‘Wink’ is the New Defensive Coordinator

[Tru11]

yeah let's ignore that Mosley was assigned to the zone under the completion and weddle over the top, and that ball is almost certainly picked or swatted by Mosley if he isn't left trying to cover a deep zone from the a-gap. Canady blew it, but Mosley and weddle are perfectly positioned to defend it IF they aren't assigned to show blitz. So it was schemed right except for the fact that pees ALWAYS has to get extra cute and emphasize confusion and deception over talent and execution. He has always been this way and most of us see it, you still don't and expect players to execute when put in very difficult positions. He has failed to put our guys in the best position possible in key moments, he's actually done the exact opposite.

It's not all his fault, don't get me wrong, the talent is lacking in a good number of ways, but pees has refused to use guys for what they do best for the sake of deception, how can anyone execute when pees plays them out of their skillset?

who says dalton would have made that pass or even stick to that play call IF mosley and weddle did not show blitz?

you do know a QB can make adjustments based on what they see pre-snap, right?
they can change routes or the entire play based on what they see.

the play as it was drawn up made dalton make that pass and if canady did his job then we would have been in the play offs.

if a corner cant cover deep then he might have to look for a different position cause plenty of plays ask corners to drop deep and cover over the top.

cover 3 for instance is a play where both outside corners are responsible for the deep part on their side.
its probably 1 if not the most used play in the NFL.

there was nothing difficult about that play at all.
It was actually very vanilla and basic.

Quite frankly what most see is the name Pees and automaticially assume everything his fault and he is holding all the players back from being all pros.

I mean you clearly admit Canady blew it yet still want to blame Pees.
Makes no sense whatsoever....

Ever considerd that the reason he has to resort in trying the be cute and use deception is because the players lack talent and excecution?

 

[Tru11]

Whiffed sacks, wonder if that's such an issue if ZDS wasn't consistently used as a DPR while Tim Williams plays the run on first and second down and rides the pine on his ideal snaps.

Again, misuse of talent cuz "muh deception, muh disguise"

You act like tim williams is the next mack or von miller.....

If he really was that talented he would have beaten out ZDS and Judon for pass rush snaps.

Perhaps the players are not that talented then some of you want to believe.
Or they simply for whatever reason dont play up to the talent they have and force the coaches to play them period......

 

[rossihunter2]

You act like tim williams is the next mack or von miller.....

If he really was that talented he would have beaten out ZDS and Judon for pass rush snaps.

Perhaps the players are not that talented then some of you want to believe.
Or they simply for whatever reason dont play up to the talent they have and force the coaches to play them period......

And shouldn’t Marlon have beaten out carr earlier in the year too? Yet he still had to wait til jimmy smith went down to get snaps...

This coaching staff doesn’t like just throwing rookies in unless they have no alternative

And I do think Timmy is talented - I had him as a top 20 overall player last year based on the tape - I’m not saying he’s played to that level but he also got very few snaps

You act like our coaches are infallible and always get the snaps right for players but I think you could argue recently that they’ve been way too slow to give young guys a chance (see willie Henry, Timmy, tyus, wormley, canady, Marlon, Jensen etc.)

 

[SepticeyePoe]

And shouldn’t Marlon have beaten out carr earlier in the year too? Yet he still had to wait til jimmy smith went down to get snaps...

This coaching staff doesn’t like just throwing rookies in unless they have no alternative

And I do think Timmy is talented - I had him as a top 20 overall player last year based on the tape - I’m not saying he’s played to that level but he also got very few snaps

You act like our coaches are infallible and always get the snaps right for players but I think you could argue recently that they’ve been way too slow to give young guys a chance (see willie Henry, Timmy, tyus, wormley, canady, Marlon, Jensen etc.)

That's something that has bothered me. I was really excited to see Bowser and Williams play when we drafted them, and then they barely got to play. That's kind of a selfish reason, but I always like seeing what kind of guys we got in the draft.

 

[Tru11]

And shouldn’t Marlon have beaten out carr earlier in the year too? Yet he still had to wait til jimmy smith went down to get snaps...

This coaching staff doesn’t like just throwing rookies in unless they have no alternative

And I do think Timmy is talented - I had him as a top 20 overall player last year based on the tape - I’m not saying he’s played to that level but he also got very few snaps

You act like our coaches are infallible and always get the snaps right for players but I think you could argue recently that they’ve been way too slow to give young guys a chance (see willie Henry, Timmy, tyus, wormley, canady, Marlon, Jensen etc.)

the fuck are you talking about?

Marlon saw plenty of snaps in sub packages and did not need jimmy to be injured.
By week 3 he was playing 1/3 of the snaps on defense.

Dude earned the 3rd cornerback spot to start the season and as the season went on he looked poised to become the starter besides jimmy.
If he sucked in TC and pre season he would have not earned that spot.

These players are competiting which each other and players have to proof that they are better.

What exactly has timmy shown that screems that he should have gotten snaps over judon, bowser or ZDS?

Dude has to earn those snaps and when he gets them he has to make the best of them so coaches cant disregard him.

Bowser is actually the perfect example.
Week 1 25% of the snaps on defense
Week 2 49% of the snaps on defense
Struggled in week 3 early on and lost those snaps to others for the rest of the season.

Both rookies started the season with plenty of snaps , so you can put that myth of not giving young players a chance to rest already.

Bowser and Marlon earned those snaps.
Marlon made the most of them and only gotten better during the season.
Bowser started hot then struggled mightly and never got his snaps back.
Timmy has done shit to proof he was better then suggs , ZDS,Judon or Bowser to take snaps from them.

 

[rossihunter2]

Bowser is actually the perfect example.
Week 1 25% of the snaps on defense
Week 2 49% of the snaps on defense
Struggled in week 3 early on and lost those snaps to others for the rest of the season

This is a great demonstration of how differently we treat rookies and pseudo-rookies to other guys

Bowser had 3 bad plays in one game and saw his snaps reduce for the rest of the year wholesale

Vets show consistently bad snaps but don’t get benched the same way

The coaching staff philosophically treat young players differently - they are almost waiting for the rookies to fail and yet somehow also root for the older guys to succeed even when they aren’t playing well

And with regards to Marlon - yes he played number 3 cb snaps and rotated in but he clearly should have been starting ahead of Brandon Carr from like week 3 onwards

 

[Adreme]

But he showed more than you saw apparently, because in his very rare opportunities he flashed, ZDS on the other hand couldn't make a sack if he had a free run because he couldn't stay on his feet literally ever.

In his opportunities he almost flashed. He almost got sacks, he almost was impressive, but he failed. Even then because of how he was used defenses could not be sure what he was going to do. Nothing I saw made me think if he were telegraphed as rushing the passer he could do it. Maybe this year with some more experience but last year was a bust. Not that he will be a bust obviously that is stupid to say after 1 year but he was not ready to be our Dumervile and just come in on 3rd down and rush the passer.

 

[DeVito52]

In his opportunities he almost flashed. He almost got sacks, he almost was impressive, but he failed. Even then because of how he was used defenses could not be sure what he was going to do. Nothing I saw made me think if he were telegraphed as rushing the passer he could do it. Maybe this year with some more experience but last year was a bust. Not that he will be a bust obviously that is stupid to say after 1 year but he was not ready to be our Dumervile and just come in on 3rd down and rush the passer.

Wait, so you’re only a good rusher if you get sacks? Nothing else counts? Damn good to know. Do yourself a favor and go rewatch some of Twills snaps.

 

[Adreme]

Wait, so you’re only a good rusher if you get sacks? Nothing else counts? Damn good to know. Do yourself a favor and go rewatch some of Twills snaps.

He had one snap where he actually caused something to happen. If you rush the passer and the QB can go through all his reads, pick his target and throw without your rush causing any change in that procedure you did not matter that play.

I get that its easier to blame coaches and schemes then the player because no one wants to simply say they player did not perform. He had the same effect on plays that ZDS did when he would rush the passer force the QB to move then fall over and ZDS could actually do something other than rush the passer and I do not want to be accused of calling ZDS good.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

He had one snap where he actually caused something to happen. If you rush the passer and the QB can go through all his reads, pick his target and throw without your rush causing any change in that procedure you did not matter that play.

I get that its easier to blame coaches and schemes then the player because no one wants to simply say they player did not perform. He had the same effect on plays that ZDS did when he would rush the passer force the QB to move then fall over and ZDS could actually do something other than rush the passer and I do not want to be accused of calling ZDS good.

sacks dont happen in a vacuum, you cant say "X didnt get a sack so X failed", its not that simple. in VERY few snaps, he showed on more than one occasion the ability to line up 1v1 against a respectable NFL tackle and beat the living daylights out of them on a given snap occasionally, he did it to the best LT in the NFL and there is no way around that, a quick release doesnt mean he failed, more likely it means the DB failed, so theres that.

and you talk like ZDS is some excellent run stuffer, he isnt, hes average at best, certainly not good enough to hold down other edge rushers in favor of him so you dont "telegraph" the rush. on 3rd and long what the fuck else is an edge rusher/DT gonna do? if you have 4 down linemen on a 3rd and long play, you send ZDS out there instead of tim williams to what... make the offense think were keying in on the run? well we would be idiots to operate like that, all 4 of those down linemen are gonna be rushing the passer, the presence of zadarius smith doesnt confuse anyone, hell we could have brandon williams, michael pierce, brandon mckinnie and terrence cody as the 4 down linemen on 3rd and long and they still know were gonna come after the qb. theres no deception to be made on these obvious passing downs, which is why it is of no benefit to field a proven failure over tim williams, its pees being cocky in his scheme and thinking he can do whatever the hell he wants with any player and skillsets dont mattter because his scheme is god.

i mean can you honestly say he uses personnel well? brandon williams at 3T and playing passing downs when clearly fatigued while willie henry rides the bench, while tyus bowser who is super versatile sits on the bench most of the year correa and onwuasor get nearly all the snaps next to mosley, 2 gapped with jernigan his whole time here, this is nothing new, this isnt a tim williams issue, this is a pees issue that has gone on for years.

 

[allblackraven]

this isnt a tim williams issue, this is a pees issue that has gone on for years.

And very much Harbaugh issue for letting it happen for so long.

 

[Tru11]

This is a great demonstration of how differently we treat rookies and pseudo-rookies to other guys

Bowser had 3 bad plays in one game and saw his snaps reduce for the rest of the year wholesale

Vets show consistently bad snaps but don’t get benched the same way

The coaching staff philosophically treat young players differently - they are almost waiting for the rookies to fail and yet somehow also root for the older guys to succeed even when they aren’t playing well

And with regards to Marlon - yes he played number 3 cb snaps and rotated in but he clearly should have been starting ahead of Brandon Carr from like week 3 onwards

Veteran players have always gotten a different treatment then rookies and pseudo-rookies.
Its nothing new and it certainly not limited to this coaching staff.
Anyone who has been watching football before the flacco era know this which judging by who agrees with you are not many.

The NFL treats young players differently not just this coaching staff.
Veteran players run the locker room not kids who just made it to the NFL.

Are you actually pleading that someone like Bowser should get the same treatment as Suggs from the start for instance?

Which vet showed consistent bad snaps with a better younger player on the roster waiting to get a shot?

 

[rossihunter2]

Veteran players have always gotten a different treatment then rookies and pseudo-rookies.
Its nothing new and it certainly not limited to this coaching staff.
Anyone who has been watching football before the flacco era know this which judging by who agrees with you are not many.

The NFL treats young players differently not just this coaching staff.
Veteran players run the locker room not kids who just made it to the NFL.

Are you actually pleading that someone like Bowser should get the same treatment as Suggs from the start for instance?

Which vet showed consistent bad snaps with a better younger player on the roster waiting to get a shot?

I’m saying the nfl is changing/has changed - a rookie class getting on the field can vault you from mediocrity to almost the top of the hill

The nfl used to treat young players differently but mostly that’s changed now - in fact the 3 teams that seem to hold back rookies the longest are the ravens, steelers and bengals and even the steelers are changing now

 

[Tru11]

I’m saying the nfl is changing/has changed - a rookie class getting on the field can vault you from mediocrity to almost the top of the hill

The nfl used to treat young players differently but mostly that’s changed now - in fact the 3 teams that seem to hold back rookies the longest are the ravens, steelers and bengals and even the steelers are changing now

You need to nail the rookie class if you want them to take you to the top of the hill.

They are still treated the same way as ever.

They all have to proof in TC and pre season that they deserve snaps.

None of them is guaranteed anything coming into this league.

It simply easier for certain guys to get those snaps because they are either just that good or the competition was certainly lacking.

Which rookies have the ravens been holding back?

 

[Adreme]

sacks dont happen in a vacuum, you cant say "X didnt get a sack so X failed", its not that simple. in VERY few snaps, he showed on more than one occasion the ability to line up 1v1 against a respectable NFL tackle and beat the living daylights out of them on a given snap occasionally, he did it to the best LT in the NFL and there is no way around that, a quick release doesnt mean he failed, more likely it means the DB failed, so theres that.

and you talk like ZDS is some excellent run stuffer, he isnt, hes average at best, certainly not good enough to hold down other edge rushers in favor of him so you dont "telegraph" the rush. on 3rd and long what the fuck else is an edge rusher/DT gonna do? if you have 4 down linemen on a 3rd and long play, you send ZDS out there instead of tim williams to what... make the offense think were keying in on the run? well we would be idiots to operate like that, all 4 of those down linemen are gonna be rushing the passer, the presence of zadarius smith doesnt confuse anyone, hell we could have brandon williams, michael pierce, brandon mckinnie and terrence cody as the 4 down linemen on 3rd and long and they still know were gonna come after the qb. theres no deception to be made on these obvious passing downs, which is why it is of no benefit to field a proven failure over tim williams, its pees being cocky in his scheme and thinking he can do whatever the hell he wants with any player and skillsets dont mattter because his scheme is god.

i mean can you honestly say he uses personnel well? brandon williams at 3T and playing passing downs when clearly fatigued while willie henry rides the bench, while tyus bowser who is super versatile sits on the bench most of the year correa and onwuasor get nearly all the snaps next to mosley, 2 gapped with jernigan his whole time here, this is nothing new, this isnt a tim williams issue, this is a pees issue that has gone on for years.

I very openly was trying not to say anything nice about ZDS because I do not think he is good but he was better against the run and had the same influence against the pass.

Also I would settle for at least a hurry and not a sack. However when you have no influence on the play that makes me wonder even if you got by your defender, if that was a thing they considered acceptable because it was supposed to be a quick release and your job is just not to get beat inside. Ive always found judging blocking to be a very tricky thing to do in any scenario, but thats why I typically use a simple statistic that if you affected the throw in any way you did a job, if not then you had no influence on the play. Maybe you are right and the DB failed, maybe the play was drawn to be a quick pass in which case no one failed, the safest metric to judge with is results.

Better example. Everyone on this board was swearing that Camp could put up 1000 yard season if he could just stay healthy. He stayed healthy and was nowhere near that good. People like to make excuses for players, but its much harder in positions where you can actually look at results and say this is all that happened. Maybe he is capable of more, maybe he isnt, but the reality is he did not execute. Also the Ravens tend to give their 1st and 2nd round picks a chance to earn starting jobs its just that some cannot pull it off and if you are picked beyond that you were not picked to be a starter in your first year anyway so you earn your spot.