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Joe Flacco

So please, tell me who doesn’t need “the whole shebang”? Who isn’t high maintenance? Who wins without good weapons? I’ll wait. Because you won’t have an answer.

No joe is not elite. Everyone knows that. But to blame him for needing good weapons to win is so fucking stupid that honestly it desolidifies your argument right there.

You sure?...

But you talkin to me?......are u talkin to me? ....cuz I didn't think you was talking to me!

Just for the sake of argument, take a look at the receiving stats for Philly and LA Rams.

Gotta tell ya though. I wanted so bad to open everyone's eyes to our problems once, somehow hoping to head them off at the pass........but now.....its too late and it's hard to care much anymore.
 
No joe is not elite. Everyone knows that..

Nobody really knows that. He's never had Julio, Brown, Green, OBJ, Gronk to throw to; nothing even close to that. He has had a couple years where he had a very solid supporting cast, and when he did, that's when the whole "is he or is he not elite" argument started.
 
I posted this on the other thread but maybe it's more appropriate here. I'm also not about to read 137 pages in hopes the answer is already there...

The first half of the season, I was all for getting out from Flacco's contract as quickly as possible (next offseason). I wanted to get other's opinions on the pros/cons of extending him to free up I think it was $8M+ in space. When he got over the back injury and had a stable line with even mediocre playcalling, he proved to be effective enough that I am not opposed to being tied to him for another 2-3 years. This all assuming we actually address the line and offensive weapons, and draft a potential replacement for a few years from now.

Thoughts?
 
Nobody really knows that. He's never had Julio, Brown, Green, OBJ, Gronk to throw to; nothing even close to that. He has had a couple years where he had a very solid supporting cast, and when he did, that's when the whole "is he or is he not elite" argument started.

Which 1 of those receivers made their QB elite?
 
Well, Rodgers is possibly the best qb since 2000. He's had some really good WRs. How many Super Bowl trophies does he have? One trophy, and one Super Bowl MVP award.

Even the best qb in the league can't single handedly carry his team to multiple championships.

Yet people expect Flacco to carry the team while throwing to Wallace and Chris Moore.
 
I posted this on the other thread but maybe it's more appropriate here. I'm also not about to read 137 pages in hopes the answer is already there...

The first half of the season, I was all for getting out from Flacco's contract as quickly as possible (next offseason). I wanted to get other's opinions on the pros/cons of extending him to free up I think it was $8M+ in space. When he got over the back injury and had a stable line with even mediocre playcalling, he proved to be effective enough that I am not opposed to being tied to him for another 2-3 years. This all assuming we actually address the line and offensive weapons, and draft a potential replacement for a few years from now.

Thoughts?
In my opinion it would be a mistake to extend Joe to free up more cap space now. All that does is push the problem to another season, which we do too often. I would prefer the Ravens to draft a quarterback in the first four rounds this year. We need a backup and this would be an economical way to obtain one. Hopefully that quarterback could sit and learn the system in 2018 and be an option going forward. Joe’s salary for 2019 is $ 18,500,000, for 2020 it is $ 20,250,000 and $ 24,250, 000 for 2021. I am not looking to get rid of Flacco. He is a good quarterback but I would prefer to have an option in case we need it.
 
You sure?...

But you talkin to me?......are u talkin to me? ....cuz I didn't think you was talking to me!

Just for the sake of argument, take a look at the receiving stats for Philly and LA Rams.

Gotta tell ya though. I wanted so bad to open everyone's eyes to our problems once, somehow hoping to head them off at the pass........but now.....its too late and it's hard to care much anymore.
What? Yes I’m talking to you? Do you need me to speak slower for you? Do you need me to read it to you? What the hell are you saying? Are you’ve trying to tell me the Eagles’ QBs didn’t have an insane amount of weapons this year? What are you smoking? The Eagles are literally one of the teams that you 100% cannot say that the QB did it on his own. There’s a reason they won the super bowl. There’s a reason Nick Foles was able to play so well. How many brain cells do you have?
 
Well, Rodgers is possibly the best qb since 2000. He's had some really good WRs. How many Super Bowl trophies does he have? One trophy, and one Super Bowl MVP award.

Even the best qb in the league can't single handedly carry his team to multiple championships.

Yet people expect Flacco to carry the team while throwing to Wallace and Chris Moore.

Check where most of Rodgers teams defenses have finished and you'll see why for the most part they can't get over the hump.

@flynismo he's not elite and how many of those targets have elite qbs? The same argument could be made he's not doing much to help his wrs either. When and where a ball is placed can have a huge impact on the difference between a catch and a drop... and yes, his guys have failed him, but he's done his share to set them back as well.
 
Check where most of Rodgers teams defenses have finished and you'll see why for the most part they can't get over the hump.

@flynismo he's not elite and how many of those targets have elite qbs? The same argument could be made he's not doing much to help his wrs either. When and where a ball is placed can have a huge impact on the difference between a catch and a drop... and yes, his guys have failed him, but he's done his share to set them back as well.
And our defense has given up quite a last minute touchdowns after Flacco got a late lead. Besides, the point was that even great qbs can't overcome major issues on their team.
 
Check where most of Rodgers teams defenses have finished and you'll see why for the most part they can't get over the hump.

@flynismo he's not elite and how many of those targets have elite qbs? The same argument could be made he's not doing much to help his wrs either. When and where a ball is placed can have a huge impact on the difference between a catch and a drop... and yes, his guys have failed him, but he's done his share to set them back as well.
No receivers that failed in Baltimore went anywhere else to improve with other QBs, in fact most just faded away to the couch.

Fly’s original point was that we don’t know Flacco’s ceiling because he’s never had guys that consistently helped by making plays week after week, year in year out. Guys like Brown, Gronk, Amendola, Diggs, Aglohor, etc., etc., etc.. Those guys aren’t always catching perfectly placed balls, they are leaping, adjusting, toe tapping, flat out making plays.

What we do know is that when Joe has has had some confidence in decent receivers and got in a rhythm he’s as good as many QBs in the league. If he had a couple of guys for an extended period of time similar to the ones mentioned and like all of the best QBs have, chances are chemistry is formed, rhythm, timing is better, balls are placed better, etc..
 
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No receivers that failed in Baltimore went anywhere else to improve with other QBs, in fact most just faded away to the couch.

Fly’s original point was that we don’t know Flacco’s ceiling because he’s never had guys that consistently helped by making plays week after week, year in year out. Guys like Brown, Gronk, Amendola, Diggs, Aglohor, etc., etc., etc.. Those guys aren’t always catching perfectly placed balls, they are leaping, adjusting, toe tapping, flat out making plays.

What we do know is that when Joe has has had some confidence in decent receivers and got in a rhythm he’s as good as many QBs in the league. If he had a couple of guys for an extended period of time similar to the ones mentioned and like all of the best QBs have, chances are chemistry is formed, rhythm, timing is better, balls are placed better, etc..

And my point is you all are making assumptions because his play has always been inconsistent regardless of the cast of around him. This is pointless cause I'm not going to see things your way for the most part and you won't see them how I do.
 
And my point is you all are making assumptions because his play has always been inconsistent regardless of the cast of around him. This is pointless cause I'm not going to see things your way for the most part and you won't see them how I do.
Right, and right. And you are making assumptions as well. Difference being that the assumptions being made that Joe’s play would improve and be consistent with better receivers is backed up by the fact that Joe did perform well and was consistent, historically consistent, when he had half decent guys consistently making plays. For me assuming that he would remain inconsistent has no basis in fact as he’s never had what other QBs have, so how would one know? But again you are right, this discussion is pointless as it has been going on for years without change. lol

It would seem though that its factual that the Ravens have suffered at the WR and TE positions forever and it also seems it would logically follow that having “A level” receivers like all high performing offenses have would also improve the Ravens’ passing game.
 
It would seem though that its factual that the Ravens have suffered at the WR and TE positions forever and it also seems it would logically follow that having “A level” receivers like all high performing offenses have would also improve the Ravens’ passing game.

As far as Joe is concerned, he'll never win with the fans here. If we actually did go out and find him a top tier player in his prime, then we'd hear about how that guy just makes Flacco look good.

I wish people here would actually watch other teams play, because it is obvious they do not. If they did, they would see certain things, like how Brady is absolute garbage if he has to move around in the pocket, and they'll see how guys like James White takes a two yard dump off and jukes his way downfield for 30+ yards. They'll see little things, like the effect that Gronk powering his way for an extra 3 yards for a first down has on a game. They'll see that a great offense is like the Musketeers; all for one and one for all...nobody looks good unless everyone is doing their jobs.

If people see these things and acknowledge it, and STILL have a double standard about Flacco needing competent support, well...whatever.
 
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