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Discussion in 'Ravens Talk' started by rossihunter2, Apr 25, 2020.
Thread for post-draft general thoughts - mostly ravens (but not strictly just ravens)
I just wanna say that I think the team got a whole lot better after free agency and the draft. I think it would be literally impossible for anyone to say otherwise.
When you look at everyone we've brought it and the only people we lost were yanda, pierce, Roberts, peanut, Bynes, and wormley, that seems like a big time improvement. Only part that's sad is yanda retiring because I think we've got a good chance next year!
Based strictly on value, as in where we got the player vs where they could’ve went, with positional value weighed.
Phillips: can’t say
Bredeson: can’t say
Washington: can’t say
Idk about those 3 because I hadn’t watched them at all. But everyone else is just an unbelievable steal.
Queen is a guy I’ve been very high on, ceiling through the roof and mentally he’s top notch and I have little concerns other than proper tackling. He single handedly modernized a front seven tHaTs been stuck in the 90s literally forever.
Dobbins has a floor of basically being a 1000 yard back every year in this system and a ceiling of 1800+ scrimmage yards and double digit TDs, he wasn’t my favorite back which was Edwards helaire, but he’s cut from the same cloth and may be a better pure runner, he could’ve went anywhere in R2 and it would’ve made sense.
Madubuike I had a first round to mid second grade on, I felt like he had no business being available at 55 but we got him much later, and his position is highly valued. a guy I peg as a slam dunk starter and brings valuable versatility by physically being capable of whatever you ask him, athletic, powerful, brings a lethal set of moves based on his powerful extensions and has elite flexibility and awareness. Look to see this guy playing the 5, 4, 3, and nose for us in all packages. I fully believe we’ve found our DL mainstay for the next ten years with this guy.
duvernay is a fun fit, elite YAC weapon, elite speed, elite hands, absolutely no pedigree as a route runner though, hoping that with his fire he dives in and learns the route tree, he’s got Steve smith potential but could just as easily become Corey Coleman. Ceiling based grade with a boost because he’s an elite returner and we need one desperately
Harrison is a classic thumper but not in an out of style way. He’s got the awareness and length to hold up in coverage despite lacking range, very smart downhill LB who is still comfortable dropping, some good coaching and we could see Harrison executing the same bump and drop style zone coverage we saw from mosley. Extremely physical and hard hitting, real tone setter, and will put a hurting on RBs frequently and the same for qbs when he improv blitzes. Him and Queen are a beautiful tandem.
Phillips is a mammoth, not an athlete, but an absolute mammoth and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him starting at G this year, such a mauler, that’s as deep as I can go.
bredeson I have nothing on
same with Washington, I like his build though, he looks like he could be a real pocket pusher with length to cause problems in the pocket
Proche is a technician who I’ve called the best hands in the class for a while now. Total steal, fourth or fifth rounder
stone is a third round safety at worst, inexcusable fall. He diagnoses within the first few steps if the play is gonna happen in front of him or behind him, and he breaks like a missile to do what he’s gotta do to make the play, and when the play is gonna be in front of him, man he looks special. Total steal.
I fucking love this class. This is the single best class I’ve ever seen from this team outside of 2018, and I NEVERRR feel this good about a class.
I like the Ravens class, it looks good, but important to remember drafts are judged by a calendar and not a stop watch
I think our choice of WRs really made a statement of what we want to do next year. I believe we're gonna field a more chiefs like offense than last year albeit still being extremely dedicated to the run.
Poor ESPN.... what a missed opportunity to talk about a sad tragedy in the life of a football player who is about to be drafted.
That might be the only positive thing of the Draft being over, no more ESPN having no shame just telling the world how sad a players' life was.
Quick Snap pick grades - Prospect+Value
lots of As
the 2 A+s were absolute steals based on my board and where we actually got them - Madubuike we took nearly 50 spots later than where I had him ranked, similarly Bredeson we took over 60 spots after where I had him ranked - I'm much more bullish on Madubuike than Bredeson but I think both have a chance to be immediate contributors
Proche and Harrison were also major steals where we picked them
EDC did an amazing job in general of just allowing the board to come to him and just taking advantage of other teams panicking - and he just let the value and players fall into his lap
disappointing not to pick up an EDGE - but tbh there were only 4 or 5 who would have been likely to have any impact early in their careers - was a pretty awful EDGE class tbh
It can't be strictly about the playoff loss but that game appears to have really influenced at least parts of the draft to my mind.
1) get a stud LB round one. Think you're going to come off combo and block him? good luck. he's a speed reader and and will slip blocks in space
2) get a running partner that will come to the LOS and hit you in the mouth and who showed more and more instinct and athleticism as the year progressed
Both LB's are yet to play their best football
3) we are the bullies up front. D line rotation will see to that and Madabuike holds up AND brings the heat
4) two receivers that can return kicks and have great hands. thats the key to me. drops can't happen especially in the post season.
5) Dobbins is a 3 down back ...sticks his foot in the ground and goes..great upside.
the luxury we have right now is that with all the pieces we suddenly have in the front 7 we're not going to be caught in bad looks but we also have the ability to rotate and substitute and put guys in positions to succeed - madubuike might not be consistent as an every-down player right now but what he adds immediately is a bite to the interior pass rush with his dynamic athleticism and violent force
I think the ravens have the best defense in the league by a strong margin after this offseason. And the key is versatility. With Queen and Clark we will never get caught up in a mismatch in the front seven, and with our DL we will never get bullied in sub packages if they run out of the hurry up. We now have pass rush across the front, and we still have wink to create when we’re struggling with 4. The secondary allows this to work. We’re so dynamic and brutish all at once.
I think for one year while it’s all together with the likes of Campbell and still having Judon, we are gonna be one of those modern historical defenses, with the likes of the 2013 Seahawks and 2015 broncos and 2019 niners.
I wonder how many other GMs, Coaches and Scouts feel this way....
Last years draft aside from hollywood was ....
this years..so, so, much better.
I posted on fb that the ravens and broncos had the best draft classes, my stepdad commented that I think every ravens draft is the best class, I said no the hell I don’t and used last year as a reference lol
All from Nate Bulger's scouting report on strengths, weaknesses, summary on the players you haven't watched. FYI
STRENGTHS: Looks the part with a thick trunk...generates power from his legs and hips to uproot defenders...runs his feet through contact once locked on, redirectingdefenders...stays balanced in his pass sets, taking efficient steps to stay square to his target...flexible coil with active hands to connect with his punch...instinctive blocker with his eyes in the right place...rarely block searching, which speaks to his motor and intelligence...high level intangibles and voted a team captain as a junior and senior Harbaugh: “He takes it real seriously...he’s very dedicated.”...started games over his career.
WEAKNESSES: Short arms, hindering his ability to fend off long-armed defenders...not an explosive mover and legs appear heavy...mediocre hip snap...doesn’t play with much range, showing some rigidness and body control issues in his open-field movements...initial and recovery quickness are average, lagging when attempting to counter...stubborn hands, but will sacrifice his balance at times...loses the leverage battle too early in the rep...only played left guard in college.
SUMMARY: A four-year starter at Michigan, Bredeson lined up at left guard in offensive coordinator Josh Gattis’ spread, pro-style scheme. One of the few two-time
team captains in Michigan history, football is important to him, playing with a killer instinct and the mature toughness that translates to the pros. Bredeson is a savvy, power-based blocker, who can create a surge with his hands. However, his initial reflex is to react with his hands, not his feet, which will tie him up vs. quick rushers at the snap. Overall, Bredeson displays the lower body tightness and athletic concerns that likely limit him to a phone booth in the NFL, but he is experienced, strong and tough-minded, showing the starting-level positional traits for a power-running scheme.
STRENGTHS: Massive, wide-bodied blocker with thick legs and hips...unloads on down blocks, clearing run lanes...latches and drives his feet to steer defenders away from the ball...doesn’t allow himself to be bullied at the point-of-attack, absorbing and passing off rushers...comfortable on his feet and plays with balance in his movements...better-than-expected straight-line quickness...powerful hands to slow and sustain rushers in pass protection...coachable and if he doesn’t make it, it won’t be because he didn’t work hard enough...has experience at guard and both tackle spots.
WEAKNESSES: Carries some sloppy weight in his midsection and body conditioning requires monitoring...often finds his upper half overextended while searching for contact...doesn’t always bring his heavy feet with him...lateral range is not a strength to his game...a misstep in space is a death sentence vs. speed rushers...needs to play with better bend to sink his pads and improve his leverage...inconsistent timing off the snap penalized six times in , including three false starts...hand placement and recoil quickness need to be better...tends to wear down later in games...only one season as a starter at the FBS-level and needs development time.
SUMMARY: A one-year starter at Mississippi State, Phillips lined up at left tackle in former head coach Joe Moorehead’s up-tempo scheme. After only one season of high school experience and two years at the juco level, he earned his “Big Country” nickname weighed almost pounds when he arrived in Starkville and is still young in football years, serving as the Bulldogs’ sixth lineman in before becoming the starter in . Phillips owns impressive body mass and heavy hands to generate a surge in the run game. While a more balanced mover than most his size, he doesn’t have ideal lateral agility and is too much of a waist-bender, leading to mistakes. Overall, Phillips is a heavy athlete and might struggle to handle all of his pass protection responsibilities outside at tackle, but he annoys defenders with his length and hand strength, projecting as a backup tackle or guard who should eventually push for starting reps.
STRENGTHS: Powerful first step to force his way through gaps...extends to lock out, stack and work off contact, showing off his functional strength...owns the lateral footwork to work the edges and contain the run game...lower body flexibility to sink and finish in small quarters...plays with steady energy, but also discipline (zero penalties in ...his coaches rave about his team-first, business-like approach and say he will be a successful head coach one day...voted a two-year team captain...durable and finished his college career with straight starts.
WEAKNESSES: Adequate size that holds up better in the Big 12 compared to the NFL...doesn’t surprise blockers with his initial quickness...unimaginative pass rusher, relying on power...struggles to counter and patch together a rush sequence to affect the quarterback...heavy-legged and not a rangy player...below average backfield production relative to his career snaps...plays with instincts, but is still learning how to play the position...stayed healthy in college, but injured a pectoral during his bench press at the combine and was unable to finish his workout (February 2020).
SUMMARY: A three-year starter at Texas Tech, Washington played multiple interior positions in defensive coordinator Keith Patterson’s even and odd fronts. He made the transition from offensive line to defensive line in Lubbock and learned under four different D-line coaches since he arrived, growing into one of the team leaders. Washington started every game the last three seasons (and played at least 70 percent of snaps each year), using his leverage, aggressive hands and ball radar to be productive. While he plays with balance, he won’t be able to out-will and overpower NFL blockers like he could in the Big 12. Overall, Washington is a one- dimensional pass rusher, but he is a nasty, tough-minded trench player who never shuts it down and competes with power, projecting as a scheme-versatile nose.
The common thread I found on reading the scouting reports on all our picks are that the majority of players we picked were all Captains on their college teams. That is how you build a locker room filled with high character guys. High character builds high character!
Posted Lost In Translations Offseason Grades in the Free Agent Signings thread as well as here
We didn’t make a lot of key signings/resignings, and outside of Yanda we didn’t really lose anyone so let’s keep this short and sweet.
Free Agent Signings
Calias Campbell, DE/DT/Edge: A++
This isn’t fair. Players like this can play good forever because he’s so freakishly athletic that even when it starts to decline he’ll still be on another level compared to everyone else. Freakish athleticism isn’t his best trait: he’s a technician and he understands how to play football. He may be old but we have 3 more years to win it. With him, our chances increase tenfold. You gave up NOTHING to do it. NOTHING. You’re not going to find a player in the fifth round better. This wasn’t a steal, it was the heist of the decade. Eric DeCosta, even if he goes on to be a hall of fame GM like Ozzie will never make a move this good again.
Derek Wolfe: DE: B
I’ve always liked Derek Wolfe. He’s always played like a Raven. He’s not a stud by any means necessary, but he’s something very valuable to every team: a very good role player. Every super bowl team has had a guy like this in some capacity. He’s willing to get down in the dirty, and do some hard work. He’s a good all around player, who’s really good at everything but not great. That said, his attitude on the field is the epitome of a Raven. He’d be an A grade if he could stay healthy.
And now to the Draft
Round One: Patrick Queen, ILB, Ravens
For the first time ever, I got our first round pick correct. There’s a thing called an identity pick, and Queen is your modern day LB who plays like a Raven. He’s smart, fast, instinctive, and aggressive. I never trusted him to take on NFL Guards, he’s very small, and power backs are going to give him a hard time, so I always said he’s a WILL rather than a MIKE(and clearly the team agreed with me). He’s a leader first and foremost, and a good one, and a straight up playmaker in coverage. He’s your answer to the George Kittles and the Travis Kelces of the world. He should be in the running for defensive rookie of the year, and now that you drafted around him(I’ll get to that), he could be a day one pro bowler. He was a top 20 player on my board, and along with Simmons and White last year one of the better ILB prospects of the past five years(yes, above Devin Bush for me). It was an A- before, but given who else we took after him, he’s basically perfect.
Round Two: JK Dobbins, RB, Ohio State
Ever hear of hating the value and liking the player? That’s Dobbins for me. He’s a good player, but I didn’t trust him running behind a line without Marshal Yanda(Phillips cleared my worries. I think Phillips will start at guard relatively soon). Dobbins plays hard, makes good cuts in the open field, and is a much better reciever than given credit for. My pro comparison for him was Mark Ingram which makes him an ideal successor. It does make me wonder what we do with Gus Edwards though, since now we have three power backs and Dobbins is really more of the same as Ingram in my eyes. He’ll be a good player, but it stings for me that Epenesa was taken before him.
Grade: B. He’s a good player, but I don’t like taking most RBs early unless it was Swift or CEH.
Round Three: Justin Madibuike, DT, Texas A&M
You know, it’s about damn time we took a DT that can actually contribute in the pass game. He’s a great run defender, which is a prerequisite for a ravens draft pick(even Carl Davis was a good run defender), but Madboy(which is what I will call him from now on) is a freak athlete, kind of like his once and future teammate Daylon Mack. Brett Kollmann made a point that our best athletes in the front seven are usually our defensive tackles rather than our edge players, and I think this proves it. Madibuike has good tape and can play every position along the dline. Despite having Wolfe, it would not surprise me if he emerges as the starter. He’s the best DT we have taken since Jernigan, who I really liked, and I think he’s better. I had a first round grade on him, but honestly I would’ve preferred Elliot.
Round Three: Devin Duvernay, WR, Texas
Say hello to a player who I had us taking in literally every single mock draft. The ravens fans are so obsessed with WRs that you expect us to take one early every year. You fail to see the bigger picture. You know who we threw to a lot? Seth Roberts. Roberts choked hard in the playoff. What better way to replace that than to a guy who has dropped one pass in three years right? Duvernay, aside from Lamb, might have had the best hands in the draft, which makes him already marketable. Aside from that, he’s a good route runner on the inside and he’s very good against zone coverage as a route runner. He can find soft spots and just pick you apart. Sounds like a typical slot guy right? Well, then you add the fact that he’s legit 4.3 speed, and he plays that fast too. He’s not exceptionally quick, but he’s not lacking in quickness, and he’s only an inside guy, but there’s not too many pure slot WRs in the league that have this speed. His route running is good, but still needs some refinement(I attribute this more to the fact that he played at Texas, any NFL WR coach worth their salt is going to coach this guy up). Put all of that together, he may never be a #1 WR, but he’s very dangerous for any team that gets him if they already have a potent deep threat. Hollywood, his college rival, is probably the best thing(other than Lamar) that is ever going to happen to him. Hollywood by default commands safety attention and is a complete #1 WR. This is going to force the other safety to either commit to Duvernay, or else Lamar will burn you running, or commit to Lamar, where Duvernay or Hollywood is probably going to be wide open 30 yards downfield. This is a steal. I had a second round grade on Duvernay
Round Three: Malik Harrison, ILB, Ohio State
Remember the Patrick Queen writeup I had? I said he was a WILL only, and I think the team agreed with me. Queen was a great pick on it’s own for a multitude of reasons, but I would have been worried when he was facing power backs like Mixon, Bell, Henry. He’s going to have trouble taking on NFL guards. Ultimately, Queen would still be effective because our dline will keep him clean and he’s a stud in coverage, but we needed someone who was a heady LB who could tackle, thump, and play good on hook zones because Fort has never started a game, and Alaka isn’t really that good.
Enter Malik Harrison. A pure MIKE LB who I think is better in coverage than most people give him credit for. There is not an ILB in this draft that plays more Ike a Raven than Harrison does. We needed to take a pure MIKE, and not only is he that, clobbers people in the run game, and will knock you on your ass if you come into his zone. He’s a very smart player, who’s not a great athlete, but has good instincts and is a good football player. He’s willing to do the dirty work, and not only is he just a good player in general, he makes Patrick Queen better. He and Logan Wilson would have been the perfect compliments to him. He was my #4 ILB behind Simmons, Queen, and Logan Wilson. It’s a fantastic value, that basically completes the defense.
Round Three: Tyre phillips, OL, Mississippi State
Phillips has been on my eye for a couple of months. I did have some interior Oline players ranked higher than him, but if you’re going to take a project OG, you might as well go get a freak athlete who can already contribute to the scheme. We needed a guy who can flex out to T should an injury happen, and we also needed someone to replace Yanda. Phillips needs to do some work in pass protection, but I’d argue that he can come in on day one and just straight up destroy people in the run game. I do like that we actually took an interior offensive linemen that is actually powerful. While I do like what I see from Ben Powers, he’s more of a technician than a power guy. I did have John SImpson and Tyler Biasdaz ahead of him, but due to the versatility and the scheme fit, I really cannot hate it too much. I think if Phillips becomes a good pass blocker hes a quality starting guard. But he’s a big project
Round Four: Ben Bredeson, OG, Michigan
You have to field 11 players on offense. Not all 11 are going to be elite, superstars. We lost an elite superstar guard in Yanda this past year. While I do have confidence in Ben Powers moving forward, we do need depth. Enter Bredeson. You aren’t going to have 11 elite players, but you do need 11 GOOD players. Bredeson, is a good football player. He’s nothing special, but he’s a good mover in space who’s technically sound in pass protection, and strong enough in the run game to actually contribute on day one. I liked Bozeman last year, but Bredeson might be too good to not start in year one. I do think he can play either left or right guard, but he provides us with one of those starter types who you could do better than, but you’re not going to complain about him either.
Round Five: Broderick Washington Jr, DL/Edge, Texas Tech
Anyone who said he was a pure nose tackle did not watch the film. He lines up everywhere on the defense and is surprisingly solid as a pass rusher. He’s nothing special as a pass rusher, but he does have some good moves and traits that you have to like here. He’s nowhere close to being big enough to play the nose(so I don’t think this was a response to use not liking Mack), but I think he could become a guy who platoons off of the edge for us, but kicks inside on pass rushing downs to just beat people up. He’s a great run defender and a really good guy in the locker room. I don’t dislike him, and I would’ve probably taken some of the edge guys ahead of him like Huff or Tuszka. But if we can turn this into a platoon edge/DL, then this pick is great. If not, worst case scenario is that he turns into a good depth piece. He’s high-risk, but I don’t think he’s as bad as some say.
Round Six: James Proche, WR, SMU
My only question here is why didn’t more people talk about this guy? He’s not impressive athletically, but that’s not nearly as important to me as his game film. Does he get open? Yes. Does he have good hands? 3 drops with 100+ receptions, along with leading his conference in targets. Does he have football speed? Plenty. He needs to refine his route running, but similarly to Duvernay, any WR coach worth his salt will make it work with this guy. He’s not as big of an instant impact as Duvernay, but this is preparation for Snead leaving next year. Gives us another target to work with who can get open in the intermediate game, and possibly develop into something well beyond his draft position. This could end up being a big steal best case scenario, and worst case he’s a good punt returner.
Round Seven: Geno Stone, S, Iowa
Another one of those guys who’s not a great athlete, but a good football player types. Good on special teams, and a good developmental piece along the way. Solid value, thought he should’ve gone in the fifth
Lost In Translation
I miss that pos
Tell him we miss his punk ass lol.
Seems like one of the key things the ravens wanted in this draft were mentally inclined players, Queen, Harrison and stone are incredibly high iq players, they all have an idea of what’s coming after the snap and play with a ton of anticipation. Madubuike has great vision and ball awareness and finishes very well, he’s got this keen ability to keep track of the ball carrier in a way that most college DTs dont, and it’s one of the traits that often separate successful and unsuccessful DTs at the next level. Dobbins is a refined and well rounded 3 down back who is talented in every aspect of rb play. Duvernay idk about smarts but is a very high character high effort player. Proche is a natural catcher and a very solid route runner. Bredeson supposedly is a super high iq, high character, refined player.
it just really seems like we wanted guys who are high iq or safer/refined prospects.