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The Ugly, The Ugly and The Ugly - Steelers Edition

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
For me with Roman, I've just not really been happy with him dating back to last year. I just don't think Roman truly does anything special with the passing game or anything to elevate the passing game. I think that's especially problematic when you're wanting to invest as much as the Ravens are about to in a quarterback.

The thing is, and I said this before, but 49ers and Bills fans forewarned that this would be the course for Roman. They warned that Roman would get his shiny dual threat quarterback and engineer this amazing offense, but teams would quickly adjust and begin to put pressure on his lack of a passing game.

I mean, sure, things could always be worse, but if I'm choosing between dog shit and elephant shit, neither is appealing either way.
My problem is I don't see an OC who will dramatically improve it, because Lamar is just missing too many easy throws and not hitting the routes he should. An OC won't fix that.
Lamar got called out directly like a half dozen times yesterday for simply not throwing the ball to the right read, or just missing the read entirely. Again, that's not coaching. I have zero doubt Roman and various other coaches are showing him on film where that ball is supposed to go. He's just not doing it.

He had several missed throws that need to be executed that could have altered the game. None more important than the 2 point conversion. The people putting that on Andrews are basically saying "yes, we expect you to make juggling one handed catches routinely", because the ball placement was anywhere in the stratosphere of being able to get two hands on it. And that's on the thrower, not on the receiver.

Roman has bad weeks like everybody else, but yesterday wasn't one of them. When I see Lamar executing simple throws and reads and progressions more consistently, and we see the offense get stymied, then I'll look to what the OC is doing. I didn't come out of yesterdays game thinking that Roman was the issue at all.

I think Lamar arguably played worse yesterday than Cleveland.
 

Tank

Hall of Famer
That TOP in the first half though. God we pissed it away. Soooooo lopsided and we put almost jack shit on the board.

also, was it the 4th where they showed total yards for the quarter and it was like 126 Steelers and 5 Ravens? Ugh. Makes me want to puke.

Frustrating, left a bunch of points on the field in the first half. The dumb pick on the first drive was a sign of things to come. If we could have just got the 3 there I think things could have flowed much differently.
 

RL52TheGreatest

Ravens Ring of Honor
I still believed we had a chance to do something this year despite all the injuries, but that is no longer the case if Marlon is also done for the year. Just a shitty game yesterday all-around and we lost our best remaining player on defense. This season blows.
 

ravenslord

Ravens Ring of Honor
I still believed we had a chance to do something this year despite all the injuries, but that is no longer the case if Marlon is also done for the year. Just a shitty game yesterday all-around and we lost our best remaining player on defense. This season blows.
Mekari will probably be out for weeks too. Phillips is the worst RT I've seen in a Ravens uniform.
 

BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
I still believed we had a chance to do something this year despite all the injuries, but that is no longer the case if Marlon is also done for the year. Just a shitty game yesterday all-around and we lost our best remaining player on defense. This season blows.

I agree, we always have a chance with Lamar. If he can forget these last 4 games and just play his game we’ll be ok….unless the Oline gets him killed which is very feasible


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

ndub

Ravens Ring of Honor
I still believed we had a chance to do something this year despite all the injuries, but that is no longer the case if Marlon is also done for the year. Just a shitty game yesterday all-around and we lost our best remaining player on defense. This season blows.

Did we lose Queen? I didn't know that... best remaining defensive player
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
My problem is I don't see an OC who will dramatically improve it, because Lamar is just missing too many easy throws and not hitting the routes he should. An OC won't fix that.
Lamar got called out directly like a half dozen times yesterday for simply not throwing the ball to the right read, or just missing the read entirely. Again, that's not coaching. I have zero doubt Roman and various other coaches are showing him on film where that ball is supposed to go. He's just not doing it.

He had several missed throws that need to be executed that could have altered the game. None more important than the 2 point conversion. The people putting that on Andrews are basically saying "yes, we expect you to make juggling one handed catches routinely", because the ball placement was anywhere in the stratosphere of being able to get two hands on it. And that's on the thrower, not on the receiver.

Roman has bad weeks like everybody else, but yesterday wasn't one of them. When I see Lamar executing simple throws and reads and progressions more consistently, and we see the offense get stymied, then I'll look to what the OC is doing. I didn't come out of yesterdays game thinking that Roman was the issue at all.

I think Lamar arguably played worse yesterday than Cleveland.
Like I said- I've hated Roman dating back to last season, so my frustrations do not stem from what I consider to be a bad game called today.

Sure, the broadcast froze half a dozen times to point out where the ball should have gone, but...

1. I know for a few, the ball was already out or coming out. It does no good to point out that the ball should have gone elsewhere when the ball is out. Did the ball coming out peel back the coverage? Maybe, maybe not. But in any case that assumes that...

2. Lamar feels like he has time to work through his progressions. As Romo would know, a quarterback has a natural progression. Like I said, with how poor the offensive line is, does Lamar feel confident that he has time work deep into his reads? Also, it's cute to point out when a player is open in a freeze frame and say it'd be a better option, but if that player is read four and Lamar saw read two was open, he's going to take read two, even if read four would net more yardage because Lamar hasn't worked there to know that. And that's every QB- no quarterback is going to hold the ball longer because a further read might be open and a better option than the open read they're currently on.

But again, I just have issues with the play calling. Roman doesn't scheme players open; instead he schemes them on top of each other consistently (looking at the interception off Bateman's hands against Cleveland...) and doesn't create these easy throws.

I said this elsewhere, but on the Johnson touchdown, the Steelers executed such a simple concept that just blew the Ravens coverage out of the water and it was a WIDE OPEN touchdown. When's the last time the Ravens had a touchdown that easy? The one I can think of was Brown against the Browns last year. I was listening to the Chiefs game and there was a play where it sounded like the Chiefs had three receivers run pick plays to scheme open another receiver and Collingsworth said something like, "How do you even defend that?" When was the last time we heard that about a Roman called play? Never?

And really, while the broadcast showed maybe half a dozen times where Lamar may have missed a read (refer to above for my issues with this freeze frame analysis that shrinks the view), we also saw half a dozen or more times where the broadcast showed the Ravens receivers were absolutely blanketed and couldn't get open.

Does Lamar need to play better? Sure. But Roman and the line aren't doing him favors.

And as far as the last play of the game is concerned, Andrews absolutely pulled up. Could the throw have been better? Sure. But given that Lamar had to make that throw while jumping to the side to avoid Watt, I thnk it was a good throw. Lamar seemed to expect Andrews to keep running full speed and if Andrews does, it's a walk in. On the other hand, more loft and Andrews still runs under it, so I'm not totally absolving Lamar, but it was on both.
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
Also, in case anyone wants to see the Ravens offensive line in a nut shell, on the final play, there's three offensive lineman laying on one defensive lineman. Just makes you laugh.
 

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BoredMarine13

Ravens Ring of Honor
Also, in case anyone wants to see the Ravens offensive line in a nut shell, on the final play, there's three offensive lineman laying on one defensive lineman. Just makes you laugh.

[emoji23] at some point all you can do is laugh. Poor Lamar


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Argentina Raven

Practice Squad
If we keep justifying Lamar, blaming Roman, Lamar is not going to improve at all. It is lying to yourself.
it is not bad to trip over a stone, the bad thing is to keep tripping over and over again with the same stone.
applies to Lamar, Roman and Wink
 

Grim

Ravens Ring of Honor
I’m not sure if the failed 2PT conversion is a microcosm of our season or not yet but it sure feels like it. You always knew from the start of the year that this year would be a challenge due to the early injuries we suffered; however, it just feels like it’s too much now. We’re down almost our entire starting secondary (Peters, Humphrey, Elliott), our dirty work DL player in Wolfe, key OL starters like Stanley and now Mekari as well as Cleveland, then you lost your entire starting RB corps before the season began, no Nick Boyle, etc. It really does feel like the wheels fell off the bus this time. You can never count us out and the rest of the NFL sucks just as much but hasn’t lost nearly as many guys as us so maybe there’s a chance we win in the special Super Bowl this year of whoever is last man standing but man does it feel like the hole is getting deeper
 

rmcjacket23

Ravens Ring of Honor
Like I said- I've hated Roman dating back to last season, so my frustrations do not stem from what I consider to be a bad game called today.

Sure, the broadcast froze half a dozen times to point out where the ball should have gone, but...

1. I know for a few, the ball was already out or coming out. It does no good to point out that the ball should have gone elsewhere when the ball is out. Did the ball coming out peel back the coverage? Maybe, maybe not. But in any case that assumes that...

2. Lamar feels like he has time to work through his progressions. As Romo would know, a quarterback has a natural progression. Like I said, with how poor the offensive line is, does Lamar feel confident that he has time work deep into his reads? Also, it's cute to point out when a player is open in a freeze frame and say it'd be a better option, but if that player is read four and Lamar saw read two was open, he's going to take read two, even if read four would net more yardage because Lamar hasn't worked there to know that. And that's every QB- no quarterback is going to hold the ball longer because a further read might be open and a better option than the open read they're currently on.

But again, I just have issues with the play calling. Roman doesn't scheme players open; instead he schemes them on top of each other consistently (looking at the interception off Bateman's hands against Cleveland...) and doesn't create these easy throws.

I said this elsewhere, but on the Johnson touchdown, the Steelers executed such a simple concept that just blew the Ravens coverage out of the water and it was a WIDE OPEN touchdown. When's the last time the Ravens had a touchdown that easy? The one I can think of was Brown against the Browns last year. I was listening to the Chiefs game and there was a play where it sounded like the Chiefs had three receivers run pick plays to scheme open another receiver and Collingsworth said something like, "How do you even defend that?" When was the last time we heard that about a Roman called play? Never?

And really, while the broadcast showed maybe half a dozen times where Lamar may have missed a read (refer to above for my issues with this freeze frame analysis that shrinks the view), we also saw half a dozen or more times where the broadcast showed the Ravens receivers were absolutely blanketed and couldn't get open.

Does Lamar need to play better? Sure. But Roman and the line aren't doing him favors.

And as far as the last play of the game is concerned, Andrews absolutely pulled up. Could the throw have been better? Sure. But given that Lamar had to make that throw while jumping to the side to avoid Watt, I thnk it was a good throw. Lamar seemed to expect Andrews to keep running full speed and if Andrews does, it's a walk in. On the other hand, more loft and Andrews still runs under it, so I'm not totally absolving Lamar, but it was on both.
Well a lot of the open reads he's missing would appear, at least on film, to be the hot reads off a blitz. So if that's the case, they shouldn't be any further down than 1-2 on his progression list.
I mean I see plenty of plays with wide open receivers. I would say pretty much the entire Denver game was a microcosm of that, and that's against a really good secondary. Maybe they're not TD plays, but that's just a product of where the ball is on the field.
And I would certainly hope KC would have better play design, because they have basically the best offensive play caller of their generation. Roman isn't that. But its unlikely you'll be able to convince Andy Reid to come coach here, so again, it boils down to who's going to come in and do better.

Regardless, when Lamar is missing open throws, or even if the receiver or TE isn't running the route correctly, that's kind of the beginning and the end. Scheming guys open still requires execution of the play itself, which we've been lacking at for awhile. Goes back to the Miami game. Everybody thought "o we didn't draw up plays to beat the blitz". All-22 showed we did. We just didn't execute on seemingly any of them. That's been the problem for weeks now.
 

29BmoreBird22

Staff Member
Moderator
Writer
Well a lot of the open reads he's missing would appear, at least on film, to be the hot reads off a blitz. So if that's the case, they shouldn't be any further down than 1-2 on his progression list.
I mean I see plenty of plays with wide open receivers. I would say pretty much the entire Denver game was a microcosm of that, and that's against a really good secondary. Maybe they're not TD plays, but that's just a product of where the ball is on the field.
And I would certainly hope KC would have better play design, because they have basically the best offensive play caller of their generation. Roman isn't that. But its unlikely you'll be able to convince Andy Reid to come coach here, so again, it boils down to who's going to come in and do better.

Regardless, when Lamar is missing open throws, or even if the receiver or TE isn't running the route correctly, that's kind of the beginning and the end. Scheming guys open still requires execution of the play itself, which we've been lacking at for awhile. Goes back to the Miami game. Everybody thought "o we didn't draw up plays to beat the blitz". All-22 showed we did. We just didn't execute on seemingly any of them. That's been the problem for weeks now.
As far as hot reads/routes go, that's something that is usually communicated pre-snap. Have to wonder how much of that is having to do with the Ravens always seemingly getting the play in way later than they should. Again, they always seem to be flirting with delay of game.

And sure- the Ravens will get open receivers because they have one of the fastest receivers in the NFL and a match up nightmare at tight end, but it just feels like in watching games that the players getting open is due more to the sheer physicality and winning on their routes than being schemed open for easy plays.

And then that would beg the question- are the Ravens receivers good enough to consistently win their match ups for an entire game? I would have thought the answer was yes, but they couldn't do it last night.

Not trying to absolve Lamar of all the blame, but I am firmly in the fire Roman boat.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
I’m not sure if the failed 2PT conversion is a microcosm of our season or not yet but it sure feels like it. You always knew from the start of the year that this year would be a challenge due to the early injuries we suffered; however, it just feels like it’s too much now. We’re down almost our entire starting secondary (Peters, Humphrey, Elliott), our dirty work DL player in Wolfe, key OL starters like Stanley and now Mekari as well as Cleveland, then you lost your entire starting RB corps before the season began, no Nick Boyle, etc. It really does feel like the wheels fell off the bus this time. You can never count us out and the rest of the NFL sucks just as much but hasn’t lost nearly as many guys as us so maybe there’s a chance we win in the special Super Bowl this year of whoever is last man standing but man does it feel like the hole is getting deeper
it feels like we sunk into the black hole and can't get out until 2022.
 

RavensMania

Staff Member
Administrator
i love this team but they're a hard watch even when things are going well
and it's hard to feel great about anything when week after week we've been so shafted by injuries
when we were winning the game I had a bad feeling that we were going to lose and I'm sure many people on the boards felt the same way. I agree with you, they have been a hard team to watch this season. I can't wait to get to the offseason and have a feeling we win one more game and miss the playoffs.
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
- I try to avoid disliking Ravens players, but Philips is getting on my shitlist. If Ogbuehi and all the PS tackles really are worse than he is, then I don't know what to say

he's not a tackle - he's playing there because no one else can
but the coaches have all said they'd rather he played guard for us (we just cant afford to be picky right now)

hard to put a guy on your shitlist who's playing out of position for the benefit of the team
 

rossihunter2

Staff Member
Moderator
My problem is I don't see an OC who will dramatically improve it, because Lamar is just missing too many easy throws and not hitting the routes he should. An OC won't fix that.
Lamar got called out directly like a half dozen times yesterday for simply not throwing the ball to the right read, or just missing the read entirely. Again, that's not coaching. I have zero doubt Roman and various other coaches are showing him on film where that ball is supposed to go. He's just not doing it.

He had several missed throws that need to be executed that could have altered the game. None more important than the 2 point conversion. The people putting that on Andrews are basically saying "yes, we expect you to make juggling one handed catches routinely", because the ball placement was anywhere in the stratosphere of being able to get two hands on it. And that's on the thrower, not on the receiver.

Roman has bad weeks like everybody else, but yesterday wasn't one of them. When I see Lamar executing simple throws and reads and progressions more consistently, and we see the offense get stymied, then I'll look to what the OC is doing. I didn't come out of yesterdays game thinking that Roman was the issue at all.

I think Lamar arguably played worse yesterday than Cleveland.

i was with you right up until that last line lol
lamar missed some reads and missed some throws yesterday but i really dont think he was that bad in totality especially when compared to the browns and dolphins games where he played far worse
 
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