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‘Wink’ is the New Defensive Coordinator

Ice Bowl said:
I heard we got the old Browns D coordinator as our new D coordinator.
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old head coach mike pettine i think - he's an ok coordinator and the packers will be the first team he coordinates for who dont have a liability on the other side of the ball... could be a nice fit
 
Sami84 said:
I want Mark Andrews. he's a far far better TE than there are WR's in this draft. I also like Jackson (cb) from Iowa. I'm not super sold on R.smith...he doesnt strike me as a cant miss.
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No one is ever can’t miss for thst matter. I like Mark Andrews as well and like the 2nd round for WRs, but that’s not the question he asked. He wants to know what wr you would take.
 
Tru11 said:
if he where late then he did not get there.

if he would have been there in time he surely would have earned more snaps.



well he can only do 1 thing and he aint exactly an upgrade over suggs and judon at this point.
even smith offers more then him at this point.
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um that's naive to think being a little late to get a sack is not "getting there" - a qb hit/pressure can force the qb into mistakes or can put a throw off and lead to turnovers - its not like he was hitting the qb late every time and nearly getting RTP penalties - no he was beating tackles around the edge and forcing qbs to get the ball out earlier

and to criticise a player for only being able to do one thing is a little stupid too - there are loads of players in the nfl who can only do 1 thing well and they earn huge contracts... absolutely timmy should have been on the field more

again i think its naive to also think that all edge rushes are the same - sizzle and judon have their own styles but neither of them bend the edge and have the speed round the edge that timmy has already - if he can get more snaps and progress then he's a style of rush weapon that this team has not had for a long while...
 
RavensMania said:
No one is ever can’t miss for thst matter. I like Mark Andrews as well and like the 2nd round for WRs, but that’s not the question he asked. He wants to know what wr you would take.
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anthony miller for me, looks better than ridely, sutton and kirk. Just my eye test. If i had to choose of the 3 consensus 1st rounders it would be sutton as he has a more physical aspect to his game.
 
Tru11 said:
he did not get to the QB though
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the question is, did we really use him when we should have? without going back to the tape I can see that when I did see him, he was usually in the backfield
 
Sami84 said:
anthony miller for me, looks better than ridely, sutton and kirk. Just my eye test. If i had to choose of the 3 consensus 1st rounders it would be sutton as he has a more physical aspect to his game.
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I do like Anthony Milller a lot and he will be a 1st round talent, just not sure where he ends up. I think Ridley is the best wr in this class, though. Thanks for sharing your opinion.
 
Grim said:
Tim Williams just didn’t look good when he played. He looked lost and like the game was moving too fast for him and I think that caused him to be slow to react. Granted that’s because we wanted him to contain and cover but that’s what’s expected of an OLB here in our system due to disguises.
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And there is the issue, when you emphasize scheme over talent then talent is wasted. If we lack pass rush, put pass rushers on the field, to hell with disguising, put your 2 best edge rushers and your 2 best penetrators and let them get after the qb. I'd much rather have legit pass rushers out there hunting on 3rd down.

That's why 4-3 is just better. You can get your best pass rushers and best cover LBs on the field and let them do their jobs and not have to worry about who can disguise and fool the qb. QBs have been figuring out our defense, it's part of why we have late meltdowns, these disguises are on film and the semi smart qbs see it for 3 quarters and they start recognizing things and manipulating our defense, and suddenly those jack of all trade edge defenders are no longer sufficient because we can't get to the qb anymore. If you put a dangerous speed rusher like Tim Williams out there on 3rd and long and let him pin his ears back, you're just way better off than having an average edge rusher out there for the sake of "not showing your hand" where a smart qb can recognize it and pick it apart.
 
Tru11 said:
if he where late then he did not get there.

if he would have been there in time he surely would have earned more snaps.



well he can only do 1 thing and he aint exactly an upgrade over suggs and judon at this point.
even smith offers more then him at this point.
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Sacks don't happen in a vacuum. A well schemed play and a little luck for the offense can nullify an edge rusher beating a tackle thoroughly, like vs Green Bay where the tackle thought he was squaring up with Williams until he blasted past him but hundley was releasing a panicked throw. If you aren't getting a fair number of rush snaps it's hard to get sacks, unless something just really plays out in your favor.

Tim Williams was beating tackles soundly on his few rush snaps, as well as anyone on the team, but since beating a tackle doesn't guarantee a sack for a huge number of reasons, he didn't get home. That didn't make him not good enough.
 
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Sami84 said:
anthony miller for me, looks better than ridely, sutton and kirk. Just my eye test. If i had to choose of the 3 consensus 1st rounders it would be sutton as he has a more physical aspect to his game.
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So, if you like Miller better, then why choose Sutton?
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
So, if you like Miller better, then why choose Sutton?
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I said of the consensus 1st rounders that are popular around the media i like sutton..for me though Miller is better than all 3. We could trade back and stockpile picks and get him end of the first.
 
Sami84 said:
I said of the consensus 1st rounders that are popular around the media i like sutton..for me though Miller is better than all 3. We could trade back and stockpile picks and get him end of the first.
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For once I agree 100%
I'm defending my choice of miller at 16 on my latest mock to the whole forum
 
rossihunter2 said:
um that's naive to think being a little late to get a sack is not "getting there" - a qb hit/pressure can force the qb into mistakes or can put a throw off and lead to turnovers - its not like he was hitting the qb late every time and nearly getting RTP penalties - no he was beating tackles around the edge and forcing qbs to get the ball out earlier

and to criticise a player for only being able to do one thing is a little stupid too - there are loads of players in the nfl who can only do 1 thing well and they earn huge contracts... absolutely timmy should have been on the field more

again i think its naive to also think that all edge rushes are the same - sizzle and judon have their own styles but neither of them bend the edge and have the speed round the edge that timmy has already - if he can get more snaps and progress then he's a style of rush weapon that this team has not had for a long while...
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its not about what can happen, its about what happened.

if you can only do 1 thing and you aint even the best at doing that on the team then you might not get many snaps.
those that get huge money doing just 1 thing are usually amongst the top at doing just that.

i think you are missing the point completely.
timmy certainly has a lot potential and can grow into 1 of the top pass rushers in the league.

he however is not there yet and this past season he has not shown enough for the coaches to surpass suggs, judon and smith as the pass rushers.
next season he can after having experienced a full nfl season.

however he could also be like perriman and dissapear completely next season....
 
Sami84 said:
I want Mark Andrews. he's a far far better TE than there are WR's in this draft. I also like Jackson (cb) from Iowa. I'm not super sold on R.smith...he doesnt strike me as a cant miss.
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... I actually agree with you on Andrews. Love the dude. "But you only compared him to Witten".. Yeah. Witten is a future HOFer for a reason. Flacco would kill to have that here.... Fuck it any QB would.

I normally hate the idea of TEs in the first but with Andrews... Do it
 
Lost_In_Translation said:
... I actually agree with you on Andrews. Love the dude. "But you only compared him to Witten".. Yeah. Witten is a future HOFer for a reason. Flacco would kill to have that here.... Fuck it any QB would.

I normally hate the idea of TEs in the first but with Andrews... Do it
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I’m not a fan of TEs in the first either, due to the time it takes for them, for the most part, to adjust to the NFL game, but wouldn’t be upset.
 
rossihunter2 said:
you're right that he didnt consistently look great - but he absolutely flashed moments of dominant pass rush play (and the kind of edge rush play that we havent had in baltimore for a while)

there's a fun example of a great pass rush snap by timmy on my profile - i made it into a gif so others could see the play:

https://media.giphy.com/media/26FeXMxUTkNvjWfx6/giphy.gif
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Yeah, he looked good at times so I feel like he should take a nice leap from Year one to two. That’s the big thing we have to hope happens because if not we’ll be in quite a bit of trouble because we frankly can’t afford for him to not take a step forward. Suggs is getting older and I don’t know how long he can continue to spit in the face of Father Time but the day will come for sure. He’s got the potential but you can tell the game is too fast for him to multitask on different responsibilities right now. I really hope that changes soon
 
JoeyFlex5 said:
And there is the issue, when you emphasize scheme over talent then talent is wasted. If we lack pass rush, put pass rushers on the field, to hell with disguising, put your 2 best edge rushers and your 2 best penetrators and let them get after the qb. I'd much rather have legit pass rushers out there hunting on 3rd down.

That's why 4-3 is just better. You can get your best pass rushers and best cover LBs on the field and let them do their jobs and not have to worry about who can disguise and fool the qb. QBs have been figuring out our defense, it's part of why we have late meltdowns, these disguises are on film and the semi smart qbs see it for 3 quarters and they start recognizing things and manipulating our defense, and suddenly those jack of all trade edge defenders are no longer sufficient because we can't get to the qb anymore. If you put a dangerous speed rusher like Tim Williams out there on 3rd and long and let him pin his ears back, you're just way better off than having an average edge rusher out there for the sake of "not showing your hand" where a smart qb can recognize it and pick it apart.
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Well you can scheme up poor talent to hide it but I do agree that you should put your players in positions to succeed and if the hole is round don’t put a square peg into it. It doesn’t make sense and that’s why I like how teams like the Patriots can adapt in that way even though their talent on defense is mediocre at best in many areas. I agree and disagree on the 4-3 topic because I like it for Bowser because I think he would do awesome in the 4-3 but I’m not sure Williams would be as effective but it doesn’t matter because we do rotate between them both a bit and that’s partly why we want our linebackers to be hybrids to have that flexibility to rush or drop back.

I think the reason we have meltdowns is because we just get conservative with how we call plays and appear to give the middle of the field to keep the other team in bounds to force the ball there and run the clock out but I think our LB and S being unable to cover that area has hurt us significantly. I’m hoping with Young coming back to handle slot duties that’ll improve as well as with the addition of a coverage LB.
 
Grim said:
Yeah, he looked good at times so I feel like he should take a nice leap from Year one to two. That’s the big thing we have to hope happens because if not we’ll be in quite a bit of trouble because we frankly can’t afford for him to not take a step forward. Suggs is getting older and I don’t know how long he can continue to spit in the face of Father Time but the day will come for sure. He’s got the potential but you can tell the game is too fast for him to multitask on different responsibilities right now. I really hope that changes soon
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i mean we do have bowser too - ideally they both take a step and blossom into key pieces of our defence but we have the insurance that we can afford one to not grow into an edge rush talent as long as the other progresses - that's been the main problem with all these missed 2nd and 3rd round picks in recent times - not that the individual picks failed but that it's both picks that have not yielded anything

that has to stop this time around - the 2017 draft yielded 3 day 2 front 7 prospects and we need at least 1 of them to become a top-level piece - but they are insurance for each other this time around - 2 guys can fail and we could still come out of the draft with a positive attitude as long as the other succeeds - ideally all 4 become important players but that statistically unlikely
 
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