The Ty Huntley, The Big Plays and The Andy Dalton

[rossihunter2]

Agree. Was criminally undervalued by the fanbase. The whole "he was trash" thing isn't supportable on film. People still blame him for the Flacco injury and then pretended like he was garbage years later. He wasn't.
In my eyes, he's a Ben Powers level Guard. A lot of teams would probably like to have somebody better, but from a roster construction standpoint, most teams can't afford to have studs up and down their Oline, so a lot of teams start a player or two like him.

We were highly competitive in the playoffs (including winning a road game in Pittsburgh) with Hurst playing LT.

saints OL has hardly skipped a beat this year with Hurst at tackle or guard

 

[RavensMania]

was the other way around - think he screwed up the 2nd one because the first was in his head still and just reacted to the hop

But he’ll learn from it and he’s been a pretty nice gunner so far this year

and obviously Hollywood was out but I noticed Wallace getting some snaps there at the end on offence too

I seem to remember the first one bouncing over him and the 2nd one he seemed surprised as the ball bounced laterally toward him.

 

[RavensMania]

Yup, my bad.

I tend to give you the benefit of the doubt, but occasionally I like debating with you. It's a losing battle for the most part. lol

 

[RavensMania]

Agree. Was criminally undervalued by the fanbase. The whole "he was trash" thing isn't supportable on film. People still blame him for the Flacco injury and then pretended like he was garbage years later. He wasn't.
In my eyes, he's a Ben Powers level Guard. A lot of teams would probably like to have somebody better, but from a roster construction standpoint, most teams can't afford to have studs up and down their Oline, so a lot of teams start a player or two like him.

We were highly competitive in the playoffs (including winning a road game in Pittsburgh) with Hurst playing LT.

I didn't have too much of an issue with Hurst until he was extended. The amount he was signed for as I recall was higher than other better Lineman at the time. Now I'm foggy due to the timing, but that was my issue. I liked having him as a backup, and didn't have too many issues with him at guard either, but was not a fan of him being the starting left tackle, although I didn't mind him there in a pinch.. I actually believe familiarity is what lead to his extension. We knew what he could do and he was average in our scheme.

 

[rmcjacket23]

I didn't have too much of an issue with Hurst until he was extended. The amount he was signed for as I recall was higher than other better Lineman at the time. Now I'm foggy due to the timing, but that was my issue. I liked having him as a backup, and didn't have too many issues with him at guard either, but was not a fan of him being the starting left tackle, although I didn't mind him there in a pinch.. I actually believe familiarity is what lead to his extension. We knew what he could do and he was average in our scheme.

He got high-end backup, low-end starter money, which he ended up starting quite a bit. A lot of people scoffed at the $, but like our Oline was in shambles when he was here, and we had nobody else we were paying decent money to instead of Yanda. I thought it was a wake up call for the fanbase to realize that teams need depth on the Oline, and that teams value it. Even today we spent half our time talking about who the starters are and who's going to play this position and that position, and then you get to the regular season and half of them are missing half the season, and you realize "o shit, nobody cares who the starting RT is going to be, because they won't be healthy enough to play anyway".

Plus people should now be looking around realizing that when you've got Villlaneuva and Tyre and Mekari starting lots of games for you, suddenly James Hurst doesn't look that bad.

 

[Michael M.]

He got high-end backup, low-end starter money, which he ended up starting quite a bit. A lot of people scoffed at the $, but like our Oline was in shambles when he was here, and we had nobody else we were paying decent money to instead of Yanda. I thought it was a wake up call for the fanbase to realize that teams need depth on the Oline, and that teams value it. Even today we spent half our time talking about who the starters are and who's going to play this position and that position, and then you get to the regular season and half of them are missing half the season, and you realize "o shit, nobody cares who the starting RT is going to be, because they won't be healthy enough to play anyway".

Plus people should now be looking around realizing that when you've got Villlaneuva and Tyre and Mekari starting lots of games for you, suddenly James Hurst doesn't look that bad.

Both Jensen and Hurst doing well with other teams. Co-incidence, coaching, or play scheme?

 

[purplepittabread88]

I didn't have too much of an issue with Hurst until he was extended. The amount he was signed for as I recall was higher than other better Lineman at the time. Now I'm foggy due to the timing, but that was my issue. I liked having him as a backup, and didn't have too many issues with him at guard either, but was not a fan of him being the starting left tackle, although I didn't mind him there in a pinch.. I actually believe familiarity is what lead to his extension. We knew what he could do and he was average in our scheme.

I have to hard disagree with you on this. I dont think we ended up paying him any more than 2-3 mil a year. Being super average and being active for 16 games is worth every cent of that.
He was always healthy and did way more than he was fit to for us. Dude was a udfa guard starting at left tackle. I put more rage on the busts and injured linemen we had. Hurst was average, but he was always suited up. He was an incredible 6th lineman

 

[Davesta]

They clowning on wink.

 

[rossihunter2]

Both Jensen and Hurst doing well with other teams. Co-incidence, coaching, or play scheme?

both did well here too (and were developed by the ravens since being rookies)
not sure what the gotcha is supposed to be here?

 

[purplepittabread88]

Both Jensen and Hurst doing well with other teams. Co-incidence, coaching, or play scheme?

Jensen was a beast here no one disagrees with that. Probably one of the Ravens I was most sad about letting go in my life, hes on the list with Torrey Smith and Mcphee the first time

 

[Michael M.]

both did well here too (and were developed by the ravens since being rookies)
not sure what the gotcha is supposed to be here?

Never heard anyone say good things about Hurst until now, and also never heard anyone question why Jensen got little play time until Harbs was forced to use him due to injury

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I didn't have too much of an issue with Hurst until he was extended. The amount he was signed for as I recall was higher than other better Lineman at the time. Now I'm foggy due to the timing, but that was my issue. I liked having him as a backup, and didn't have too many issues with him at guard either, but was not a fan of him being the starting left tackle, although I didn't mind him there in a pinch.. I actually believe familiarity is what lead to his extension. We knew what he could do and he was average in our scheme.

he was a really solid LG for us actually, borderline starting caliber at times, but he occasionally had really low lows that were maddening. i think all in all he was just a harbaugh guy who had experience at multiple spots and that was why we wanted him

 

[JAAM]

They clowning on wink.

I just wish we could find a medium between Wink’s all out blitzes and Dean’s bend-don’t-break style of play calling, which I guess is what the crew here is saying. 4th and 13 or whatever it was, just play the sticks but make sure no one gets behind you. Play it safe. I feel like every OC knows what Wink is sending. Personnel is also an issue, and I personally wouldn’t leave Westry by himself

 

[Michael M.]

I guess what I remember was Hurst getting a bad rap and happily released and Jensen being waived off like good riddance...

 

[JoeyFlex5]

They clowning on wink.

its so frustrating that the whole goddamn world can see it, but our coaches cant.

its 4th and 11 and we have TWO starting dbs on the field and you put all of these deep backups on islands in the biggest money down in the game, no disguise, and send the same blitz they almost burned you on earlier in the game. why do we keep doing it?

im getting so goddamn close to wanting wink gone man, hes brilliant at times, but man he can be so bad situationally and so stupidly unaware of what our reality is as far as talent goes on defense right now, the cupboard is bare and he still coaches like we have 11 starters

 

[rmcjacket23]

Both Jensen and Hurst doing well with other teams. Co-incidence, coaching, or play scheme?

I mean I thought they both did fairly well here, so I think they're just pretty good players. Jensen was a high end Center the last year he was here and was mostly just a "late bloomer". Hurst is playing about as well as he did when he was a Raven. He just got unwarranted criticism from the fanbase.

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I just wish we could find a medium between Wink’s all out blitzes and Dean’s bend-don’t-break style of play calling, which I guess is what the crew here is saying. 4th and 13 or whatever it was, just play the sticks but make sure no one gets behind you. Play it safe. I feel like every OC knows what Wink is sending. Personnel is also an issue, and I personally wouldn’t leave Westry by himself

see pees wasnt necessarily a bend dont break defense, he didnt blitz nearly as much as wink but he did like to blitz, he just got a lot softer on money downs, he liked to show exotic looks and blitz at times and also drop guys from it, he was just much more likely to drop guys than send them on money downs, his problem was he would put guys in no mans land, he would have slow safeties like weddle in the B gap and have him drop to the deep seam at the snap for the sake of disguise but hes already toasted by the time the balls snapped. wink is just sending everyone

 

[JoeyFlex5]

I don't think he needs to alter the gameplan dramatically in most cases, just situationally.

Like the TD pass where Westry gets burned... I really hated the coverage we played. It was 3rd and like 11 I believe, and we're really thin at corner, and we bring a 7 man pressure and leave guys like Westry in straight man coverage with no help. It didn't help that said 7 man pressure didn't actually generate a lot of pressure (as evidence by the fact that Dalton had plenty of time to throw a double move deep ball), but if it were me, I'm playing either a really tight zone or something that doesn't leave me susceptible to a big play there either. I understand everybody is defending the sticks, but that's the downside of said blitz is, when it doesn't get there, it's ripe for abuse.

thats what im trying to say though, im not saying change it completely, im saying that when it gets to late game crunch time, and the offense has been exposed to this scheme for 55 minutes of a game, they know whats coming, instead of doing exactly what they expect you to do, show them what theyre expecting and then change up on them.

 

[rmcjacket23]

its so frustrating that the whole goddamn world can see it, but our coaches cant.

its 4th and 11 and we have TWO starting dbs on the field and you put all of these deep backups on islands in the biggest money down in the game, no disguise, and send the same blitz they almost burned you on earlier in the game. why do we keep doing it?

im getting so goddamn close to wanting wink gone man, hes brilliant at times, but man he can be so bad situationally and so stupidly unaware of what our reality is as far as talent goes on defense right now, the cupboard is bare and he still coaches like we have 11 starters

I was furious at it when it happened. The more I let it marinate I don't "hate" the idea of a blitz, but I think the personnel grouping that the Bears had out there pretty much showed that they knew it was coming. Like they went max protect. They went 3 wide and kept 7 in for protection, including a back and a TE. A lot of teams in that situation are going to go at least four wide and will sometimes send a back or TE out for release.

Not like the play call is rushed either. You have the ability to check out of that look on the defensive side. And we didn't. If they blitzed 7 against a five man protection, Andy almost certainly never gets that throw off, because he doesn't have time for a double move. Then Wink looks like a genius.

It's the combination of that call, coupled with the fact that the Bears knowing we're making that call, that make it look so bad. There's not a lot of OC's who would be like "yeah, we're going to run a double move in man coverage on 4th and 13, where an incompletion ends the game. Almost everybody has multiple routes right past the line of gain to keep the game going. They saw the coverage, had the perfect play called, and executed.

 

[Simba]

its so frustrating that the whole goddamn world can see it, but our coaches cant.

its 4th and 11 and we have TWO starting dbs on the field and you put all of these deep backups on islands in the biggest money down in the game, no disguise, and send the same blitz they almost burned you on earlier in the game. why do we keep doing it?

im getting so goddamn close to wanting wink gone man, hes brilliant at times, but man he can be so bad situationally and so stupidly unaware of what our reality is as far as talent goes on defense right now, the cupboard is bare and he still coaches like we have 11 starters

I think the bigger issue is that he's trying to do the same things he's done in previous years with lesser personnel. You can do these things when you have Humphrey, Peters, Jimmy, Elliott, and Clark out there. You can't do these things when you have young guys like Westry, Stone, and Stephens all learning on the job. I appreciate the trust he's putting in these types of guys but you can't leave them on an island as often as they have been this year. I like the aggressiveness but it's been too often this season and we haven't adjusted that well.