The Random Thought Thread

[rossihunter2]

Got to mention guys like Tendulkar too. Then in other sports, have to have Messi and Ronaldo on the GOAT list (if you read the Ballon D'Or winners since 2006, you'll immediately understand). In rugby, guys like Jonah Lomu made opponents look like small children for a decade. I didn't realise he died in 2015 though! Only 40. RIP.

yeah I remember watching his funeral where 100s of people did a haka in his honour - what he did to England in that 1995 semifinal is one of the most seminal moments in the sport especially that first try - it’s a shame New Zealand never won the World Cup with him in the team

 

[QuothTheRaven]

And 2 of the open receivers were over 300lbs each lol

I would be all for an advanced metric that grades plays based on how many lbs were open lol

 

[rossihunter2]

Sure ,probably should have included a soccer player , but let’s not pretend like the rest of the world compares to the US when it comes to athletics.


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lol what?
Greatest Olympic athlete in athletics is Jamaican... no us athlete could even touch usain bolt lol let alone compete

 

[Dom McRaven]

Anyone else notice that hollywood looks a lil faster?

Kinda. He definitely doesn't look slower.

 

[rossihunter2]

I would be all for an advanced metric that grades plays based on how many lbs were open lol

CPR: Chunk per reception

 

[QuothTheRaven]

CPR: Chunk per reception

I'd go for MPP: Mass Per Pass.

 

[rossihunter2]

I'd go for MPP: Mass Per Pass.

that’s a classic... volume... stat

 

[rossihunter2]

 

[QuothTheRaven]

yeah I remember watching his funeral where 100s of people did a haka in his honour - what he did to England in that 1995 semifinal is one of the most seminal moments in the sport especially that first try - it’s a shame New Zealand never won the World Cup with him in the team

I went back to check what a freak he really was...

6'5"
265 lbs.
Ran a 10.7 second 100m, which gives an estimated 40 time of about 4.24 - 4.3 seconds according to Bleacher report.

Unreal.

 

[BoredMarine13]

lol what?
Greatest Olympic athlete in athletics is Jamaican... no us athlete could even touch usain bolt lol let alone compete

Ok? What was the Jamaican Medal count again? Again the US dominates consistently. Not that the Olympics is a even a good metric, but if your using that you just proved my point lol

Your example isn’t even a good one considering track is faaaaar down the list of sports the US really cares and we still show out well.


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[BoredMarine13]

Just so I'm clear, your position is that the USA has produced such a large proportion of the best athletes in history that the rest of the world is barely worth mentioning..?

Nope, one of my athletes was Federer who’s Swiss. I’m just saying we’re the best. I know it upsets people who live outside the states, but it’s not even close.


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[QuothTheRaven]

Ok? What was the Jamaican Medal count again? Again the US dominates consistently. Not that the Olympics is a even a good metric, but if your using that you just proved my point lol

Your example isn’t even a good one considering track is faaaaar down the list of sports the US really cares and we still show out well.


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I don't think anyone is arguing that the USA isn't one of the most successful countries in athletics, given that it has the largest population of the wealthy nations. But the claim was "rest of the world", in which case the USA obviously lose out big time in the medals table.

 

[QuothTheRaven]

Nope, one of my athletes was Federer who’s Swiss. I’m just saying we’re the best. I know it upsets people who live outside the states, but it’s not even close.


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I agree (without checking the claim but whatever) that the USA produces more top athletes than any other nation. But the majority of top athletes of all time are still not American. That's all.

 

[BoredMarine13]

lol what?
Greatest Olympic athlete in athletics is Jamaican... no us athlete could even touch usain bolt lol let alone compete

Lol i know your the argumentative type that can’t handle lbeing wrong but Bolt isn’t even the greatest track athlete , let alone Olympian. Jesse Owens for sure. Also Phelps is far more decorated than both.


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[UPennChem]

Does anyone know why Leveon Bell sort of fell off in the first place? Like he was CRAZY good for Pitt. Takes a year off, which for a heavily used RB may have been a good thing. Has 1 good year on the pathetic Jets. He's 27 at the time. Is apparently basically dead at 28, only getting picked up after he's cut by KC because they needed a veteran after injury. Then at 29 isn't on a team again until we need a veteran. It's just weird. How does he go from over 22 50 total yards at 27 on bad team to can't make a roster? This is all to say, if he's happy and working hard, does anyone think he may actually have something left in the tank that he has some greater heights he can still achieve ? Not like RB1 stuff, but maybe a real RB2? And maybe because of our backfield a luxury RB3?

 

[BoredMarine13]

I agree (without checking the claim but whatever) that the USA produces more top athletes than any other nation. But the majority of top athletes of all time are still not American. That's all.

What sports? Soccer ? Cricket? Rugby? Totally under stable , we don’t really enjoy those sports as much of the rest of the world . I’m a big fan of the footy from my time being stationed in Australia . I wish we cared more about it. I also enjoy soccer since my wife played in college and makes me watch it whenever USA women are playing. Still if the US didn’t focus on the big 4( football, baseball, basketball, hockey) and instead focused on soccer, we be dominating that as well.


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[QuothTheRaven]

What sports? Soccer ? Cricket? Rugby? Totally under stable , we don’t really enjoy those sports as much of the rest of the world . I’m a big fan of the footy from my time being stationed in Australia . I wish we cared more about it. I also enjoy soccer since my wife played in college and makes me watch it whenever USA women are playing. Still if the US didn’t focus on the big 4( football, baseball, basketball, hockey) and instead focused on soccer, we be dominating that as well.


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All sports - that's the point. You can include football, baseball and all those other sports that aren't really played outside of the USA too. The USA would dominate any sport they put their mind to with their blend of population size and finances. But the generational guys who are just genetic freaks are a function of population (with scatter related to available facilities) and it's just a fact that most people in the world are not American. If you add up all the elite athletes you can think of then most won't be American purely from a volume standpoint. That's my issue with the claim. It's really no deeper than that and it's no hate to America. It's also kind of a pointless conversation now lol

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Does anyone know why Leveon Bell sort of fell off in the first place? Like he was CRAZY good for Pitt. Takes a year off, which for a heavily used RB may have been a good thing. Has 1 good year on the pathetic Jets. He's 27 at the time. Is apparently basically dead at 28, only getting picked up after he's cut by KC because they needed a veteran after injury. Then at 29 isn't on a team again until we need a veteran. It's just weird. How does he go from over 22 50 total yards at 27 on bad team to can't make a roster? This is all to say, if he's happy and working hard, does anyone think he may actually have something left in the tank that he has some greater heights he can still achieve ? Not like RB1 stuff, but maybe a real RB2? And maybe because of our backfield a luxury RB3?

He had a style that didn’t age well plain and simple, at one time he was a very patient runner who stayed clean in the backfield until the ideal lane opened and he burst through it, these days he just doesn’t have the quickness to stay deep in the backfield and survey without getting harassed, and doesn’t have the burst to pull it off even if he does find the lane.

what we saw from him against the Vikings was adapting, he changed his style, he attacked and hugged the line of scrimmage which nullified a lot of those weaknesses, if he can keep that up I believe he could be an excellent short yardage back and late game grinder, he has a knack for finding that crease for a 2-5 yard gain when it’s really needed, but I don’t ever see him being anything close to a 20 touch per game kinda guy.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Does anyone know why Leveon Bell sort of fell off in the first place? Like he was CRAZY good for Pitt. Takes a year off, which for a heavily used RB may have been a good thing. Has 1 good year on the pathetic Jets. He's 27 at the time. Is apparently basically dead at 28, only getting picked up after he's cut by KC because they needed a veteran after injury. Then at 29 isn't on a team again until we need a veteran. It's just weird. How does he go from over 22 50 total yards at 27 on bad team to can't make a roster? This is all to say, if he's happy and working hard, does anyone think he may actually have something left in the tank that he has some greater heights he can still achieve ? Not like RB1 stuff, but maybe a real RB2? And maybe because of our backfield a luxury RB3?

Well, in my opinion, his decline started while he was in Pittsburgh. 2014-2016 was one of the top backs in the league.
In 2017, you could see the decline. Still puts up gaudy stats (almost 2,000 total yards), but he also had over 400 touches that year. His YPC dropped from consistently 4.7-4.9 in the prior three years down to 4.0, which is basically replacement level YPC in the NFL.
I wouldn't even categorize his year with the Jets as good. He had a pathetic 3.2 YPC, on a gigantic number of attempts (245) and he basically had 1,200 yards on over 300 touches, which is thoroughly unimpressive. Only four touchdowns as well. Any RB on our team today, including Williams, Bell, Freeman or Murray, could get 1,200 total yards and 4 TDs on 300 touches. That's how un-special that is.
For context, last year, Dobbins had 925 total yards and 9 TDs on only ~150 touches. The year before, when Ingram was the workhorse, he had ~1,250 yards on 230 touches and 15 TDs. And he was 30 with a TON of usage in his career.

For me, pretty standard example of how RBs can fall off a cliff very quickly with high usage. Bell has been your classic "volume-based" back for several years, and that's a product of getting 22-30 touches per game on average for a 5 year period.

He's pretty much the poster boy for the argument of "draft a RB, run them into the ground on their rookie deal", then let them walk.

 

[RavensMania]

Well I mean it's really never been "amateurs" for most sports. Like Swimming is always going to be "professional" swimmers in the Olympics because that's like the peak of their sport.

The Olympics would be better off not having "major sports" in it. No baseball, football, hockey, soccer, basketball, etc. It will pretty much never be an indication of anything. Any large sport that's played globally will either have international competitions to decide who's the best (i.e. the World Cup) or all the best players flock to one area to play anyway (NBA, MLB, etc.).

It's really not amateurism vs professional, it's more along the lines of the Olympics should be about non-popular sports that already have global competitions.

true and agree