me from the time we first wore purple pants, and I was shocked at how great they looked when I saw them in action. We as fans should demand to see them more!

2. It’s not about offense being sexy or whether or not defense is valued, it’s about the process of building a team, time and time again defensive head coaches have failed miserably, while the hot new offensive gurus at HC have at the very least taken a QB the team drafted and made the team competitive with them, sometimes in spite of them, even Nagy has been able to compete with trubisky, the hit rate just seems so much higher when you take a bottom dweller team and marry an offensive “guru” to a high draft pick at QB, while the hit rate on defensive minded coaches seems to be almost zero, for every Brian Flores there’s a dozen Matt patricias, Anthony lynn in 2018 was looking like the next great defensive HC and now the team has drafted a franchise qb and lynn is one foot out the door, my guess is they want an offensive minded HC to pair with their young QB, it’s a trend that points very strongly in one direction because there just seems to be a template on how to build a team from the ground up now

 

[rossihunter2]

If I was Harbaugh I'd interview different DCs (current philosophy, pees style and other styles). It never hurts to listen to what different schemes offer and what they think. But the "new dc" can't run a completely different defense. the way our defense is set up, it makes for example no sense to run a seahawks cover 3 defense. But ultimately i don't expect a Wink 2.0. (aka Trestman dilemma)

tbh id fully expect any successor to be in-house - it's the ravens way on defence and i dont see why that would change now...

only reason it would change is if they dont think any of the guys in that position coach room can do it which seems unlikely to me...

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I figure I put this here as it will likely get more discussion here. The NFL plans to move to a 17 game schedule in 2021. The scheduling rotation would stay as it is but the 17th game would be an interconference game based on divisional standings.

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-plans-to-expand-regular-season-to-17-games-per-team-in-2021

I guess out of conference has minimal impact on seeding? Not sure why else they would make it interconference.

Calling it right now that the very first time the Steelers and cowboys fall into that game, it’s primetime. Gotta hold on to those steel curtain and America’s team prehistoric rivalries

 

[rossihunter2]

? Harbaugh even said one year after we promoted Wink that he and wink redesigned the scheme. So yes, Wink runs a different scheme which fits his style

yeah he re-designed it with significant input from Weddle, Sizzle and CJ (interesting that none of those guys made it out of year 1 of the redesign lol) to be multiple and aggressive and rely on great communication and chemistry to allow the defenders to attack and dictate to the offence

 

[rossihunter2]

I guess out of conference has minimal impact on seeding? Not sure why else they would make it interconference.

Calling it right now that the very first time the Steelers and cowboys fall into that game, it’s primetime. Gotta hold on to those steel curtain and America’s team prehistoric rivalries

it's simpler - you already play a team in every division within your own conference - (your own division, an entire conference division and the other 2 division's same-place finishers)

who would the other same conference team be...

it makes sense to just play another same-place finisher in the other conference if you're adding a game

the only other alternative that might be interesting to me is if you had a specific yearly matchup with an out of conference team to help create more rivalries

and you could even lock them in as legacy-type rivalry games or geographical ones (the only thing is that every 4 years you'd have to have a replacement rival because your rival would already be in your schedule because of their division)

logistically it's much simpler to just play a same-place finisher

 

[cdp]

tbh id fully expect any successor to be in-house - it's the ravens way on defence and i dont see why that would change now...

only reason it would change is if they dont think any of the guys in that position coach room can do it which seems unlikely to me...

In-house would be great. Honestly I don't know much about our assistant coaches. Joe Cullen is the only one i know, but I'd rather promote someone else lol

 

[Davesta]

I don't say this as a shot at Patrick Queen - I like him a lot and think he's going to be good in time. But from a curiosity standpoint because we know who the other option was, I really wonder what this team would look like with Tee Higgins as opposed to Queen. He's quietly put together a pretty damn good year, even post Burrow injury.

Jamison Hensley did alluded to these 2 being the top 2 choices when it got to us.

Knowing what we know now, and how Chris Board has stepped up, we would’ve probably benefited more this year if we got Higgins instead of Queen.

Patrick Queen started off slow and looked lost in coverage, but he’s picking it up lately. It could be because we played the Jags and Giants. This is only his 2nd year as a starter really. So hopefully he just needs more experience.

But during the draft.. if Higgins and Queen had similar grades, we needed a LB way more than a WR.

Besides, we’re getting Allen Robinson or Corey Davis in free agency year off-season. No worries.

 

[rossihunter2]

In-house would be great. Honestly I don't know much about our assistant coaches. Joe Cullen is the only one i know, but I'd promote someone else lol

chris hewitt to me would be the favourite for the job
he's currently in what i think is year 9 with the Ravens - 7 of those years working with the defensive backs first as an assistant, then as DBs coach in 2015-2016, secondary coach 2017-2019

and this year he was promoted to pass defence coordinator which feels like a step towards him progressing to a full coordinator type role in the future

the other option seems to be mike macdonald but to me he's clearly the 2nd favourite

 

[rossihunter2]

Jamison Hensley did alluded to these 2 being the top 2 choices when it got to us.

Knowing what we know now, and how Chris Board has stepped up, we would’ve probably benefited more this year if we got Higgins instead of Queen.

Patrick Queen started off slow and looked lost in coverage, but he’s picking it up lately. It could be because we played the Jags and Giants. This is only his 2nd year as a starter really. So hopefully he just needs more experience.

But during the draft.. if Higgins and Queen had similar grades, we needed a LB way more than a WR.

Besides, we’re getting Allen Robinson or Corey Davis in free agency year off-season. No worries.

View attachment 2574

worth noting that even with Chris Board stepping up

Patrick Queen played 94% of the snaps on Sunday while neither Board nor Fort even got 50%

now obviously that's partly down to the DB crisis meaning we're seeing more LB snaps overall but still notable that Queen is seeing the lion's share of those LB snaps

 

[rmcjacket23]

Brian Flores had 1 year and never even an official DC title

And 11 years working directly under Belichick, including as a ST coach and various levels of the defense.

NFL 101... if you ever worked for Belichick for more than like 2-3 years, you'll get HC gigs.

 

[Davesta]

NFL 101... if you ever worked for Belichick for more than like 2-3 years, you'll get HC gigs.

or if you’re young and had coffee with Sean McVay while talking offense.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Brian Flores had 1 year and never even an official DC title

And 11 years working directly under Belichick, including as a ST coach and various levels of the defense.

NFL 101... if you ever worked for Belichick for more than like 2-3 years, you'll get HC

? Harbaugh even said one year after we promoted Wink that he and wink redesigned the scheme. So yes, Wink runs a different scheme which fits his style

I mean... what does he do different? Still runs a "base" 3-4, just like we have for like over a decade, still looking for the same style of players as his predecessors were.

I could make a case that defensive "schemes" don't even really matter anymore. You're in subpackages at least 50-60% of the game (Nickel/Dime primarily), which means the only real deviations are in your blitz/pressure schemes and what your secondary is doing.

I think you could bring in literally any defensive coach off the street and, with the existing roster, would run largely the same concepts, just with different pressure philosophies. Its not like anybody is going to come in and be like "yeah I think Peters and Marlon and Jimmy are perfect for Cover 3 zone schemes", just like nobody is going to ask Brandon William to play 5 technique as a sub package interior rusher.

If you want to dramatically overhaul the defense, it'll require major personnel changes first.

That's why the team pretty much just hires from within most of the time. They don't want to see dramatic changes to how they scout personnel, and they like the personnel they have. If you've got good players, every coach is going to look good.

 

[RavensMania]

That seems unlikely. Did we allow Wink to do that?

Wink is absolutely calling his own defense. He certainly isn't calling the Dean Pees defense.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

it's simpler - you already play a team in every division within your own conference - (your own division, an entire conference division and the other 2 division's same-place finishers)

who would the other same conference team be...

it makes sense to just play another same-place finisher in the other conference if you're adding a game

the only other alternative that might be interesting to me is if you had a specific yearly matchup with an out of conference team to help create more rivalries

and you could even lock them in as legacy-type rivalry games or geographical ones (the only thing is that every 4 years you'd have to have a replacement rival because your rival would already be in your schedule because of their division)

logistically it's much simpler to just play a same-place finisher

Tbh I LOVE the legacy rivalry idea, ravens titans rivalry renewed.

but I see what you’re saying, like nothing else really does make sense in all honesty

 

[rossihunter2]

And 11 years working directly under Belichick, including as a ST coach and various levels of the defense.

NFL 101... if you ever worked for Belichick for more than like 2-3 years, you'll get HC

I mean... what does he do different? Still runs a "base" 3-4, just like we have for like over a decade, still looking for the same style of players as his predecessors were.

I could make a case that defensive "schemes" don't even really matter anymore. You're in subpackages at least 50-60% of the game (Nickel/Dime primarily), which means the only real deviations are in your blitz/pressure schemes and what your secondary is doing.

I think you could bring in literally any defensive coach off the street and, with the existing roster, would run largely the same concepts, just with different pressure philosophies. Its not like anybody is going to come in and be like "yeah I think Peters and Marlon and Jimmy are perfect for Cover 3 zone schemes", just like nobody is going to ask Brandon William to play 5 technique as a sub package interior rusher.

If you want to dramatically overhaul the defense, it'll require major personnel changes first.

That's why the team pretty much just hires from within most of the time. They don't want to see dramatic changes to how they scout personnel, and they like the personnel they have. If you've got good players, every coach is going to look good.

the only real deviations are in your blitz/pressure schemes and what your secondary is doing...
(isn't that basically the entire pass defence...)

but also is way too simplistic...

it's not just about when you bring pressure, it's how you bring pressure and how you design pressure
it's not just about what your "coverage" is but how those players communicate and read situationally and how they're asked to play different looks
it's about how you use your linebackers, what you ask them to do, what you expect them to do

it's about what packages and personnel you use when...

and this completely ignores the running game where even though teams are hardly in base packages anymore, you still have stylistic differences in the play-styles and demands on the defensive linemen - how often do you ask players to 2-gap vs 1-gap - do you have a nose tackle

the rules across defences are similar partly because offence dictates what defences do

in terms of what Wink does differently to Pees - you're right that a lot of it comes down to pressure - but its not just about how much he brings pressure it's about how he brings it - the way he uses deception more frequently, he blitzes defensive backs from all over the field

but also the way he designs stunts with those pressures - it's very rare that we send a blitz that doesnt involve some form of stunt in front of it because the entire philosophy of creating pressure is related to our scheme and specifically scheming up free rushers and/or overloading gaps

but it's also about personnel on the back-end too - we run the dime with Wink more often than we have in decades - in fact until 2017 we hardly played any dime at all with Pees (it basically didnt exist as a package until 2017 for Pees's defence)