Joe Flacco

[rossihunter2]

I think what gets most people is that there are fans who will blindly blame the receivers unless Joe has another SB run.

It wouldn't matter if we had Julio and AJ Green; it wouldn't be enough for people.

The article mentioned that other top tier quarterbacks get all these big name weapons. Not true. Alex Smith is tearing it up with fifth round pick Tyreek Hill and Albert Wilson starting (who?). Ben Roethlisberger has a tight end drafted in the third, and two starting receivers drafted in the fourth and sixth. Philip Rivers has to deal with a rotating cast because Allen is always injured and Mike Williams is out. Travis Benjamin and Tyrell Williams? Terrifying. There's more examples, but the point stands that a good quarterback can make it work with less because at some point, that's what your cap dictates.

Mike Wallace and Jeremy Maclin were quality receivers before Baltimore and I know Maclin was the choice receiver for Ravens fans, but now they're nothing special. They're below average. Ben Watson tore it up in NO before coming to Baltimore, but hey, he sucks.

I cannot get behind the hate for the receivers.

this would be an ok excuse in some cases but its not the qbs making those guys better its those guys being bonafide stars - tyreek hill may be a 5th round pick but he and travis kelce are superstars at this point already and both demand double coverage and extra attention on every snap, antonio brown may have been a 6th round pick once but he's been a superstar for most of his career, as has lev bell - id argue that tyrell williams is our kamar aiken from that 2015 year - he put up numbers but he's not actually a good receiver hence the chargers losing games - they cant quite overcome their injuries even if statistically it seems like theyve found the next man up

this is not me giving joe a free pass im just saying its a little disingenuous to suggest those qbs have worse receiving talent and have made them better - they may have been worse drafted but they very quickly showed themselves to be better than their draft positions and in most cases better than the rest of the league

its hard to argue that mike wallace and jeremy maclin and even ben watson tbh have disappeared - wallace hasnt been getting open, maclin has only been targeted on short range throws and ben watson is very hot and cold (although he was only good for new orleans for 1 year) - these arent bad receivers but they arent in the same class as the guys you mentioned above - but then again they should be able to do something

im not pinning this entirely on the receivers because weve run a few route concepts this year where theyve managed to get themselves wide open but theyve also disappeared - what its showing me is that these guys are good players but they need help from the OC in terms of design

so im gonna hate on the receivers as a collective group for not getting open enough quickly enough and dropping passes, im gonna hate on marty for some uncreative and ineffective play designs and play calling, and im gonna hate on joe for not giving his receivers a chance and for not always going to his 3rd or 4th read even when he has time to and for not putting the ball in the right spot on time a lot

virtually every part of this offence has a problem and i dont excuse the receivers from it

but i disagree with the idea that other big name qbs havent had big name talent around them - i think you'd be hard pressed to suggest these guys dont have big name receivers (even if they were drafed lower) - maybe it suggests that our coaching and scheming just isnt conducive to developing pass catchers of any sorts - i mean who were the last guys we developed who you could argue were top 5 at their skill position? dennis pitta might have been but he got injured before he could properly develop further, ray rice then maybe but before that who? todd heap? that's pretty awful for a team that wants to be a perennial playoff contender in an offensive league

 

[Deebo813]

I love how apologists are ignoring the fact that Flacco took a delay of game in a crucial moment AND knowingly threw the ball while he was past the line of scrimmage. Unacceptable for a 10 year vet, but hey, Super Bowl run 5 years ago.

joe flacco sucks point blank period. No one can tell me he is a good qb. Bottom 3 qb in the lg easily

 

[29BmoreBird22]

Also, one last issue with the article Tank posted and what Eisenberg wrote.

The article Tank posted mentioned five plays and asked what happens if three or four are made to pretty much deflect blame from Flacco.

What if Flacco hits Perriman in stride when he beat Fuller down the sideline? What if Flacco doesn't stare down Moore? What if Flacco has better awareness and throws the ball before crossing the LoS?

See how this works? We can't pick out 5 of 75 plays and say they made the difference and ignore the other 70.

 

[Militant X 1]

I love how apologists are ignoring the fact that Flacco took a delay of game in a crucial moment AND knowingly threw the ball while he was past the line of scrimmage. Unacceptable for a 10 year vet, but hey, Super Bowl run 5 years ago.

Yeah @JAAM. That's all they have left to hold onto. That and all of that "january joe" .

 

[Militant X 1]

Also, one last issue with the article Tank posted and what Eisenberg wrote.

The article Tank posted mentioned five plays and asked what happens if three or four are made to pretty much deflect blame from Flacco.

What if Flacco hits Perriman in stride when he beat Fuller down the sideline? What if Flacco doesn't stare down Moore? What if Flacco has better awareness and throws the ball before crossing the LoS?

See how this works? We can't pick out 5 of 75 plays and say they made the difference and ignore the other 70.

 

[Tank]

lol

 

[rossihunter2]

I love how apologists are ignoring the fact that Flacco took a delay of game in a crucial moment AND knowingly threw the ball while he was past the line of scrimmage. Unacceptable for a 10 year vet, but hey, Super Bowl run 5 years ago.

um ok - the delay of game was inexcusable but i had literally no problem with the throwing the ball past the line of scrimmage one - he had to scramble out of a busted pocket with no receivers open and was 4 yards downfield with no chance at making the td with his legs so i was perfectly fine with him throwing that ball to wallace and not taking a hit there - i dont want my 100 million dollar qb getting lit up on a run play that has no chance of going anywhere - all it did was move the field goal from the 10 yard line to the 15 yard line

 

[Militant X 1]

Flacco =

There! Fixed it for ya!

 

[Tank]

There! Fixed it for ya!

nice!

 

[Tank]

this would be an ok excuse in some cases but its not the qbs making those guys better its those guys being bonafide stars - tyreek hill may be a 5th round pick but he and travis kelce are superstars at this point already and both demand double coverage and extra attention on every snap, antonio brown may have been a 6th round pick once but he's been a superstar for most of his career, as has lev bell - id argue that tyrell williams is our kamar aiken from that 2015 year - he put up numbers but he's not actually a good receiver hence the chargers losing games - they cant quite overcome their injuries even if statistically it seems like theyve found the next man up

this is not me giving joe a free pass im just saying its a little disingenuous to suggest those qbs have worse receiving talent and have made them better - they may have been worse drafted but they very quickly showed themselves to be better than their draft positions and in most cases better than the rest of the league

its hard to argue that mike wallace and jeremy maclin and even ben watson tbh have disappeared - wallace hasnt been getting open, maclin has only been targeted on short range throws and ben watson is very hot and cold (although he was only good for new orleans for 1 year) - these arent bad receivers but they arent in the same class as the guys you mentioned above - but then again they should be able to do something

im not pinning this entirely on the receivers because weve run a few route concepts this year where theyve managed to get themselves wide open but theyve also disappeared - what its showing me is that these guys are good players but they need help from the OC in terms of design

so im gonna hate on the receivers as a collective group for not getting open enough quickly enough and dropping passes, im gonna hate on marty for some uncreative and ineffective play designs and play calling, and im gonna hate on joe for not giving his receivers a chance and for not always going to his 3rd or 4th read even when he has time to and for not putting the ball in the right spot on time a lot

virtually every part of this offence has a problem and i dont excuse the receivers from it

but i disagree with the idea that other big name qbs havent had big name talent around them - i think you'd be hard pressed to suggest these guys dont have big name receivers (even if they were drafed lower) - maybe it suggests that our coaching and scheming just isnt conducive to developing pass catchers of any sorts - i mean who were the last guys we developed who you could argue were top 5 at their skill position? dennis pitta might have been but he got injured before he could properly develop further, ray rice then maybe but before that who? todd heap? that's pretty awful for a team that wants to be a perennial playoff contender in an offensive league

Good post.

 

[Militant X 1]

um ok - the delay of game was inexcusable but i had literally no problem with the throwing the ball past the line of scrimmage one - he had to scramble out of a busted pocket with no receivers open and was 4 yards downfield with no chance at making the td with his legs so i was perfectly fine with him throwing that ball to wallace and not taking a hit there - i dont want my 100 million dollar qb getting lit up on a run play that has no chance of going anywhere - all it did was move the field goal from the 10 yard line to the 15 yard line

I get what you are saying @rossihunter2. But, since he is a 100 million dollar qb...why not just throw the ball away to maintain the field position at the 10 yard line instead of backing it up to the 15?

 

[rossihunter2]

I get what you are saying @rossihunter2. But, since he is a 100 million dollar qb...why not just throw the ball away to maintain the field position at the 10 yard line instead of backing it up to the 15?

he was already past the LoS when that became a choice - i guess the only thing i could say is that maybe he should have just slid in stead but then the clock would have kept running - and i can definitely understand the desire to throw it to an open receiver when he sees that receiver uncovered and no chance to run it in

it's not like im saying it was a good decision to throw it to wallace there - im just not saying it was a terrible decision or emblematic of him being a bad qb whereas a delay of game in that spot is a legitimate criticism

like what im saying is pick your battles here - criticise him for his lack of accuracy on the deep ball to perriman or his inability to throw an intermediate pass with touch at the moment especially down the seams and criticise him for his often late throws

but to kill him for that throw to wallace is just nitpicking of the highest order when it didnt affect the game and makes no difference to anyone's evaluation of flacco - its petty and makes it seem like he's literally wanting flacco to fail and be a failure overall than actually criticising the things he's actually doing wrong that affect the team...

 

[DeVito52]

he was already past the LoS when that became a choice - i guess the only thing i could say is that maybe he should have just slid in stead but then the clock would have kept running - and i can definitely understand the desire to throw it to an open receiver when he sees that receiver uncovered and no chance to run it in

it's not like im saying it was a good decision to throw it to wallace there - im just not saying it was a terrible decision or emblematic of him being a bad qb whereas a delay of game in that spot is a legitimate criticism

like what im saying is pick your battles here - criticise him for his lack of accuracy on the deep ball to perriman or his inability to throw an intermediate pass with touch at the moment especially down the seams and criticise him for his often late throws

but to kill him for that throw to wallace is just nitpicking of the highest order when it didnt affect the game and makes no difference to anyone's evaluation of flacco - its petty and makes it seem like he's literally wanting flacco to fail and be a failure overall than actually criticising the things he's actually doing wrong that affect the team...

Well half these guys do want Flacco to fail lol

 

[Militant X 1]

he was already past the LoS when that became a choice - i guess the only thing i could say is that maybe he should have just slid in stead but then the clock would have kept running - and i can definitely understand the desire to throw it to an open receiver when he sees that receiver uncovered and no chance to run it in

it's not like im saying it was a good decision to throw it to wallace there - im just not saying it was a terrible decision or emblematic of him being a bad qb whereas a delay of game in that spot is a legitimate criticism

like what im saying is pick your battles here - criticise him for his lack of accuracy on the deep ball to perriman or his inability to throw an intermediate pass with touch at the moment especially down the seams and criticise him for his often late throws

but to kill him for that throw to wallace is just nitpicking of the highest order when it didnt affect the game and makes no difference to anyone's evaluation of flacco - its petty and makes it seem like he's literally wanting flacco to fail and be a failure overall than actually criticising the things he's actually doing wrong that affect the team...

I can see your point of view and it is a good one. Kool! I'd like to add mine as well. To me, it is not nit-picky or petty to mention that play. Here's why. Flacco is a veteran and starting QB of 10 years now. He's a Super Bowl winning QB and the MVP of that game. As you called him, he's a 100 million dollar QB as well. He's got to both; know and play better than that. To mention that play along with the delay of game play is just a microcosm of Flacco's ineptness (i.e. the constant over and under throws, the lack of leading receivers, the lack of throwing the ball away to avoid sacks etc.) at the QB position that we've all been witnessing since his glory year of winning the SB.

Now, either Flacco is your man or he's not! And, based upon which one he is to an individual, it will ultimately shape their view and perception of him. I get that! And, for the record, Flacco isn't nor has ever been nor will ever be my guy. However, because he is the Ravens QB, I want him to succeed! I've said that time and time again on the old board and in here. And yet, I don't wear the purple shades or drink the purple kool-aid when it comes to his game play. Sure, let's praise him when he plays well. It's warranted then! But, let's also be open, honest and upfront when he is playing like ass. Because, that is also warranted when he does so.

 

[rossihunter2]

I can see your point of view and it is a good one. Kool! I'd like to add mine as well. To me, it is not nit-picky or petty to mention that play. Here's why. Flacco is a veteran and starting QB of 10 years now. He's a Super Bowl winning QB and the MVP of that game. As you called him, he's a 100 million dollar QB as well. He's got to both; know and play better than that. To mention that play along with the delay of game play is just a microcosm of Flacco's ineptness (i.e. the constant over and under throws, the lack of leading receivers, the lack of throwing the ball away to avoid sacks etc.) at the QB position that we've all been witnessing since his glory year of winning the SB.

Now, either Flacco is your man or he's not! And, based upon which one he is to an individual, it will ultimately shape their view and perception of him. I get that! And, for the record, Flacco isn't nor has ever been nor will ever be my guy. However, because he is the Ravens QB, I want him to succeed! I've said that time and time again on the old board and in here. And yet, I don't wear the purple shades or drink the purple kool-aid when it comes to his game play. Sure, let's praise him when he plays well. It's warranted then! But, let's also be open, honest and upfront when he is playing like ass. Because, that is also warranted when he does so.

i think the problem here is you're framing the flacco debate in the way that, to be fair the whole thread has, in that he is either a great qb or an awful one - and i think there is a middle ground - im afraid that 100 mill dollars is just what you have to pay for a potential franchise qb - its just the way it goes

for me flacco has never been the guy and always been the guy - he just is who we have and ive never felt the need for us to get rid of him nor have i felt entirely comfortable with him being our guy - in that sense i like to think im normally pretty fair about his play - im happy to analyse every play in a good/bad way - im ok with allowing him some praise even when he plays badly in general and vice versa - its never quite as good or bad as it seems with joe (except that jags game jesus)

and just so we're clear im not completely absolving him of guilt for the bears game but i dont think he was close to the biggest problem with the offence vs the bears which is why i find using the play to mike wallace as emblematic of his overall play - because i dont think it was and it was a play that had zero bearing on the rest of the game

id say he was sloppy but not bad against the bears - the players around him gave him nothing to work with in the passing game and while he was late and off target a couple of times he also mostly wasnt

 

[Militant X 1]

i think the problem here is you're framing the flacco debate in the way that, to be fair the whole thread has, in that he is either a great qb or an awful one - and i think there is a middle ground - im afraid that 100 mill dollars is just what you have to pay for a potential franchise qb - its just the way it goes

for me flacco has never been the guy and always been the guy - he just is who we have and ive never felt the need for us to get rid of him nor have i felt entirely comfortable with him being our guy - in that sense i like to think im normally pretty fair about his play - im happy to analyse every play in a good/bad way - im ok with allowing him some praise even when he plays badly in general and vice versa - its never quite as good or bad as it seems with joe (except that jags game jesus)

and just so we're clear im not completely absolving him of guilt for the bears game but i dont think he was close to the biggest problem with the offence vs the bears which is why i find using the play to mike wallace as emblematic of his overall play - because i dont think it was and it was a play that had zero bearing on the rest of the game

id say he was sloppy but not bad against the bears - the players around him gave him nothing to work with in the passing game and while he was late and off target a couple of times he also mostly wasnt

I don't feel that you absolving Flacco for the bears game but neither am I framing the debate to say that Flacco is either a good or awful QB. To me, his game play or the lack thereof is actually framing that! There is no doubt that Flacco had little to no help (in the critical moments) from his receivers vs the bears. And yet, Flacco's own game play was suspect a few plays. That's my focus.

 

[Tank]

I don't feel that you absolving Flacco for the bears game but neither am I framing the debate to say that Flacco is either a good or awful QB. To me, his game play or the lack thereof is actually framing that! There is no doubt that Flacco had little to no help (in the critical moments) from his receivers vs the bears. And yet, Flacco's own game play was suspect a few plays. That's my focus.

Mili........WTF did you just say? lol

 

[Militant X 1]

Mili........WTF did you just say? lol

You tell me Tank!

 

[Tank]

You tell me Tank!

I got nuthin'. It's all good though. :wacko:

 

[Militant X 1]

Just read this. Very nice piece...

https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2...ravens-terrible-offensive-display-this-season