The Running Game, The Lamar and The Ronnie

[rmcjacket23]

I'm very surprised Snead was the choice there. Byokin probably a little better option there. Not sure what Andrews had going on but obviously that's a spot where you have to look his direction as well. Would have been a prime opportunity for Dez had he been on the 53 actually lol

Precisely what I was thinking as we got down there. I was like "who the hell are we throwing the ball to, and there's no way they don't triple-team Andrews".

 

[Deebo813]

Because that worked so well for Crabtree and Maclin. Absolutely cannot bank on over the hill guys coming here and making a difference. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Young WRs in their prime really don't make it to FA. You have to trade huge amounts of draft capital for them.

It worked for steve and boldin. Crabtree actually played decent his first season with us i believe. Also worked well with john brown until lamar came. I believe snead had a great role with us too right before flacco left

 

[rmcjacket23]

I mentioned this a while back too but hollywood playing here is making his worth far less than what it should be and that goes for any wr we are gonna draft or trade for.. we are better off getting establishing vets whose main purpose is just to win.. young wrs want to get paid and this not the place for them

Disagree mostly. He's not a Julio Jones-type who would play well in any offense, any scheme, based on body type and skill sets. He plays a lot closer to a Tyreke Hill-level player. If you put him in the right system, he can thrive and be dominant. If Tyreke Hill played on the Jets, he would get lost in a lot of games.

I'm not denying that the Ravens aren't a team that makes receivers thrive, because they're not. But there are plenty of teams I see where his value would be substantially LOWER than it is in Baltimore.

 

[cdp]

I think it's time to trade Ingram. I'm not sure if there's team willing to take his contract, but a 7th round pick could be tempting for a contender.

 

[cdp]

It worked for steve and boldin. Crabtree actually played decent his first season with us i believe. Also worked well with john brown until lamar came. I believe snead had a great role with us too right before flacco left

John Brown's first 4 games or so were decent, but he slowed down afterwards even when Flacco was still playing. Crabtree and Snead were ok.

 

[rmcjacket23]

It worked for steve and boldin. Crabtree actually played decent his first season with us i believe. Also worked well with john brown until lamar came. I believe snead had a great role with us too right before flacco left

Right, so its about 50/50.

The point being that it IS possible to add a veteran receiver, or two, and not really have it be significant towards our production. It very much depends on the player.

 

[RavensFan419]

I think it's time to trade Ingram. I'm not sure if there's team willing to take his contract, but a 7th round pick could be tempting for a contender.

I think its time for JK to take over and Gus to continue tp play his role as the bruiser. The only thing that would worry me is if one of them gets hurt I don't feel good about Hill.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I think it's time to trade Ingram. I'm not sure if there's team willing to take his contract, but a 7th round pick could be tempting for a contender.

I wouldn't. When Edwards or Dobbins gets hurt, he becomes significantly more valuable.

He's cheap. I'm not trading cheap depth players when I'm a contender. Especially for a 7th round pick, which is basically a throwaway, considering 7th round picks have really never made an impact on this team.

 

[cdp]

I wouldn't. When Edwards or Dobbins gets hurt, he becomes significantly more valuable.

He's cheap. I'm not trading cheap depth players when I'm a contender. Especially for a 7th round pick, which is basically a throwaway, considering 7th round picks have really never made an impact on this team.

I think its time for JK to take over and Gus to continue tp play his role as the bruiser. The only thing that would worry me is if one of them gets hurt I don't feel good about Hill.

Obviously there is always the risk of an injury. But we invested serious draft capital in a rb. I believe Ingram will be cut next season anyways, so not much to lose here.
Ingram doesn't play on special teams, you take away roughly 15-25 snaps if he's active. no thanks

 

[Simba]

I wouldn't. When Edwards or Dobbins gets hurt, he becomes significantly more valuable.

He's cheap. I'm not trading cheap depth players when I'm a contender. Especially for a 7th round pick, which is basically a throwaway, considering 7th round picks have really never made an impact on this team.

Just to play devil's advocate... if you had a trade lined up elsewhere (say, OL or WR) and needed the cap room, and someone else was offering to take Ingram's salary off your hands, would you do it? I'd have to think long and hard about it at least. I love Ingram and think he's drawn the short straw at times this year, but I'd be hard pressed to say no. He's clearly on the chopping block heading into 2021.

 

[RavensMania]

unfortunately everyone's seen it and there's a million screenshots lol

It is kind of funny how Lamar's MVP season has spoiled us. He hasn't been all that good so far this year but if we had Flacco out here keeping us in the game despite turnovers, we'd all be saying how well he did. Just feels like it's a different standard now. Not saying that's a bad thing because we know Lamar can be better, but we also have to realize how much worse it could be and has been.

It's never as bad as it seems and it's never as good as it seems. That's the mantra I go by, I have to to stay sane. Lamar has lost 5 games he has started in the last 29 or 30 games he has played in the regular season. Yes, he's regressed this season, but I don't believe it's all on him. The offensive line isn't playing well and Roman isn't calling a good game at all.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Obviously there is always the risk of an injury. But we invested serious draft capital in a rb. I believe Ingram will be cut next season anyways, so not much to lose here.
Ingram doesn't play on special teams, you take away roughly 15-25 snaps if he's active. no thanks

OK, but my point is... if he's cheap depth, why are you trading him? How does that make the Ravens a better team now or in the future?

You can just put him on the roster and not give him those snaps. I'm perfectly fine with him seeing 5-6 carries a game. Just because he's on the roster doesn't mean he's guaranteed a boatload of playing time. He's just insurance.

I'm not interested at all in seeing Justice Hill get 8-10 carries a game, which is what will happen if you have Dobbins/Edwards splitting 25-30 carries a week. Inevitably one will come down with a short or long term injury, just like Ingram did, and now you've traded away a player who can do more than Hill can.

There's always risk of injury... but some positions, like RB, have a higher risk of injury than others. I never understand the point of a contending team trading away depth for crappy draft picks.

 

[rmcjacket23]

Just to play devil's advocate... if you had a trade lined up elsewhere (say, OL or WR) and needed the cap room, and someone else was offering to take Ingram's salary off your hands, would you do it? I'd have to think long and hard about it at least. I love Ingram and think he's drawn the short straw at times this year, but I'd be hard pressed to say no. He's clearly on the chopping block heading into 2021.

Sure. But then its not really a trade for a 7th round pick. Its basically (though not directly) a trade for an Olineman or WR who can make this team better.

I'm just not shipping Ingram away because I want him to play less. I can just play him less without trading him away.

While I was wrong about the Ravens making a trade, I still think its incredibly unlikely we make a trade for any significant Olineman. Like we've dealt late round picks for reserve lineman before, and maybe that's possible, but pretty much no team wants to trade quality Olineman. Rebuilding teams want them. Contending teams want them.

 

[Simba]

Sure. But then its not really a trade for a 7th round pick. Its basically (though not directly) a trade for an Olineman or WR who can make this team better.

I'm just not shipping Ingram away because I want him to play less. I can just play him less without trading him away.

While I was wrong about the Ravens making a trade, I still think its incredibly unlikely we make a trade for any significant Olineman. Like we've dealt late round picks for reserve lineman before, and maybe that's possible, but pretty much no team wants to trade quality Olineman. Rebuilding teams want them. Contending teams want them.

For sure, and that's definitely a "what if but not gonna happen" question. I'm not giving Ingram away because I do think he can help this team, but I'm also not so attached that I wouldn't move him IF it was a precursor to something that helps this team at a position of weakness.

 

[rmcjacket23]

It's never as bad as it seems and it's never as good as it seems. That's the mantra I go by, I have to to stay sane. Lamar has lost 5 games he has started in the last 29 or 30 games he has played in the regular season. Yes, he's regressed this season, but I don't believe it's all on him. The offensive line isn't playing well and Roman isn't calling a good game at all.

I think the frustration, from yesterday, is that Lamar's three critical mistakes were pretty much 100% on him. I'm not blaming play calling for two horrible INTs and a pocket fumble. Technically he put the ball on the ground at least 3 times yesterday... its just the other two were either recovered or didn't matter.

Play calling hasn't been great, the running game hasn't been great, the Oline wasn't great. But yesterday, I thought the latter two were easily good enough to win that game. What wasn't good enough to win the game was the QB.

That's one game. They didn't lose to the Chiefs because Lamar was terrible, and we didn't lose to the Titans because Lamar was terrible. I think we pretty much entirely lose yesterday because Lamar was terrible.

Again, that's just one game. Not every win or loss has to be all encompassing of all other games.

 

[ravenslord]

I think the frustration, from yesterday, is that Lamar's three critical mistakes were pretty much 100% on him. I'm not blaming play calling for two horrible INTs and a pocket fumble. Technically he put the ball on the ground at least 3 times yesterday... its just the other two were either recovered or didn't matter.

Play calling hasn't been great, the running game hasn't been great, the Oline wasn't great. But yesterday, I thought the latter two were easily good enough to win that game. What wasn't good enough to win the game was the QB.

That's one game. They didn't lose to the Chiefs because Lamar was terrible, and we didn't lose to the Titans because Lamar was terrible. I think we pretty much entirely lose yesterday because Lamar was terrible.

Again, that's just one game. Not every win or loss has to be all encompassing of all other games.

The picks Lamar threw were similar to Joe’s picks when we played Cincy . I really hope this is not the beginning of a trend for Lamar when playing the hated Steelers .

 

[Deebo813]

Disagree mostly. He's not a Julio Jones-type who would play well in any offense, any scheme, based on body type and skill sets. He plays a lot closer to a Tyreke Hill-level player. If you put him in the right system, he can thrive and be dominant. If Tyreke Hill played on the Jets, he would get lost in a lot of games.

I'm not denying that the Ravens aren't a team that makes receivers thrive, because they're not. But there are plenty of teams I see where his value would be substantially LOWER than it is in Baltimore.

It dnt matter the wr is what im saying. We arent a good fit for them especially wrs still on a rookie deal or wanting to get that next big contract. Tbh, what other team would use him less than us? There is none. Can maybe say
Cowboys now that their qbs are injured. Maybe washington? Nope cause mclaurin sees the ball alot. It dont matter who he plays similar too, im sure every team would use him better than we have.

 

[RavensMania]

I think the frustration, from yesterday, is that Lamar's three critical mistakes were pretty much 100% on him. I'm not blaming play calling for two horrible INTs and a pocket fumble. Technically he put the ball on the ground at least 3 times yesterday... its just the other two were either recovered or didn't matter.

Play calling hasn't been great, the running game hasn't been great, the Oline wasn't great. But yesterday, I thought the latter two were easily good enough to win that game. What wasn't good enough to win the game was the QB.

That's one game. They didn't lose to the Chiefs because Lamar was terrible, and we didn't lose to the Titans because Lamar was terrible. I think we pretty much entirely lose yesterday because Lamar was terrible.

Again, that's just one game. Not every win or loss has to be all encompassing of all other games.

Absolutely agree.

 

[JAAM]

Brandon Marshall said this morning that teams haven’t figured Lamar out — they’ve figured Roman out, and I like this comment from a Ravens fan on Reddit:


“I’m 1000% on board with moving on from Roman after this season and turning this into a more traditional offense that occasionally calls old Roman running plays but mostly uses Lamar’s legs to extend plays and scramble.

If Lamar can’t succeed and grow his passing game under the tutelage of a different offensive coordinator who draws up a good passing scheme next year, then perhaps we start asking ourselves hard questions.”

 

[rmcjacket23]

It dnt matter the wr is what im saying. We arent a good fit for them especially wrs still on a rookie deal or wanting to get that next big contract. Tbh, what other team would use him less than us? There is none. Can maybe say
Cowboys now that their qbs are injured. Maybe washington? Nope cause mclaurin sees the ball alot. It dont matter who he plays similar too, im sure every team would use him better than we have.

Well off the top of my head:
Jets
Browns (they wouldn't use him at all to be honest)
Raiders
Redskins
Giants
Vikings
Bears

I think he would be substantially worse off in all of those offenses. A combination of offensive play calling that doesn't value his type of skills, really poor QB play (which matters more than what the OC calls) and just overall game script and skill sets of the QB itself.

Any team that's going to have a 2:1 run/pass ratio is never going to be a good fit for a WR.

Like I said once already... I don't recall care if he's mad or not. He's just going to have to be mad then. The offense doesn't revolve around him, nor should it. Some games he'll be a big part of it, others he won't. That's called playing in the NFL. I'd like to see him more involved, but I'm also not the QB, the OC, or the opposing defense giving opposition to him getting involved.

I've also never been a "manufacture" touches guy. Like I want him to make plays, but I'm not just giving the ball to him just to say I did. Just because he has the ball in his hands doesn't mean he's breaking an 80 TD run.