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Bernard Pollard Speaks Out on Harbaugh Again

Oldfaithful

Hall of Famer
whats lost on ozze and harball is that a player's value is his value to the team he played for. for a host of reasons a player cannot be measured by the changing chemistry with another team. so many of our fans say "see...see" "he didn't do as well....Ozze was right!!" Of course those same fans gloss over ozze's replacements.

its tough to pick apart an icon, but hes doing it to himself. long past time.

as far as PFF no comment

... Poes Crows and/or DannyD/ RayRayRaven..

What. Do you honestly think we wouldn't have caught on? We know you think we're all idiots, so sorry to spoil your fun.

Even without the benefit of hindsight, I'm pretty sure no one else was kicking ourselves within the organization for letting Cary "20 yards off his man" Williams. He had some really solid games during the SB year, but some ABYSMAL games as well.

And sure. Criticize PFF. But Cary Williams was so good that he was let go two years into his deal. Ellerbe? Same thing(again, got an upgrade in Daryl Smith). Kruger? We got a definitive upgrade in Dumervil. Was an all pro for us in 2014. But right, you called Dumervil a liability back in 2015. Just like when you said that we would be able to adequately judge Ronnie Stanley's career path four games into his career.

You are more guilty than meandering than anyone else on this forum.
 

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
When it's carried by the offense and the defense (which was 16th btw) got rightfully blown up. Yes it would have been better to keep Boldin but beyond that none of the losses in FA were a problem.

The issue is that we never adjusted to post Lewis/Reed era.

Even in their late years, when their play quality dropped off, they were still making everybody around them better by reading offenses and lining up others to what's coming on near every snap. How else Chykie Brown and Cary Williams make plays and win SB?

Seems to me we kept playing average, at best, guys on defense from 2013. Ngata's loss and Sizzle's achilles rid us off two remaining leaders, as well. We never really properly invested in defense overhaul until the last offseason.

At the same time, we were content and fooled by Flacco's amazing SB run, so we neglected major upgrades on offense, too. Ray Rice saga, Pitta's hip, Boldin's departure did not help. To aid all this, we drafted poorly and few FA signings were just not enough. With the exception of Kubiak's year, we were never even average on offense. It's been terrible and mostly incompetent and it still is to this day.

So basically, elite parts of our team were gone, we couldn't successfully start over and mostly mediocre players finally exposed our mediocre and antiquated coaching.

Everybody, top to bottom has their hands in this.
 

Ravensnation5220

Ravens Ring of Honor
The issue is that we never adjusted to post Lewis/Reed era.

Even in their late years, when their play quality dropped off, they were still making everybody around them better by reading offenses and lining up others to what's coming on near every snap. How else Chykie Brown and Cary Williams make plays and win SB?

Seems to me we kept playing average, at best, guys on defense from 2013. Ngata's loss and Sizzle's achilles rid us off two remaining leaders, as well. We never really properly invested in defense overhaul until the last offseason.

At the same time, we were content and fooled by Flacco's amazing SB run, so we neglected major upgrades on offense, too. Ray Rice saga, Pitta's hip, Boldin's departure did not help. To aid all this, we drafted poorly and few FA signings were just not enough. With the exception of Kubiak's year, we were never even average on offense. It's been terrible and mostly incompetent and it still is to this day.

So basically, elite parts of our team were gone, we couldn't successfully start over and mostly mediocre players finally exposed our mediocre and antiquated coaching.

Everybody, top to bottom has their hands in this.
Couldnt have said it any better. I think thats what Pollard means when he says Harbaugh "cant coach". I feel like we expect Harbaugh get more out of his players than they show. Make an average team become good because of effort. We never lack effort with Harbaugh. Just talent and execution. Part of that is Ozzie and part is also Flacco and his deal.
 

Purple&Black#20

Practice Squad
Pollard is right! He can't coach and flacco can't play. His first 5 years as the ravens coach 54-26. Last 5 years 35-38. Our team carried them. I've always said that and believed Harbaugh is the reason Ed was never resigned, Pollard released and Boldin traded. Those 3 always spoke the truth! If Ray wasn't retiring it's no way those 3 walk out the door. All moves was discussed with Ray and harb knew that. So after giving those two dummies (harb, Flacco) the keys this is what you get. Average team at best. At least we can say Flacco help bring home a championship but Harbaugh hasn't done anything. Boldin/Jones was your real MVP'S of that playoff run.
 

RayRayRaven

Veteran
Couldnt have said it any better. I think thats what Pollard means when he says Harbaugh "cant coach". I feel like we expect Harbaugh get more out of his players than they show. Make an average team become good because of effort. We never lack effort with Harbaugh. Just talent and execution. Part of that is Ozzie and part is also Flacco and his deal.

Im glad Harbaugh is finally getting called out on his bullshit and poor coaching

Harball can coach.
He's a good coach with great players.
He's a poor coach with good players
He's a rat coach with poor players. stay tuned we heading for the rat years.
 

RayRayRaven

Veteran
you are more guilty of meandering than literally anyone else here on these boards
I get what you are saying. I tend to agree that pollard is onto something but can't quite reel it in. He has a point here. Harbaugh can't coach offense and defense. He was a special teams coach for centuries it seemed and nobody ever promoted him to anything more significant on offense and defense. Then ravens come along and make him a head coach. Ozzie and Biscotti were likely enamored with his demand for a players top effort. And buying into team goals, culture, and system. As well as demand every player fall in. Cuz Harbs was so opposite of what ravens fired in Billick.

Pollard is correct about Harbaugh can't coach. Harbaugh seems to contribute jack to offense and defense. He gets credit for when the team wins. Yet never shares blame when the offense and defense performs subpar. It's always the coordinator. Harbs never shares blame for failure. And is never criticized for being useless in contributing to fixing the offense and defense. Harbs is a manager that hires the coaches and demands results from coaches and effort from players. But judging from the blame and responsibility he takes for subpar performance. He is absolutely useless scheming for offense and defense. As well as coaching up players. The ravens are always full cupboard when it comes to positional coaches and coordinators.

Now we come to players and Harbaughs insight and coaching. There is no denying Harbaugh wants players with a particular mindset. He likes players that fall in line. It is good he likes work ethic and players that set a good example with intangibles. But he is watering the talent by excluding players with to strong a personality and outspoken and somewhat rebellious in some ways. And nobody can deny Harbaugh is like that. He said blatantly " a players mental state and mindset is 3 times as important as his takent" There you have it Harbaugh would prefer a try hard average player than an elite talent that is a little rebellious of Maybe some team guidelines and style. Example. Harbaugh gave out stickers. If a player insulted him as it being a stupid and cheesy childish idea. That player would probably be in Harbaughs doghouse. Maybe some of the players let go were over compensated. It's likely better we didn't resign some of them. But you can't argue those players were better together. The fear Pollard struck in opponents doesn't show up on stat sheets. But that hit sure demoralized the patriots. And hitting is contagious!! Is there any argument Ellerbe woulda played better with the ravens if retained?? I get it. Salary cap played its role. But Harbaugh sure probably wanted some outspoken strong personality players to leave.

Then there is drafting and free agency. How much of the terrible drafting of late is Harbaughs ideas?? We know he values mindset over skill and then having to coach concepts into a player. Harbaughs own words a players mental state is 3 times as important as his skills. How much of that statement was inspired by Harbaughs experience with players that don't have a personality that Harbaugh approves of?? How many of the recent busts did Harbaugh have some insight on?? Correa and Kufusi are 2 recent busts that have Harbaughs preferred character and mindset. We all know how his brother bragged about Wormleys character. I said this dude was a loser from the jump. What is he doing on the team?? That's right he has Harbaughs preferred mindset and character!! Saying Harbaugh broke the team up is kinda out of text a little. But Pollard is onto something about Harbaugh having issues that will make sustained winning kinda elusive as a coach. Like his extreme biasedness toward personalities. And his total ineptness contributing to coaching offense and defense!! Sorry about some of the wording here dudes. It's late I have work in 6 hours and I already didn't sleep last night. I think Pollard is onto something but missing the point. I dunno really. it's all only ideas and opinion here.

you make a slew of spot on points. if we could trade harball for pollard "2012", what a deal that would be. pollard fit us like a glove, but then he was part of a special defensive crew. they had a fellowship you don't mess with, but oz and harball messed with it. what average fans don't weigh nor even understand is the brotherhood. they don't have a clue cuz they never played the game. when brotherhood chemistry like that exists a player is never the same somewhere else. some understand, but if you sincerely believe star wars was more than an D grade trash series you won't ever get there.
 

jboy19

Pro Bowler
The way this thread is going, people are going to start saying the Ravens didn't win a Super Bowl in 2012 and that only real fans know that they really lost in the wild card round.
 

allblackraven

Hall of Famer
The way this thread is going, people are going to start saying the Ravens didn't win a Super Bowl in 2012 and that only real fans know that they really lost in the wild card round.
How did you come to this conclusion? If anything, people who you don't agree with are saying that the SB winning team would have done better from '13 on had it not been disassembled.
 

Militant X 1

Ravens Ring of Honor
I'm not surprised by any of the things Pollard is saying about Harbaugh per his tweets....

Bernard Pollard Jr
✔@Crushboy31


I'm sorry but this team will never be the same. They broke up something special way too early. Now he's got to COACH & that's not possible.

Bernard Pollard Jr

✔@Crushboy31

I stand by what I said. He single handling destroyed that team all because EGO. Not a good coach.


Billings31 @Billings312
Replying to @Crushboy31 @ben_coops


What made him not a good coach?


Bernard Pollard Jr
✔@Crushboy31


Never been one.


I've always had the feeling that Harbaugh merely "inherited" a solid team with defensive "legends" as leaders (i.e. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed). Not only were they leaders but they were "on the field coaches" as well. I believed that they literally carried Harbaugh and took a lot of pressure off of his shoulders as a coach and all he had to do was sit back and enjoy the ride all the way to the Super Bowl. Then you bring in more seasoned vets like Boldin and Pollard and throw them into the mix. Now, you got a bunch of alpha males in the building! Weak leaders can't handle Alpha males and Alpha males have a problem following weak leaders.


People can say all the negative things that they want to and hate on Pollard but here is the reality; He was actually on the team, in the lockeroom, in the meetings and at the practices. Pollard was behind the scenes NONE OF US WERE. This line from the article sums it up for me.....
"Pollard’s tweet feels the most real. He was, after all, a Baltimore Raven, with the most insider knowledge possible".
 

Truth

Staff Member
Administrator
whats lost on ozze and harball is that a player's value is his value to the team he played for. for a host of reasons a player cannot be measured by the changing chemistry with another team. so many of our fans say "see...see" "he didn't do as well....Ozze was right!!" Of course those same fans gloss over ozze's replacements.

its tough to pick apart an icon, but hes doing it to himself. long past time.

as far as PFF no comment
The former is a fair point, and you're right in that a player struggling or excelling elsewhere doesn't necessitate the exact same result had they stayed. Unfortunately, there's no alternative other than leaning on a hypothetical, so it's an imperfect indication albeit a usable one. The issue is that Williams, while having scattered plays and sometimes full games of positive flashes, was often burned when it came to his general performance. In 2011, he allowed the 7th most yards with 822. Throughout the whole 2012 campaign, he surrendered 1,118 yards with 7 TDs. So his future struggles were mainly par for the course. We were set to have Lardarius Webb return from missing 14 games, with Corey Graham still in the mix. Defensively, while we allowed more passing TDs in 2013, we gave up virtually the same QB rating from the year before given that our burn percentage of 56.9% was the 3rd best in the league. We also finished 12th in passing yards allowed compared to 16th the year before. Overall, we gave up less yards per game, finishing 12th to 17th, an even lower 3rd down percentage of 34%, 3rd best in the league. We had the same yards per play at 5.2 and virtually the same PPG at 22 to 21.5. By all accounts, we fielded either an equal defense or an even better one than the year before. And there lies the problem.

In discussing breaking up the unit, the point inherently focuses on the departures. Does the added presence of Kruger, Ellerbe, Pollard, Williams and Reed force us back into the SuperBowl? It's arguably as unlikely as something can be. Especially since we'd be subtracting Dumervil and Smith. Those 5 players combined to earn over $35 million in total salaries in their first season elsewhere, so at best, we were going to lose most of them purely for financial reasons. That's without Boldin's $6 million. Additionally, all five held starting roles on a defense that didn't outperform its future counterpart, and while we miserably failed to replace Reed, the rest of the lost production was amended. Meanwhile, the offense lost a single starter to the FA, trades or releases. It was a major and unnecessary loss in Boldin, but otherwise, it retained most of its players. Injuries and poor play derailed the group, torpedoing us into becoming one of the season's most miserable offenses both through the air and on the ground. From a losses standpoint, there's almost no point to be made outside of Boldin. Even then, it's tough to presume that he would've rescued from its the offense by his lonesome. Replacements wise, there's a much better argument to me made, and I eluded to this in my first post. No question there. But as it stands, there's little empirical evidence to support the hypothesis that we would've repeated had we held on to our retainable losses that fell outside of the three retirements of Lewis, Birk and Kemoeatu. It's a tough sell, which is why the point about the break up can fall on deaf ears.
 

RayRayRaven

Veteran
I'm not surprised by any of the things Pollard is saying about Harbaugh per his tweets....

Bernard Pollard Jr
✔@Crushboy31


I'm sorry but this team will never be the same. They broke up something special way too early. Now he's got to COACH & that's not possible.

Bernard Pollard Jr

✔@Crushboy31

I stand by what I said. He single handling destroyed that team all because EGO. Not a good coach.


Billings31 @Billings312
Replying to @Crushboy31 @ben_coops


What made him not a good coach?


Bernard Pollard Jr
✔@Crushboy31


Never been one.


I've always had the feeling that Harbaugh merely "inherited" a solid team with defensive "legends" as leaders (i.e. Ray Lewis and Ed Reed). Not only were they leaders but they were "on the field coaches" as well. I believed that they literally carried Harbaugh and took a lot of pressure off of his shoulders as a coach and all he had to do was sit back and enjoy the ride all the way to the Super Bowl. Then you bring in more seasoned vets like Boldin and Pollard and throw them into the mix. Now, you got a bunch of alpha males in the building! Weak leaders can't handle Alpha males and Alpha males have a problem following weak leaders.


People can say all the negative things that they want to and hate on Pollard but here is the reality; He was actually on the team, in the lockeroom, in the meetings and at the practices. Pollard was behind the scenes NONE OF US WERE. This line from the article sums it up for me.....
"Pollard’s tweet feels the most real. He was, after all, a Baltimore Raven, with the most insider knowledge possible".

Very well stated. regarding all pros you forget to mention Ngata and Suggs, though Ngata was more tight lipped. proud veterans all. harball is a control freak and several of the mutineers were cast off that spring. As the masons greet, "do you know".
 

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
The issue is that we never adjusted to post Lewis/Reed era.

Even in their late years, when their play quality dropped off, they were still making everybody around them better by reading offenses and lining up others to what's coming on near every snap. How else Chykie Brown and Cary Williams make plays and win SB?

Seems to me we kept playing average, at best, guys on defense from 2013. Ngata's loss and Sizzle's achilles rid us off two remaining leaders, as well. We never really properly invested in defense overhaul until the last offseason.

At the same time, we were content and fooled by Flacco's amazing SB run, so we neglected major upgrades on offense, too. Ray Rice saga, Pitta's hip, Boldin's departure did not help. To aid all this, we drafted poorly and few FA signings were just not enough. With the exception of Kubiak's year, we were never even average on offense. It's been terrible and mostly incompetent and it still is to this day.

So basically, elite parts of our team were gone, we couldn't successfully start over and mostly mediocre players finally exposed our mediocre and antiquated coaching.

Everybody, top to bottom has their hands in this.

That would be true if it weren't for the fact that the Ravens defense in 2013 ranked HIGHER in pretty much every category than in 2012. So unless we are implying there ability to improve others was so great that there "aura" remained for a year, there ability to affect others on the field is being drastically overstated.
 
That would be true if it weren't for the fact that the Ravens defense in 2013 ranked HIGHER in pretty much every category than in 2012. So unless we are implying there ability to improve others was so great that there "aura" remained for a year, there ability to affect others on the field is being drastically overstated.

Our defense wasnt spectacular in 2012 or 2013, we lost some leadership for sure but gained younger players who could cover better than Ray and tackle better than Reed (not talking about Elam).

Still, we lost a lot of our edge and attitude, I dont see anyone since Pollard being able to shut down a rampaging Steven Ridley like he did in that AFC title game. No Pollard, no Super Bowl.
 

Adreme

Ravens Ring of Honor
Our defense wasnt spectacular in 2012 or 2013, we lost some leadership for sure but gained younger players who could cover better than Ray and tackle better than Reed (not talking about Elam).

Still, we lost a lot of our edge and attitude, I dont see anyone since Pollard being able to shut down a rampaging Steven Ridley like he did in that AFC title game. No Pollard, no Super Bowl.

Reality says we were doing a better job shutting people down after they left though. I'm not cherrypicking numvers, the rankings went up for every category (a couple were small improvements but still improvement).

In all honesty the Ravens beat the Pats in 2012 for the exact same reason the Ravens lost to them in 2014 and that is that it's hard to win when your shutdown corner and best offensive playmaker are hurt.
 

Truth

Staff Member
Administrator
Our defense wasnt spectacular in 2012 or 2013, we lost some leadership for sure but gained younger players who could cover better than Ray and tackle better than Reed (not talking about Elam).

Still, we lost a lot of our edge and attitude, I dont see anyone since Pollard being able to shut down a rampaging Steven Ridley like he did in that AFC title game. No Pollard, no Super Bowl.
The term rampaging may overstate Ridley's performances to an extent. After a strong start, he amassed 547 yards on 140 carries in the last 8 games. An impressive TD total with 7, but the 3.9 YPC was pedestrian. He netted 82 yards on 15 carries against Houston, and then we held him to 70 on 18 attempts, which was just above the aforementioned average. The hit by Pollard and the subsequent lost fumble were huge. We were up by 8, they turned it over in their own territory and we followed up with a TD. I'd personally state that he took him out instead of shutting him down, however, that's semantics on my end. We were in the led and we did force them into turnovers on the next three drives, so it's difficult to state that we outright fail to reach the SuperBowl without that play. But that doesn't take away from the fact that Pollard was a solid starter who helped set the aggressive tone, albeit as the most penalized safety in the league. It's fair to argue whether we reach the SuperBowl without him, but that's a sentiment that would hold true for multiple players.

That being said, if we're pointing out specific performances, we were ran all over in the SuperBowl. With as much as the focus fell on Lewis being whipped in the passing game, Pollard himself was nothing short of a liability in coverage, with multiple mind-boggling bites in zone coverage. Not to mention the missed tackle on the Crabtree TD. In many ways, the final victory alone came in spite of Pollard. Would Pollard have been a solid starter for us the following year? I don't see why not, especially since he played to the same standard in Tennessee. However, would he have been a better presence than what Ihedigbo was the following season? That's difficult to argue. I agree that we lost defensive leadership in 2013, mostly in the losses of Reed and Lewis. But as far as losing the edge because of Pollard, that's highly debatable. Ihedigbo was a machine in around the LOS in 2013. He was one of our best tone setters and he continuously flew around the ball, noted by the fact that he had the highest run stop percentage in the league. Even Webb referred to him as the "captain back there." I thought that at worst, he replaced the value of Pollard in intensity, performance, and locker room leadership in equal measure. That's just my opinion though. In either case, in terms of assigning blame for the inability to neither repeat nor reach the postseason, I am somewhat puzzled by the focus on the following year's defense that categorical improved over the offense that was unquestionably abysmal.
 
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