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The Random Thought Thread

rossihunter2 said:
and the other was such a tough weather game that the other team couldnt move the ball either
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Also the complete whiff by Tyre and JK when Hollywood came wide open. Followed by the pick six , i hate Roman but that’s all on player execution.
 
Deebo813 said:
I mean all the running from lamar will eventually have to stop….: and thats when roman will be out
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Yea I agree and often wonder when that will begin to happen. Not of fan of Lamar signing a mega deal followed by him running Designed QB run 8-10 times a game.
 
BoredMarine13 said:
Curious why you think that ?
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Lamar has a skillset no other qb has ever had, Greg Roman uses it very well.

There are weaknesses of Lamar’s that other OCs may be able to hide better, but I don’t believe anyone can use what Lamar does best better than Roman. Maybe a Doug pedersen, Kyle shanahan or Josh mcdaniels, but that’s a big maybe, and those guys are legitimate gurus. Roman is a guru himself, just in a different way and his shortcomings are real.

I think Lamar, andrews, and the run game is enough on offense for Roman to operate his offense at a very high level, injuries and player execution has been a huge issue. If you watch film you can see that defenses paid NO mind to the backs on the option plays, lamar made a lot of poor reads and kept anyway(or they were designed) and the play was shut down and the back had a wide lane, but if he had the ball they would’ve caught him easily because they all sucked. If JK dobbins and Gus edwards are healthy I think the ravens do enough after a 8-3 start to make the playoffs, they would’ve been KEY difference makers on offense, and that’s not even getting into the OL and Villanueva and such.

I think Roman and lamar can win a super bowl with the roster we have now, I think the defense needs to play a huge role, and if we’re a defense first kinda team then great, that supports a run first approach on offense, and if that’s what it takes then so be it.

I have plenty of doubts about Roman but I don’t pin 21/20 on him.
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Lamar has a skillset no other qb has ever had, Greg Roman uses it very well.

There are weaknesses of Lamar’s that other OCs may be able to hide better, but I don’t believe anyone can use what Lamar does best better than Roman. Maybe a Doug pedersen, Kyle shanahan or Josh mcdaniels, but that’s a big maybe, and those guys are legitimate gurus. Roman is a guru himself, just in a different way and his shortcomings are real.

I think Lamar, andrews, and the run game is enough on offense for Roman to operate his offense at a very high level, injuries and player execution has been a huge issue. If you watch film you can see that defenses paid NO mind to the backs on the option plays, lamar made a lot of poor reads and kept anyway(or they were designed) and the play was shut down and the back had a wide lane, but if he had the ball they would’ve caught him easily because they all sucked. If JK dobbins and Gus edwards are healthy I think the ravens do enough after a 8-3 start to make the playoffs, they would’ve been KEY difference makers on offense, and that’s not even getting into the OL and Villanueva and such.

I think Roman and lamar can win a super bowl with the roster we have now, I think the defense needs to play a huge role, and if we’re a defense first kinda team then great, that supports a run first approach on offense, and if that’s what it takes then so be it.

I have plenty of doubts about Roman but I don’t pin 21/20 on him.
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i think it's worth noting that in the games and play-time that trey lance has had so far, the 49ers borrowed a lot of concepts from the ravens - you didnt see a lot of under centre and they ran a lot less stretch zone and less bootleg etc. because that's not how you get the most out of your dynamic athlete QB

greg roman is a literal run game savant - you can argue all you like about the way our pass offence has looked but worth noting it's not like we don't have all those plays in the playbook, they've just not been well called/well executed as consistently as you like

if anything, the criticism you can levy at roman as a pass game designer is that he over-complicates, but when people call his passing concepts simple they misunderstand what's gone wrong

playcalling is a more legitimate criticism you can have of Roman and his occasional paralysis with using more creative passing concepts or by hamstringing himself with certain personnel groupings but design and scheme more generally are not a problem here at all
 
rossihunter2 said:
i think it's worth noting that in the games and play-time that trey lance has had so far, the 49ers borrowed a lot of concepts from the ravens - you didnt see a lot of under centre and they ran a lot less stretch zone and less bootleg etc. because that's not how you get the most out of your dynamic athlete QB

greg roman is a literal run game savant - you can argue all you like about the way our pass offence has looked but worth noting it's not like we don't have all those plays in the playbook, they've just not been well called/well executed as consistently as you like

if anything, the criticism you can levy at roman as a pass game designer is that he over-complicates, but when people call his passing concepts simple they misunderstand what's gone wrong

playcalling is a more legitimate criticism you can have of Roman and his occasional paralysis with using more creative passing concepts or by hamstringing himself with certain personnel groupings but design and scheme more generally are not a problem here at all
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Exactly. You simply can’t find a better coordinator to get rushing yards out of your qb. If your qb is Lamar fucking Jackson, shouldn’t you want that? If we give Lamar a six year 240m guaranteed deal and we go get ONE super bowl in that stretch, I’m happy, anything beyond that is great but win a super bowl first then you can start talking about “but what about long term with Lamar Jackson and his running?”
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
Exactly. You simply can’t find a better coordinator to get rushing yards out of your qb. If your qb is Lamar fucking Jackson, shouldn’t you want that? If we give Lamar a six year 240m guaranteed deal and we go get ONE super bowl in that stretch, I’m happy, anything beyond that is great but win a super bowl first then you can start talking about “but what about long term with Lamar Jackson and his running?
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My problem with this is Lamar is far more dangerous with his legs on passing plays when things break down. I have no stats, simply the eye test. Yes Lamar is still effective on designed run plays , but his ability to extend plays through insane athletic abilities some how gets credited to Romans scheme. Lamar could match these rushing stats with any coordinator because he is that great.
 
BoredMarine13 said:
My problem with this is Lamar is far more dangerous with his legs on passing plays when things break down. I have no stats, simply the eye test. Yes Lamar is still effective on designed run plays , but his ability to extend plays through insane athletic abilities some how gets credited to Romans scheme. Lamar could match these rushing stats with any coordinator because he is that great.
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I just respectfully disagree with all of this. How many times do ravens fans wish Lamar would just fucking run instead of scrambling and looking downfield and finding nothing and ending up with minimal gain, when Lamar hitting the gas at the first opening would’ve been a huge play. Lamar is not russel Wilson, he navigates the pocket very well and he does have many big plays coming off of scrambles, but Lamar as a passer is at his best within the structure of the play, always has been, and his biggest plays tend to come when he drops back, sees the opening and just hits it without waiting around for a receiver to uncover
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
I just respectfully disagree with all of this. How many times do ravens fans wish Lamar would just fucking run instead of scrambling and looking downfield and finding nothing and ending up with minimal gain, when Lamar hitting the gas at the first opening would’ve been a huge play. Lamar is not russel Wilson, he navigates the pocket very well and he does have many big plays coming off of scrambles, but Lamar as a passer is at his best within the structure of the play, always has been, and his biggest plays tend to come when he drops back, sees the opening and just hits it without waiting around for a receiver to uncover
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i genuinely think that's one of the reasons (combined with more optimal blocking outcomes) of faking options - where you dress something up with the mesh to look like a read but in fact it's a give/pull based on the playcall - i also think it's probably why we don't run as many RPOs as you'd expect
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
How many times do ravens fans wish Lamar would just fucking run instead of scrambling and looking downfield and finding nothing and ending up with minimal gain, when Lamar hitting the gas at the first opening would’ve been a huge play.
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I agree, but that's more on Lamar trying to prove to folks he is a passer first. At least that's the excuse I come up with when he does that stuff and frustrates the hell out of me.
JoeyFlex5 said:
but Lamar as a passer is at his best within the structure of the play, always has been, and his biggest plays tend to come when he drops back, sees the opening and just hits it without waiting around for a receiver to uncover
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I agree again and that's my point. Those big plays generally do not look like designed QB runs. Just Lamar seeing an opportunity and immediately taking what the defense gives him. That has nothing to do with Roman, just Lamar being knowledgeable and an athlete.

I will never argue against Roman being the run god. He is exceptional getting to the desired result in the run game. I just think Lamar could and would put up similar or better results with other coordinators.
 
"For Jackson, this could mean three fully guaranteed years worth $135 million to $150 million averaging between $45 million per year and $50 million per year. Jackson would get his security while the Ravens would be on the hook for 60% to 65% of the money the Browns are with Watson. It would probably make sense for Jackson to insist on a clause preventing the Ravens from using a franchise or transition tag on him after the expiration of his contract to ensure maximum leverage in any subsequent contract-extension talks."

Not a bad solution but I'm not sure Lamar would go for this. Not with the possibility of make more next year if he holds out signing.
 
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