As Terrell Davis Gets Inducted into the HOF...

[JoeyFlex5]

can someone make a legitimate argument as to why TD deserves it but Jamal Lewis doesn't?

The numbers, the footage, and the lack of supporting cast all lean in Jamal's favor. Touchdowns are literally the only place where TD bypasses him, and that can largely be contributed to the kubiak stretch zone scheme which he was born of.

Not to say I think Jamal is a hall of famer, but I don't think TD is either. Imo he is one of the more overrated players in history. Oh he would've been better had he not gotten injuries? Speculation, plenty of players would have been better if not for injuries.

 

[Adreme]

He carried the Broncos to 2 super bowl titles whereas Jamal's best seasons were AFTER the Ravens won the Super Bowl (in fact if I remember right he was a rookie that year).

 

[K-Dog]

Jamal's incarceration ?

:shrugs:

 

[Oldfaithful]

I think TD is a hall of famer. There's a legit argument to be made that he was the best player on two super bowl teams and there was two hall of famers including Donkey Face who's one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, and Shannon Sharpe who's a great player in his own right. Donkey Face was on the decline. Both have some of the best seasons of all time, but Davis' was for an MVP and won them a super bowl. Lewis was never the best player on a championship team. In fact the irony is Sharpe was the best offensive player we had during the super bowl run. Lewis didn't come close to being the best overall player during the super bowl run.

Lewis is borderline hall of fame, but you're being unfair to TD. He was probably the best RB in the NFL during his prime. Lewis was always top 5, but always in the shadow of Faulk, Alexander, Tomlinson, etc.

I personally don't mind Davis being there at all.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

He carried the Broncos to 2 super bowl titles whereas Jamal's best seasons were AFTER the Ravens won the Super Bowl (in fact if I remember right he was a rookie that year).

Jamal didn't carry our offense that year? Lol are you familiar with that season?

Also, those overall offenses were great, TD didn't face 8-9 man boxes nearly as much as Jamal did. Elway to sharpe and mcaffrey in their Better days, in a Gary kubiak offense, as opposed to Kyle boller/Anthony wright/tony banks/stony case/Chris redman to... whoever the fuck, in a billick offense. One has a dream scenario and the other couldn't ask for a shittier supporting cast, yet still outperformed him and was incredibly consistent with 7 1000 yard seasons out of 9, one of those down seasons was shortened by injury where he played 15 games with 906 yards, the other was his final season with Cleveland, and actually a few of those seasons he went well over 1000 yards despite having a shortened season. TD was the focal point of an all around excellent team, Jamal Lewis carried the entire offense when he was here, without him we probably don't make the playoffs EVER before the harbaugh era.

 

[Adreme]

Jamal didn't carry our offense that year? Lol are you familiar with that season?

Also, those overall offenses were great, TD didn't face 8-9 man boxes nearly as much as Jamal did. Elway to sharpe and mcaffrey in their primes, in a Gary kubiak offense, as opposed to Kyle boller/Anthony wright/tony banks/stony case/Chris redman to... whoever the fuck, in a billick offense. One has a dream scenario and the other couldn't ask for a shittier supporting cast, yet still outperformed him and was incredibly consistent with 7 1000 yard seasons out of 9, one of those down seasons was shortened by injury where he played 15 games with 906 yards, the other was his final season with Cleveland, and actually a few of those seasons he went well over 1000 yards despite having a shortened season. TD was the focal point of an all around excellent team, Jamal Lewis carried the entire offense when he was here, without him we probably don't make the playoffs EVER before the harbaugh era.

If that is called carrying the offense then he did a terrible job of it because the offense was horrible. He had almost 1400 yards rushing the year the Ravens won the SB whereas Davis had 1750 and 2000 respectively. The Ravens won that SB on a historically good defense (possibly best ever) whereas Davis was considered the reason they won the Super Bowl.

 

[Oldfaithful]

Jamal didn't carry our offense that year? Lol are you familiar with that season?

Also, those overall offenses were great, TD didn't face 8-9 man boxes nearly as much as Jamal did. Elway to sharpe and mcaffrey in their Better days, in a Gary kubiak offense, as opposed to Kyle boller/Anthony wright/tony banks/stony case/Chris redman to... whoever the fuck, in a billick offense. One has a dream scenario and the other couldn't ask for a shittier supporting cast, yet still outperformed him and was incredibly consistent with 7 1000 yard seasons out of 9, one of those down seasons was shortened by injury where he played 15 games with 906 yards, the other was his final season with Cleveland, and actually a few of those seasons he went well over 1000 yards despite having a shortened season. TD was the focal point of an all around excellent team, Jamal Lewis carried the entire offense when he was here, without him we probably don't make the playoffs EVER before the harbaugh era.

Davis won a super bowl MVP, and a regular season MVP and was still the best offensive player on a team with two hall of famers. Jamal was integral to our super bowl run, but Sharpe was still the best offensive player on that team. His prime he was a dominant player. Jamal was great, but not nearly as good.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I think TD is a hall of famer. There's a legit argument to be made that he was the best player on two super bowl teams and there was two hall of famers including Donkey Face who's one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, and Shannon Sharpe who's a great player in his own right. Donkey Face was on the decline. Both have some of the best seasons of all time, but Davis' was for an MVP and won them a super bowl. Lewis was never the best player on a championship team. In fact the irony is Sharpe was the best offensive player we had during the super bowl run. Lewis didn't come close to being the best overall player during the super bowl run.

Lewis is borderline hall of fame, but you're being unfair to TD. He was probably the best RB in the NFL during his prime. Lewis was always top 5, but always in the shadow of Faulk, Alexander, Tomlinson, etc.

I personally don't mind Davis being there at all.

being in the shadow of another player should never be an indictment on said player, just a testament to the better ones. If TD was in his prime when those guys were then I don't think TD is the best back in the league either, of the 3 you named he was only better than Alexander, hell when TD was in his prime there wasn't stellar rb play around the league period, the quality of rb play really ramped up in the 2000s. I mean who did you really have in that late 90s era aside from Barry, Curtis Martin and emmitt smith? And Barry should barely be counted at that point anyway

 

[redrum52]

The only thing I can think of is TD was lucky enough to get injured before people could really see him fall off. As we've seen, anyone can basically look good in that Kubiak offense. Jamal was doing this as the focal point without wideouts and a qb for the defense to worry about. I support your rant @JoeyFlex5.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Davis won a super bowl MVP, and a regular season MVP and was still the best offensive player on a team with two hall of famers. Jamal was integral to our super bowl run, but Sharpe was still the best offensive player on that team. His prime he was a dominant player. Jamal was great, but not nearly as good.

Again, don't see how "other player was better" is an argument.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

If that is called carrying the offense then he did a terrible job of it because the offense was horrible. He had almost 1400 yards rushing the year the Ravens won the SB whereas Davis had 1750 and 2000 respectively. The Ravens won that SB on a historically good defense (possibly best ever) whereas Davis was considered the reason they won the Super Bowl.

Are you really gonna hold the overall performance of those offenses, led by the likes of tony banks, Kyle boller, and Anthony wright against him, and then disregard TDs supporting cast just because he was the focal point?

That's a blind argument if I've ever seen one

 

[JoeyFlex5]

The only thing I can think of is TD was lucky enough to get injured before people could really see him fall off. As we've seen, anyone can basically look good in that Kubiak offense. Jamal was doing this as the focal point without wideouts and a qb for the defense to worry about. I support your rant @JoeyFlex5.

Thank you, find it hard to believe that people who watched Jamal weekly would disagree, the prison time is the only thing I can think of.

And the crazy thing is, Jamal rushed consistently for 1000 yards on 2 teams with absolutely horrible supporting casts, for a much longer time, and with his fair share of injuries as well.

This argument is 100% hype from the 2 super bowl years and love for TD as a character, and disdain for Jamal because of his one off field incident, but shit we all knew rays story and he's gonna be a first ballot.

 

[Oldfaithful]

being in the shadow of another player should never be an indictment on said player, just a testament to the better ones. If TD was in his prime when those guys were then I don't think TD is the best back in the league either, of the 3 you named he was only better than Alexander, hell when TD was in his prime there wasn't stellar rb play around the league period, the quality of rb play really ramped up in the 2000s. I mean who did you really have in that late 90s era aside from Barry, Curtis Martin and emmitt smith? And Barry should barely be counted at that point anyway

Yeah, no one in the late nineties. Just arguably the greatest running back of all time, the NFL's all time leading rusher, and another hall of famer in Martin. No big deal lol.

He was still the best player on a team with two hall of famers and was the best team on two super bowl teams. Jamal wasn't the best offensive player on the Ravens, let alone the best player period. Sure, Davis had more help, but guys like Andy Dalton have had elite supporting casts and he couldn't win a fucking playoff game with it. Having a great supporting cast is one thing, doing something with it is another. I could be a surprise appointment to Microsoft to replace whoever the current CEO is and have the advisory of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Warren Buffet, and Mark Cuban and still fuck shit up because I'm just not good enough. Davis won the super bowl as the best player, and he did it twice. All while having one of the ten greatest QBs of all time on the team, who couldn't get the job done despite appearances of his own without him. That helps his legacy big time. Remember, the Broncos made the Super bowl before Davis got there and lost each time. Lewis was a focal point of the ravens offense, but there was a large period during that year where Matt Stover literally was the offensive in spite of us having a pretty solid offensive line and not a bad supporting cast that year(Sharpe was a great #1 option, with Stokley and Ismeal being solid WRs. Make no mistake. WE have a Joe Flacco type QB that year and we likely go undefeated. The offensive woes mostly came from a lack of QB, and we don't even make the playoffs with that defensE).

Sorry. Davis had a better career than Lewis and I loved watching Jamal growing up. I get why Davis is in the hall of fame. Being the best player for two championship teams automatically puts you in contention at the very least. Add in one of the best seasons for a RB in NFL history during that time helps his legacy. A regular season MVP, puts him over the top, and a super bowl MVP makes it undeniable. He's a hall of famer even with a short career. Little doubt in my mind. Jamal had a few great years, but was never the player Davis was. Say what you will about "Jamal never had the supporting cast". If Jamal had won a super bowl and he was the best player on a team with the likes of Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, but a shit show for an offense, then people would be praising him for overcoming adversity to get there. Why? Usually teams who win championships have to go through adversity to get there. Davis did it, and he did it twice and was the best player on both of those teams.

 

[Oldfaithful]

Thank you, find it hard to believe that people who watched Jamal weekly would disagree, the prison time is the only thing I can think of.

And the crazy thing is, Jamal rushed consistently for 1000 yards on 2 teams with absolutely horrible supporting casts, for a much longer time, and with his fair share of injuries as well.

This argument is 100% hype from the 2 super bowl years and love for TD as a character, and disdain for Jamal because of his one off field incident, but shit we all knew rays story and he's gonna be a first ballot.

Really? Bringing Ray into this. Ray is a top 10 defensive player in NFL history and most would argue top 5. He could have gotten away with being a serial killer and after he was tried OJ style could have immediately confessed to doing it after being found not guilty and he still would be a guarenteed first ballot hall of famer. Lewis was a very good running back. Top 5 most of his career, but Davis was simply better even if his career was shorter.

 

[redrum52]

Thank you, find it hard to believe that people who watched Jamal weekly would disagree, the prison time is the only thing I can think of.

And the crazy thing is, Jamal rushed consistently for 1000 yards on 2 teams with absolutely horrible supporting casts, for a much longer time, and with his fair share of injuries as well.

This argument is 100% hype from the 2 super bowl years and love for TD as a character, and disdain for Jamal because of his one off field incident, but shit we all knew rays story and he's gonna be a first ballot.

I don't think people are very fond of rbs who are peddling coke *allegedly* especially when they played for Baltimore. A very good case could be made, but your efforts will be wasted.

Agree with you on the last part. The 2000 yards and the 2 SBs with his character has definitely helped him as we see TO watching from the outside in.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Yeah, no one in the late nineties. Just arguably the greatest running back of all time, the NFL's all time leading rusher, and another hall of famer in Martin. No big deal lol.

He was still the best player on a team with two hall of famers and was the best team on two super bowl teams. Jamal wasn't the best offensive player on the Ravens, let alone the best player period. Sure, Davis had more help, but guys like Andy Dalton have had elite supporting casts and he couldn't win a fucking playoff game with it. Having a great supporting cast is one thing, doing something with it is another. I could be a surprise appointment to Microsoft to replace whoever the current CEO is and have the advisory of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Warren Buffet, and Mark Cuban and still fuck shit up because I'm just not good enough. Davis won the super bowl as the best player, and he did it twice. All while having one of the ten greatest QBs of all time on the team, who couldn't get the job done despite appearances of his own without him. That helps his legacy big time. Remember, the Broncos made the Super bowl before Davis got there and lost each time. Lewis was a focal point of the ravens offense, but there was a large period during that year where Matt Stover literally was the offensive in spite of us having a pretty solid offensive line and not a bad supporting cast that year(Sharpe was a great #1 option, with Stokley and Ismeal being solid WRs. Make no mistake. WE have a Joe Flacco type QB that year and we likely go undefeated. The offensive woes mostly came from a lack of QB, and we don't even make the playoffs with that defensE).

Sorry. Davis had a better career than Lewis and I loved watching Jamal growing up. I get why Davis is in the hall of fame. Being the best player for two championship teams automatically puts you in contention at the very least. Add in one of the best seasons for a RB in NFL history during that time helps his legacy. A regular season MVP, puts him over the top, and a super bowl MVP makes it undeniable. He's a hall of famer even with a short career. Little doubt in my mind. Jamal had a few great years, but was never the player Davis was. Say what you will about "Jamal never had the supporting cast". If Jamal had won a super bowl and he was the best player on a team with the likes of Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, but a shit show for an offense, then people would be praising him for overcoming adversity to get there. Why? Usually teams who win championships have to go through adversity to get there. Davis did it, and he did it twice and was the best player on both of those teams.

Ok so Curtis Martin who never won a super bowl at all makes it in, if your metric is to be the best player on super bowl winning teams then what happened there? I just don't understand your argument that Jamal(as a rookie) being the 2nd best offensive player on our SB team is what makes his career inferior to TDs.

Don't get me wrong, I understand he carried the load, but he had surrounding players who could move the chains in the event that he couldn't. No one player can do it on their own. They don't win either of those Super Bowls with Trent dilfer at qb. And I also don't see how you can hold it against Jamal that our defense won that super bowl, how is that a knock against Jamal? He was the biggest producer on our offense that year period, gained the most yards and was responsible for the most points scored of all of our offensive players, on a great defensive team. When Jamal is unable to convert a first down, he didn't have john elway to make a key throw to convert so he could continue to carry the load, Jamal almost needed to convert every time because the qbs sure as hell weren't gonna do him any favors.

Best player on the team be damned, he produced more with less for a much longer time

 

[Oldfaithful]

I will agree that TO not being in the hall of fame is utter bullshit

 

[29BmoreBird22]

The thing with TD is that he was only getting better every single year. I truly believe if the injuries don't happen, he could have been one of the best ever.

Four years straight he ups his yardage and his touchdowns while also upping his YPA three years in a row.

I'm surprised he got in because he played for four years, essentially. I don't think that's long enough to be worthy of the HoF.

But at the same time, I'm not putting Jamal Lewis in there, either.

 

[redrum52]

Really? Bringing Ray into this. Ray is a top 10 defensive player in NFL history and most would argue top 5. He could have gotten away with being a serial killer and after he was tried OJ style could have immediately confessed to doing it after being found not guilty and he still would be a guarenteed first ballot hall of famer. Lewis was a very good running back. Top 5 most of his career, but Davis was simply better even if his career was shorter.

I love Ray and I might get some heat for this... I don't know if he's top 10 all time. I would actually put Reed above him on an all time list.

 

[Oldfaithful]

Ok so Curtis Martin who never won a super bowl at all makes it in, if your metric is to be the best player on super bowl winning teams then what happened there? I just don't understand your argument that Jamal(as a rookie) being the 2nd best offensive player on our SB team is what makes his career inferior to TDs.

Don't get me wrong, I understand he carried the load, but he had surrounding players who could move the chains in the event that he couldn't. No one player can do it on their own. They don't win either of those Super Bowls with Trent dilfer at qb. And I also don't see how you can hold it against Jamal that our defense won that super bowl, how is that a knock against Jamal? He was the biggest producer on our offense that year period, gained the most yards and was responsible for the most points scored of all of our offensive players, on a great defensive team. When Jamal is unable to convert a first down, he didn't have john elway to make a key throw to convert so he could continue to carry the load, Jamal almost needed to convert every time because the qbs sure as hell weren't gonna do him any favors.

Best player on the team be damned, he produced more with less for a much longer time

More stats? Yes. More championships? No. It's why history will look back at Eli Manning being better than Phillip Rivers even though Rivers is probably the better QB. Yet, the Giants have put Eli in position to possibly win another one and if he does. His HOF status is set in stone while I'm not sure Rivers gets in even though I think he's great. Rings matter. Being the best player on championship teams matters. Being a key component of a team's success when they couldn't get over the hump without you, matters. Stats will only take you so far unless you're a Dan Marino type, and you single handedly change the game in the long run. Neither of these two did that and we haven't had a running back do that since Marshall faulk.

And besides I think having one of the best defenses ever counts as having a good supporting cast as well. The defense did Jamal a ton of favors for most of his career. Like I said, for most of Jamal's career, we were a QB away from a dynasty.