The Bad, the Ugly, and the Ravens: Week 17 Edition

[Sledge Hammer]

It’s really hard to claim that we would have made the playoffs if we had signed Claiborne, instead of Carr. Especially since Claiborne was the 98th rated cb, giving up 30 more points than Carr. Let’s not forget, Carr had four interceptions this year also, Claiborne had one interception in 15 games.

Another part of the equation is the contract with Carr is very team friendly, with option years in every year of the contract and a very team friendly deal. Claiborne ended up getting a one yr contract, but most likely wanted a longer contract when we brought him in, as well as more money. This last part is just an opinion, but that’s just belief.

Anyway, with this information, you can’t really say he would have been better than Carr.

Scheme has a lot to do with that. Last year Carr looked pretty bad. Claiborne was pro bowl caliber b4 the Injury. Any team in the league would prefer Claiborne over Carr.

 

[RavensMania]

Scheme has a lot to do with that. Last year Carr looked pretty bad. Claiborne was pro bowl caliber b4 the Injury. Any team in the league would prefer Claiborne over Carr.

Some teams would also be scared away due to Claiborne’s injury history

 

[Truth]

I disagree to an extent about who was responsible for who. Right from the get go, it was Weddle and Clark who took the tight end and Bernard into coverage. Weddle right from the get go doesn't even look at Boyd and Clark seems to zero in on Bernard.

It wasn't until Dalton began to settle in on the possibility of throwing to Boyd that Weddle even came off of his man and began to run toward Boyd. Mosley, on the other hand, instantly darts up field to carry Boyd. There wasn't any hesitation about it. And furthermore to aid in it being Tampa 2, Mosley DID settle in at about 13 or so yards, about where you'd expect the Mike to drop for his deep thirds.

One thing we CAN entirely agree upon, though, is that the biggest culprit is Canady. Why was he committing so hard to LaFell? Carr had LaFell pinned squarely to the sideline and with so little separation, that's an incredibly high degree of difficulty to make that throw and catch and on fourth down, you're not throwing that ball there. But, how Canady reacted is pretty much what we'd expect in a Tampa 2, which makes me believe it was that further. I wonder if Canady was just playing way too strict to his zone and not reacting to what was actually happening on the field.

Personally, I actually feel the play call was right. Humphrey and Jefferson took away Green, Carr has LaFell covered well, Mosley is taking Boyd down the seam and clearly expects help over the top and if Canady is there, like he should be, that's covered. Underneath, Weddle has the tight end (guessing Kroft) and Clark has Bernard. Really, if Canady covers Boyd over the top, I don't see any way that play actually works out for the Bengals.

And yes, we can 100% agree on terrible execution on the part of the Ravens.

From my understanding, a Tampa 2 is virtually impossible in this scenario. I have yet to come across a single Tampa 2 variation where the MIKE isn't covering the vertical seam. The play begins on the left hash mark. In the second picture of my previous post, Mosley is between the right hash mark and the numbers. The very same goes for Clark on the opposite side, who's between the left hash mark and the numbers. Each one mirrors each other's drops both vertically and horizontally. A player covering a middle zone regardless of the depth of their drop in a literal sense cannot be mirrored on both planes on the opposite side. Jefferson is the deepest on his side and Canady is the deepest on his side, which only leaves the deep middle, where Weddle is both squarely in the middle of both hashes and the deepest defender as he's covering the vertical seam. You are correct in that Mosley finishes his drop at roughly 13 yards, but the depth isn't the key factor but rather the zone being occupied. All three zones above him are occupied. He's occupying the seam/hook zone which is adjacent to Weddle's vertical seam and parallel to Clark's seam/hook zone. It's why both players square their hips at the same time and the same distance, at roughly the 38 yard line; it's not because they're carrying Boyd and Uzomah but because they're just finishing their drops, which unfortunately has been commonplace. I've been criticizing the depth of our collective underneath drops over the course of several games. In either case, we can at least agree that this is a Cover 2 variant.

I am bewildered by the idea that Canady reacted properly to any principle. He's exactly two yards away from Carr horizontally at the time of the throw. I had to measure it just to make sure. That's not a wide enough split for quarters coverage. I can't fathom a fraction-based coverage his actions signify. It's essentially a pure over-the-top double, which I would strongly wager wasn't by design, which is evident with his mirroring counterpart in Jefferson staying home despite having a far more viable target on his side. If either of the two outside deep safeties is playing strictly to their zone, it's Jefferson. I am certainly glad that we can agree on Canady being the main culprit. I am also with you on the latter. I wasn't a fan of the faux blitzes, especially given how deep the drops had to be, but if Canady doesn't commit and stays home, the play likely goes nowhere.

 

[29BmoreBird22]

From my understanding, a Tampa 2 is virtually impossible in this scenario. I have yet to come across a single Tampa 2 variation where the MIKE isn't covering the vertical seam. The play begins on the left hash mark. In the second picture of my previous post, Mosley is between the right hash mark and the numbers. The very same goes for Clark on the opposite side, who's between the left hash mark and the numbers. Each one mirrors each other's drops both vertically and horizontally. A player covering a middle zone regardless of the depth of their drop in a literal sense cannot be mirrored on both planes on the opposite side. Jefferson is the deepest on his side and Canady is the deepest on his side, which only leaves the deep middle, where Weddle is both squarely in the middle of both hashes and the deepest defender as he's covering the vertical seam. You are correct in that Mosley finishes his drop at roughly 13 yards, but the depth isn't the key factor but rather the zone being occupied. All three zones above him are occupied. He's occupying the seam/hook zone which is adjacent to Weddle's vertical seam and parallel to Clark's seam/hook zone. It's why both players square their hips at the same time and the same distance, at roughly the 38 yard line; it's not because they're carrying Boyd and Uzomah but because they're just finishing their drops, which unfortunately has been commonplace. I've been criticizing the depth of our collective underneath drops over the course of several games. In either case, we can at least agree that this is a Cover 2 variant.

I am bewildered by the idea that Canady reacted properly to any principle. He's exactly two yards away from Carr horizontally at the time of the throw. I had to measure it just to make sure. That's not a wide enough split for quarters coverage. I can't fathom a fraction-based coverage his actions signify. It's essentially a pure over-the-top double, which I would strongly wager wasn't by design, which is evident with his mirroring counterpart in Jefferson staying home despite having a far more viable target on his side. If either of the two outside deep safeties is playing strictly to their zone, it's Jefferson. I am certainly glad that we can agree on Canady being the main culprit. I am also with you on the latter. I wasn't a fan of the faux blitzes, especially given how deep the drops had to be, but if Canady doesn't commit and stays home, the play likely goes nowhere.

 

[purplepittabread88]

From my understanding, a Tampa 2 is virtually impossible in this scenario. I have yet to come across a single Tampa 2 variation where the MIKE isn't covering the vertical seam. The play begins on the left hash mark. In the second picture of my previous post, Mosley is between the right hash mark and the numbers. The very same goes for Clark on the opposite side, who's between the left hash mark and the numbers. Each one mirrors each other's drops both vertically and horizontally. A player covering a middle zone regardless of the depth of their drop in a literal sense cannot be mirrored on both planes on the opposite side. Jefferson is the deepest on his side and Canady is the deepest on his side, which only leaves the deep middle, where Weddle is both squarely in the middle of both hashes and the deepest defender as he's covering the vertical seam. You are correct in that Mosley finishes his drop at roughly 13 yards, but the depth isn't the key factor but rather the zone being occupied. All three zones above him are occupied. He's occupying the seam/hook zone which is adjacent to Weddle's vertical seam and parallel to Clark's seam/hook zone. It's why both players square their hips at the same time and the same distance, at roughly the 38 yard line; it's not because they're carrying Boyd and Uzomah but because they're just finishing their drops, which unfortunately has been commonplace. I've been criticizing the depth of our collective underneath drops over the course of several games. In either case, we can at least agree that this is a Cover 2 variant.

I am bewildered by the idea that Canady reacted properly to any principle. He's exactly two yards away from Carr horizontally at the time of the throw. I had to measure it just to make sure. That's not a wide enough split for quarters coverage. I can't fathom a fraction-based coverage his actions signify. It's essentially a pure over-the-top double, which I would strongly wager wasn't by design, which is evident with his mirroring counterpart in Jefferson staying home despite having a far more viable target on his side. If either of the two outside deep safeties is playing strictly to their zone, it's Jefferson. I am certainly glad that we can agree on Canady being the main culprit. I am also with you on the latter. I wasn't a fan of the faux blitzes, especially given how deep the drops had to be, but if Canady doesn't commit and stays home, the play likely goes nowhere.

Thank you very much for that break down. It was kind of hard to identify what was going on defensively for me once the play started. By far, my biggest problem with the play was the fake blitz. Yea it’s 4&12 I totally bet that they will blitz and leave full man coverage on Aj green and the middle of the field open. Pees got too damn cute once again and it cost us. Even if it wasn’t Mosley’s zone, the extra few steps and gained vision would have let him make a play. And why the hell is Canady playing deep safety and Weddle underneath??? We should have had Webb out there on that play, no question. Even if we allowed the first it just needed to not be a touchdown so what the hell are we doing getting cute? I’m very glad Pees and his cute shit is gone. It doesn’t fucking work on good QBs. No question chuck is smart enough to double brown on a last drive. Ugh

 

[TheCity5]

Honestly, at this point, I strongly disagree with this being a Tampa 2 coverage. Tampa 2 is predicated upon the MLB covering anywhere from the vertical seam to the middle third, and that area is occupied by Weddle. Mosley is basically covering what amounts to the deep hook/curl zone just inside of the numbers, mirroring Clark on the other side. My main issue with the possibility of Canady doubling on LaFell is that LaFell didn't have a semblance of clear separation at the time that Canady trailed off in his direction. At this very moment, Canady has already zeroed in on LaFell (Link), with his eyes squarely inside the numbers. Carr to that point surrendered 16 yards, so he wasn't likely to struggle with LaFell, a WR without a second gear with 35 yards to that point and an ugly drop. I truly have a difficult time seeing the need to overextend in that scenario.

Here's why I personally attribute the results mainly to Canady instead of Mosley. This is the outlook as Dalton is gearing up for the throw (Link). I've highlighted where the catch was made. Coincidentally, it's almost a mirror reflection of where Tony Jefferson is positioned on the opposite side, whom is also covering the same exact principles. Jefferson, Clark, Weddle and Mosley are all facing the QB. The latter three remain shallow given that they have expected help over the top. We now know that it's a go-route by Boyd. However, at the time, this was obviously not a given. If Mosley carries himself up the field and Boyd sits down at the sticks, it's a possible first down. If he carries himself up the seam and Boyd continues, they could dump it to Bernard and attempt to convert to the now-open side. Both aren't quite likely, but that's why Mosley stays home in his zone, and do Weddle and Clark. It is incredibly difficult to successfully be a hero in zone coverage on the back end. Each level trusts the players behind them to be in position. Not only is Canady not near the zone, he's also facing the complete opposite direction as it's about to be made. Could Mosley have drifted back further? Perhaps so, but the catch is made 7 yards behind him, at the exact spot where the safety was seemingly intended to be, and I don't believe that this was his designation. He would've had to vacate his zone entirely. To me, the play falls apart entirely the moment that Canady makes the decision to commit entirely to LaFell. It was far from a perfect play-call as well, as both you and I have mentioned. But looking at the second image above, it's hard not to wonder what would've happened if Canady was in position. If he's staying home and facing the play, it could very well be dead in the water for Cincinnati baring a miraculous catch and/or YAC. That's just my opinion though. Take it only for what it's worth.

I think we can all agree that Canady indeed failed us here with his terrible positioning and decision to double on LaFell when he was covered very well. Harbaugh said post-game that they played 2-man zone on the Final defensive play so in that aspect I think it might be Tampa 2, just a very poorly executed Tampa 2.

Looking at the All-22, it's clear that Weddle had the middle hook and here's where my problem with Mosley is. If he had responsibility of the seam then why does he stop his drop at the 40? This is why I have my doubts as to whether this was Tampa as well.

In a base cover 2, Mosley would have done almost exactly as he did here, the LB drops in the underneath middle zone, but in a Tampa 2, the LB drops deep into the middle of the field in correspondence with the deepest receiver. In this play, Mosley stops his drop at the 40 rather then run with the deepest receiver as he's supposed to.

I think this might just be a cover 2, but a unique 2-man zone look that was just terribly executed.

If this is Tampa 2, then I think if Mosley played above the sticks, and doesn't stop his drop, then this play is dead. Plain and simple which is why if this is Tampa 2, then Mosley is as guilty as Canady, but if that's not the case which I might be on board with you in that aspect, then I certainly think this one falls on Canady plain and simple for attempting to double a receiver that was clearly covered.

I think Pees just got a little too cute here. I think he made a great call if it was Tampa 2 but the decision to have Mosley in the gap rather then Weddle hurts. I just want to know that in a Tampa 2, why Mosley isn't playing above the sticks? If you want to confuse the Bengals OL then having Weddle in the gap makes much more sense.

 

[Militant X 1]

Did you see my OG post? I replied to someone's post in regards to the empty seats in today's game and how embarrassing it was.

I replied and agreed and said that IMO I blame the Ravens players kneeling during the London game for the historically low attendance at our once beloved home turf. I meant it to be simplified but then someone replied to it with a very long political post and we ended up going back and fourth for a while. It does in fact relate to this week's game and is pretty much the sum of the 2017 NFL season.

I see. Well, I went to the Ravens vs Steelers game at M&T and the stadium was pretty full and that was after their kneeling in London. The game the other night was flexed from 1 to 4:30 p.m. ...on NEW YEARS EVE! I'm pretty sure that was a MAJOR factor in the low attendance this past Sunday.

 

[Tank]

I see. Well, I went to the Ravens vs Steelers game at M&T and the stadium was pretty full and that was after their kneeling in London. The game the other night was flexed from 1 to 4:30 p.m. ...on NEW YEARS EVE! I'm pretty sure that was a MAJOR factor in the low attendance this past Sunday.

I bet 30% of the people at the squealers game were waving yellow turd towels. lol

Temps in the teens, NYE, game flexed, etc. were big reasons for the poor attendance. But the unhappiness with the kneeling in London is a real thing and caused a lot of the empty seats throughout the year. There will also be more than the usual amount of PSLs for sale this year. Their money, just what it is.

 

[Tank]

I hate that the Ravens missed the playoffs on the last play of the season, especially when again the win seemed in hand. The more I think about it the angrier I get. Time to stop thinking about it, until I think about it again. lol

The wild card weekend commercial no longer shows the snippet of Ray holding up the SB trophy.

 

[Militant X 1]

I hate that the Ravens missed the playoffs on the last play of the season, especially when again the win seemed in hand. The more I think about it the angrier I get. Time to stop thinking about it, until I think about it again. lol

The wild card weekend commercial no longer shows the snippet of Ray holding up the SB trophy.

What I hate is the fact that not only have the Ravens missed the playoffs...AGAIN...due to their piss poor game play across the boards but also that they are ONCE AGAIN, the brunt of other fanbase's highlights. First, we have the damn "Immaculate Reception" commercial that is being played over and over and over again for Steelers fans to enjoy.

And now, we have to watch clip after clip after clip of the Buffalo Bills team (in the locker room) and their fanbase cheering as Andy Dalton tosses that 4th & 12 game winning touchdown that ENDED THE RAVENS SEASON IN BALTIMORE for Bills fans to enjoy!

Damn sickening man!

 

[Tank]

What I hate is the fact that not only have the Ravens missed the playoffs...AGAIN...due to their piss poor game play across the boards but also that they are ONCE AGAIN, the brunt of other fanbase's highlights. First, we have the damn "Immaculate Reception" commercial that is being played over and over and over again for Steelers fans to enjoy.

And now, we have to watch clip after clip after clip of the Buffalo Bills team (in the locker room) and their fanbase cheering as Andy Dalton tosses that 4th & 12 game winning touchdown that ENDED THE RAVENS SEASON IN BALTIMORE for Bills fans to enjoy!

Damn sickening man!

One stinking play. How in the hell do you give up a 50 yard TD on 4th and 12? much less giving up that play when it decides whether you get into the playoffs? Not that they had a squad to go deep into the tournament, but damn, at least they could have had the shot. Haven’t been this disappointed about football since the 2011 playoffs.

Still think they got ripped off though. That play where Weddle made the pick was not close to being a hold on Humphrey. He and AJ Green just ran into each other. Terrible call that ended up deciding the outcome of the game.

 

[Militant X 1]

One stinking play. How in the hell do you give up a 50 yard TD on 4th and 12? much less giving up that play when it decides whether you get into the playoffs? Not that they had a squad to go deep into the tournament, but damn, at least they could have had the shot. Haven’t been this disappointed about football since the 2011 playoffs.

Still think they got ripped off though. That play where Weddle made the pick was not close to being a hold on Humphrey. He and AJ Green just ran into each other. Terrible call that ended up deciding the outcome of the game.

True! But, for me I keep going back to how piss poorly the team played in the 1st half man. They looked NOTHING like a playoff team! Their game play was actually a microcosm of what was to take place in the 4th qrtr.

In the 1st qrtr....the Bengals offense just marched down the field in their 1st possession at will and was met with very little resistance by the defense. Then, in the final few minutes of the 4th qrt....the Bengals offense...once again....seemingly marched down the field with very little resistance and then....IT....happened! A 4th & 12....game winning for the Bengals.....and SEASON ENDING TOUCHDOWN for the Ravens. Pathetic and embarrassing as a fan!

I traveled to Texas on Monday and for the 1st time in years.....I didn't wear any Ravens gear on that journey. Why not? Cause I didn't want to hear anyone in the Airport mentioning or bringing up that 4th & 12 play. And guess what? Glad I didn't cause there was a cat at my gate sporting his Bengals cold weather cap! Ughhhhh!

 

[jcn]

For those of you that blamed the whole entire team for the depressing Week 17 loss last season, could you list out how every single player that took the field that evening deserved blame? And in doing so, please be specific and no silly stuff.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

On THE play, canady and pees mostly.

 

[jcn]

On THE play, canady and pees mostly.

The reason to why Canady deserved blame is a good start as I couldn't agree with you more. So now, how do all the other players that took part in the game that night deserve blame?

 

[Ravensnation5220]

On THE play, canady and pees mostly.

Mosely also didnt get deep enough in his drop......

 

[Ravensnation5220]

The reason to why Canady deserved blame is a good start as I couldn't agree with you more. So now, how do all the other players that took part in the game that night deserve blame?

Humphrey dropped a pick on THE drive

 

[JoeyFlex5]

Mosely also didnt get deep enough in his drop......

Thanks to pees scheming him to show an A gap blitz pre snap rather than letting him position himself properly.

 

[NYSE5]

Thanks to pees scheming him to show an A gap blitz pre snap rather than letting him position himself properly.

With Pees gone next season who will be the new scapegoat for failure?

 

[RaineV1]

With Pees gone next season who will be the new scapegoat for failure?

Do people honestly believe Pees has no blame in the matter?